Tennis Recruiting Appearance on Parenting Aces Show

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

No system is perfect. But Tennisrecruiting.net is the best system out there.

I am wondering if we can pay a fee to TRN for you to tell us what my son's ranking might have been if he were a sophomore. It can be done pretty easily, first find him in the master ranking list; then find the sophomore who is ranked just ahead of him. This virtual ranking may be interesting in our conversation with college coaches. My son beat several 5 star sophomores in the past 12 months and he would likely be a 5 star if he were a sophomore.

I wonder why that would be interesting to college coaches? I think most good college coaches can assess "projectibility" better from watching a kid play than being told a fictional ranking.

How would that conversation go? "Hi, Coach, I'm 140 as a junior, but if I were a soph I'd be 120, are you more interested in me now?"

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

That exactly why some people hold kids back a grade. When you (or I) who have smart kids, we would not want to do that. At least in my case, we save for college of their dreams instead. Why hold back a grade 'cause your smart child's birthday? Think about that high school kids need tons of AP classes to show for college admissions. Why hold the (smart) kids back then take tons of APs.
Does not make sense to me....unless parents already burned their college funds through tennis.

Don't mean to pick on you, but what does "tons" of AP classes mean? I've seen posts where parents are saying their kids took all APs as freshmen and are still taking APs as seniors. That would be anywhere from 32-40 AP courses!!

My experience is that most AP work begins junior year, some exceptions, and a kid who is taking a solid load might be taking 4 per semester, for a total of 16.

So when you say "tons", is that closer to 16 or 32-40?

[andfor]

More exaggerated fictional (truth is they are excuses) arguments. Yawn. The circle continues.

[tball2day]

I have noticed the "taking all APs" and find that misleading as well. Schools have limited access to APs through sophomore year, sometimes only allowing APUSH as a soph. Then in junior year it is typically 2-4, same senior year. That is the norm, but not for a serious tennis player. There could certainly be an exception, but rare. Any kid that is taking more than that probably isn't playing tennis at a competitive level, there wouldn't be time. Anyone claiming 4 APs as a freshman, well I think they are telling a fishing tale there. I think the top # for academic types is more like 8-12.

Also scholarship level tennis players need way less APs (the elite don't need any) than the kid without tennis. Parents expecting kids to carry a ton of APs on top of a ton of tennis are putting way too much on their kid.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

That exactly why some people hold kids back a grade. When you (or I) who have smart kids, we would not want to do that. At least in my case, we save for college of their dreams instead. Why hold back a grade 'cause your smart child's birthday? Think about that high school kids need tons of AP classes to show for college admissions. Why hold the (smart) kids back then take tons of APs.
Does not make sense to me....unless parents already burned their college funds through tennis.

His TRN ranking dropped over 100 spots when I updated his graduation year to 2014, about 2 years ago. He regained the lost ground in about a year and then made further improvement in ranking until last Thanksgiving. Being the youngest junior in his school, he still out-numbers everybody in APs. Tennis training has prevented him from participating in math and science competition. On the other hand, a heavy school load has also reduced his quality of tennis training. He could have been hitting 4 days instead of 2 days a week in a USTA regional training center, which is 50 miles away and takes more than an hour to get over. So, he spends two days training in a club close to home, 30 mins away. However, the next best kid there is a 2 star junior. Furthermore, the coach, although good at fitness training, just doesn't know enough what it takes for kids to win tournament. But we are learning everyday from his every win and every loss, from anybody on this board, from watching top junior in action, watching pros on TV on Youtube... As for college fund, we bought 4 years of Penn State credit a while ago (our best investment!. This is enough for only 3 Ivy semesters. Can not retire like GA....

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

I wonder why that would be interesting to college coaches? I think most good college coaches can assess "projectibility" better from watching a kid play than being told a fictional ranking.

How would that conversation go? "Hi, Coach, I'm 140 as a junior, but if I were a soph I'd be 120, are you more interested in me now?"

How about "I am 120 but could be 50 if I were a sophomore"? But I agree with you coaches are very smart in figuring this out by watching him in action and looking at his results

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

How about "I am 120 but could be 50 if I were a sophomore"? But I agree with you coaches are very smart in figuring this out by watching him in action and looking at his results

How about the Coach replying:

"OK, he can walk on and not play any matches as a freshman since everyone will be as old or older than him, and as a soph and up he will only play kids in a class lower than him. Of course I am not going to use one of my precious slots with the [Ivy] admissions office for a player like this."

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

Don't mean to pick on you, but what does "tons" of AP classes mean? I've seen posts where parents are saying their kids took all APs as freshmen and are still taking APs as seniors. That would be anywhere from 32-40 AP courses!!

My experience is that most AP work begins junior year, some exceptions, and a kid who is taking a solid load might be taking 4 per semester, for a total of 16.

So when you say "tons", is that closer to 16 or 32-40?

Ok, my son took Calculus AB in his freshman year, Calculus BC in Sophomore year, as his school won't allow him to take other APs in his first two years of high school. He finished BYU's American History in the summer. He is taking AP Chemistry, AP Physics, AP English Comp, Johns Hopkins' on-line Linear Algebra. He has already registered for AP Biology, AP English Literature, AP Spanish, AP Economics, AP Statistics for his senior year. He will likely have enough college credits for his freshman year if attending Penn State. His school is ranked top 5 in our state and at least half of the student graduated with 5-6 APs.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

How about the Coach replying:

"OK, he can walk on and not play any matches as a freshman since everyone will be as old or older than him, and as a soph and up he will only play kids in a class lower than him. Of course I am not going to use one of my precious slots with the [Ivy] admissions office for a player like this."

The coach probably would not say but surely think about it... But you convinced us to drop the idea of taking 6 months training and competing in Junior ITF or Futures after high school...

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

Ok, my son took Calculus AB in his freshman year, Calculus BC in Sophomore year, as his school won't allow him to take other APs in his first two years of high school. He finished BYU's American History in the summer. He is taking AP Chemistry, AP Physics, AP English Comp, Johns Hopkins' on-line Linear Algebra. He has already registered for AP Biology, AP English Literature, AP Spanish, AP Economics, AP Statistics for his senior year. He will likely have enough college credits for his freshman year if attending Penn State. His school is ranked top 5 in our state and at least half of the student graduated with 5-6 APs.

That's about 12 APs, not sure how many semesters. You're son is a very good student and you should be very proud of him, I am sure the whole Board can agree. Right?

I think this is about on a par for Ivy applicants.....and then of course there is the tennis. Maybe he can also take on full ownership of his own recruiting process?

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

The coach probably would not say but surely think about it... But you convinced us to drop the idea of taking 6 months training and competing in Junior ITF or Futures after high school...

That's cool. Go for that sophomore TRN ranking and let us know how it goes with the Ivy coaches when you discuss it with them.

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

Don't mean to pick on you, but what does "tons" of AP classes mean? I've seen posts where parents are saying their kids took all APs as freshmen and are still taking APs as seniors. That would be anywhere from 32-40 AP courses!!

My experience is that most AP work begins junior year, some exceptions, and a kid who is taking a solid load might be taking 4 per semester, for a total of 16.

So when you say "tons", is that closer to 16 or 32-40?

The point I tried to make was that parents hold back smart kids 1 years so the ranking goes up. Then parents try to get kids to take lots of APs in high school for college admission. Are you doing your kids favor??

How about support your kids in school. Support your kids in tennis. Save for their college education. See where it will lead to instead of focus on scholarship and hold your smart child a year or two behind.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

That's about 12 APs, not sure how many semesters. You're son is a very good student and you should be very proud of him, I am sure the whole Board can agree. Right?

I think this is about on a par for Ivy applicants.....and then of course there is the tennis. Maybe he can also take on full ownership of his own recruiting process?

You are absolutely right about this. Without his tennis, even with over 4 GPA, top 10 class, 5 in AP tests, high ACT and SAT scores, he will probably be wait-listed in an Ivy. Having read the NYT article and other writings about Academy Index, I am actually feeling good about his chances, if he does well in ACT next week, SAT in March, and SAT Chem in May (he already got 800 in Math II). I also hope he wins a match or two in Waco later this month, get in and win a couple of matches in Mobile next month.

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by tball2day

I have noticed the "taking all APs" and find that misleading as well. Schools have limited access to APs through sophomore year, sometimes only allowing APUSH as a soph. Then in junior year it is typically 2-4, same senior year. That is the norm, but not for a serious tennis player. There could certainly be an exception, but rare. Any kid that is taking more than that probably isn't playing tennis at a competitive level, there wouldn't be time. Anyone claiming 4 APs as a freshman, well I think they are telling a fishing tale there. I think the top # for academic types is more like 8-12.

Also scholarship level tennis players need way less APs (the elite don't need any) than the kid without tennis. Parents expecting kids to carry a ton of APs on top of a ton of tennis are putting way too much on their kid.

Totally agree.

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

You are absolutely right about this. Without his tennis, even with over 4 GPA, top 10 class, 5 in AP tests, high ACT and SAT scores, he will probably be wait-listed in an Ivy. Having read the NYT article and other writings about Academy Index, I am actually feeling good about his chances, if he does well in ACT next week, SAT in March, and SAT Chem in May (he already got 800 in Math II). I also hope he wins a match or two in Waco later this month, get in and win a couple of matches in Mobile next month.

I didn't say he would probably be wait-listed.

With all these academic credentials do you think he is smart enough to take full ownership of his college recruitment? It seems you are heavily involved for the parent of a Junior year student. The six months in Junior ITF, the sophomore TRN ranking, the thing about listing a bunch of schools on TRN, all the academic stats you list on a public message board.....why not trust him to make the calls on these things

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

The point I tried to make was that parents hold back smart kids 1 years so the ranking goes up. Then parents try to get kids to take lots of APs in high school for college admission. Are you doing your kids favor??

How about support your kids in school. Support your kids in tennis. Save for their college education. See where it will lead to instead of focus on scholarship and hold your smart child a year or two behind.

Agreed......

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

The point I tried to make was that parents hold back smart kids 1 years so the ranking goes up. Then parents try to get kids to take lots of APs in high school for college admission. Are you doing your kids favor??

How about support your kids in school. Support your kids in tennis. Save for their college education. See where it will lead to instead of focus on scholarship and hold your smart child a year or two behind.

Agree!

Mr. Bill, I would just forget about the "virtual ranking" as an excuse for not being a 5 star! We should not feel sorry for going to school a little early, taking heavy school load, playing up early and losing to bigger and better kids..... Should not use these as excuses... He just needs to continue to work hard on and off tennis court, improve his games and get his grades and scores....

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by Chemist

You are absolutely right about this. Without his tennis, even with over 4 GPA, top 10 class, 5 in AP tests, high ACT and SAT scores, he will probably be wait-listed in an Ivy. Having read the NYT article and other writings about Academy Index, I am actually feeling good about his chances, if he does well in ACT next week, SAT in March, and SAT Chem in May (he already got 800 in Math II). I also hope he wins a match or two in Waco later this month, get in and win a couple of matches in Mobile next month.

I think you had mentioned you are from Chinese background ( definitely not racial purpose intended). I read it somewhere (could be you who posted it) that Ivy schools have higher standard criteria for admission of Asian than other ethnic groups. It seemed you and your son already prepared hard for the process.

I would like to point out (you prob already know) Ivy scholarship is need based only. Make sure you are prepared to pay.

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

I think you had mentioned you are from Chinese background ( definitely not racial purpose intended). I read it somewhere (could be you who posted it) that Ivy schools have higher standard criteria for admission of Asian than other ethnic groups. It seemed you and your son already prepared hard for the process.

I would like to point out (you prob already know) Ivy scholarship is need based only. Make sure you are prepared to pay.

So if he is Chinese he must be rich?

I love this Board!!

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

I didn't say he would probably be wait-listed.

With all these academic credentials do you think he is smart enough to take full ownership of his college recruitment? It seems you are heavily involved for the parent of a Junior year student. The six months in Junior ITF, the sophomore TRN ranking, the thing about listing a bunch of schools on TRN, all the academic stats you list on a public message board.....why not trust him to make the calls on these things

I agree with you... He is writing emails and initiating conversation with coaches at the nationals. But I cannot just leave it to him completely, I still need to remind him about writing a few more emails... spending more time in preparing for ACT and SAT... watching a few more Pros in slow motion on Youtubes... instead of snapchatting with girls...