Looks like USTA is finding new ways to mess up in VA

[Local Girl]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

Any word on what happened at the Annual Meeting over the weekend?

Nationals has sent it back to the MAS for resolution because IT IS A SECTION PROBLEM.

Here's the update from the Virginia website:
http://virginiatennis.com/component/...ticle/252.html

[Angle Queen]

Originally Posted by Local Girl

Nationals has sent it back to the MAS for resolution because IT IS A SECTION PROBLEM.

Duh! (not at you, Local Girl....at MAS!)

Here's the update from the Virginia website:
http://virginiatennis.com/component/...ticle/252.html

Thanks. I'd been checking it earlier in the week and hadn't done so lately. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, if they end up in arbitration again...or what.

[JRstriker12]

Originally Posted by Local Girl

Nationals has sent it back to the MAS for resolution because IT IS A SECTION PROBLEM.

Here's the update from the Virginia website:
http://virginiatennis.com/component/...ticle/252.html

Thanks for the update!

[Local Girl]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

Duh! (not at you, Local Girl....at MAS!)

Thanks. I'd been checking it earlier in the week and hadn't done so lately. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, if they end up in arbitration again...or what.

Yep. MAS just made themselves look stupid and incompetent to Nationals. Clearly the solution is to have each of the member clubs vote on their own.

[Topaz]

I'm still very confused by the whole thing!

[Angle Queen]

I am bumping this thread to see if any of the other Obi-Wans in this crowd know where this matter stands. Weeks ago, I sent an email to USTA/VA through their website asking for an update. Last published one is from March...and the semi-annual meeting is fast approaching in September. Par for the course: I've not gotten any kind of response. Not even a standard, or to be expected....we're working on it.

Anyone know anything?

[Angle Queen]

Bump.

Attended a "Town Hall" Meeting this past weekend, ostensibly to get an update on the Changes and Challenges facing USTA/VA. I thought we'd be hearing more about the overall league restructuring but what we got was a highly scripted (IMHO) presentation of what's happening between USTA/VA and USTA/MAS. And it's not good. USTA/VA is definitely SOL.

USTA/National approved the By-Law changes (after punting them back to the section...not getting resolved and, hence, were approved). USTA/VA sued. And lost. Entered arbitration (over methods to offer/vote on an alternate slate of officers). And lost. Or certainly are losing.

Apparently, there's some March 31st deadline to come up with something but the two camps (USTA/VA and USTA/MAS...read USTA/DC & USTA/MD) are at complete and utter loggerheads.

I still don't fully understand the whole voting dilution/limitation to 40%...but here's the bottom-line, at least to me: Despite having 10 times the number of registered USTA players as DC, their voting capabilities are nearly equal.

This is ALL about THE MONEY. Clearly, USTA/VA (and MD to some extent) are subsidizing the USTA/DC District. And they want to keep it that way. Suggestions to divide Virginia (into a north/south and keep DC and MD) as well as create three more equally-sized districts with, e.g. Central VA/Metro DC/MD, were apparently rejected. USTA/VA can't do anything to themselves without getting approval of USTA/MAS....who apparently won't approve anything because it'll disrupt the cash-cow they are milking. We can't leave USTA/MAS -- either to become our own section or join forces with other states (like NC/SC/WV/TN) -- and are destined to stay just like we are. Crazy stupid and the very definition of Up A Creek.

I may have gotten a few of the nuances wrong...but the general flavor/consensus was that...we're screwed.

[JRstriker12]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

Bump.

Attended a "Town Hall" Meeting this past weekend, ostensibly to get an update on the Changes and Challenges facing USTA/VA. I thought we'd be hearing more about the overall league restructuring but what we got was a highly scripted (IMHO) presentation of what's happening between USTA/VA and USTA/MAS. And it's not good. USTA/VA is definitely SOL.

USTA/National approved the By-Law changes (after punting them back to the section...not getting resolved and, hence, were approved). USTA/VA sued. And lost. Entered arbitration (over methods to offer/vote on an alternate slate of officers). And lost. Or certainly are losing.

Apparently, there's some March 31st deadline to come up with something but the two camps (USTA/VA and USTA/MAS...read USTA/DC & USTA/MD) are at complete and utter loggerheads.

I still don't fully understand the whole voting dilution/limitation to 40%...but here's the bottom-line, at least to me: Despite having 10 times the number of registered USTA players as DC, their voting capabilities are nearly equal.

This is ALL about THE MONEY. Clearly, USTA/VA (and MD to some extent) are subsidizing the USTA/DC District. And they want to keep it that way. Suggestions to divide Virginia (into a north/south and keep DC and MD) as well as create three more equally-sized districts with, e.g. Central VA/Metro DC/MD, were apparently rejected. USTA/VA can't do anything to themselves without getting approval of USTA/MAS....who apparently won't approve anything because it'll disrupt the cash-cow they are milking. We can't leave USTA/MAS -- either to become our own section or join forces with other states (like NC/SC/WV/TN) -- and are destined to stay just like we are. Crazy stupid and the very definition of Up A Creek.

I may have gotten a few of the nuances wrong...but the general flavor/consensus was that...we're screwed.

Wow. Seems like a crappy situation. I just wonder if I'll see any changes once I actual get back to playing USTA?

[Cindysphinx]

Yes, Virgina sends all these whiny emails complaining how they are being mistreated.

Just because you are the biggest doesn't mean you get to run roughshod over everyone else. California doesn't get to boss Wyoming around just because California is bigger. If you are going to have a union, you have to look out for the rights of the minority.

I appreciate that USTA is tring to look out for the little guy a bit.

[Angle Queen]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Yes, Virgina sends all these whiny emails complaining how they are being mistreated.

I've yet to get one of those emails. In fact, I get no emails from USTA/VA.

Just because you are the biggest doesn't mean you get to run roughshod over everyone else. California doesn't get to boss Wyoming around just because California is bigger. If you are going to have a union, you have to look out for the rights of the minority.

California is so big, the state is split into two separate Sections. They are not, cannot, trample on Wyoming.

And the Mid-Atlantic Section is grossly misaligned. Last I saw of numbers, there was no other Section with such a disparity in the size of the individual districts. Please, Cindy, go back in this thread and look at some of the suggestions I put forth. They're some of the same ones (apparently) USTA/VA has suggested too. But to no avail. I don't know, and we weren't told, why certain elements of potential resolution were rejected. I think I've been a loud critic of USTA/VA's (sometimes) holier-than-thou attitude, but continuing to underwrite such a small District as DC just doesn't make either financial or functional sense.

I appreciate that USTA is tring to look out for the little guy a bit.

I think it's been a bit of heavy-handed politicing and mud-slinging by just a few who have caused all the commotion. Wish I knew what'd really started it all -- why a duly designated delegate...suggested an amendment at Nationals that the entire MAS BoD never had approved anyway. Literally 100s of thousands of dollars have been spent on both sides to litigate this matter. How many racquets or lessons could that have bought for kids with an interest...or public courts to be resurfaced? It's grandiose pig-headed power grabbing...by everyone involved.

/rant over

for now......

[Cindysphinx]

I admit I haven't kept up with the politics of it all. I play primarily in MD, with a bit of DC. If I never played another match in VA, I'd be fine with it. You can see why my initial instincts are not to care one whit how badly VA thinks it has been treated.

When I talked about California and Wyoming, I wasn't talking about USTA or tennis.

I was talking more generally about how our system of government is set up so that big states cannot overpower little states (e.g. each state gets two Senators regardless of size). There are legitimate reasons to do things that way. If you don't, the minority will be outvoted again and again and they will eventually cease to exist or will revolt.

In tennis, USTA feels it is important to be a national organization. To do that, they have to preserve the interests of the smaller states/leagues.

It sounds like they may have handled this correctly. VA is complaining but is not leaving. That suggests that USTA may have struck the right balance.

[Angle Queen]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

When I talked about California and Wyoming, I wasn't talking about USTA or tennis.

I was talking more generally about how our system of government is set up so that big states cannot overpower little states (e.g. each state gets two Senators regardless of size). There are legitimate reasons to do things that way. If you don't, the minority will be outvoted again and again and they will eventually cease to exist or will revolt.

In tennis, USTA feels it is important to be a national organization. To do that, they have to preserve the interests of the smaller states/leagues.

Please be careful here. Earlier in this thread, I talked of designing a power structure similar to our US structure: a senate...yes, with two equal votes per state regardless of size...but also including a house...with voting powers divided by the sheer population numbers. A balance seems prudent.

It sounds like they may have handled this correctly. VA is complaining but is not leaving. That suggests that USTA may have struck the right balance.

My point is...Virginia cannot leave. ANY change, including a redistricting or succession, must be approved by....you guessed it....MAS. Ain't happenin'.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

Please be careful here. Earlier in this thread, I talked of designing a power structure similar to our US structure: a senate...yes, with two equal votes per state regardless of size...but also including a house...with voting powers divided by the sheer population numbers. A balance seems prudent.

My point is...Virginia cannot leave. ANY change, including a redistricting or succession, must be approved by....you guessed it....MAS. Ain't happenin'.

I get it. I do.

I think VA just has to realize that USTA has spoken, complaints have not helped, a lawsuit was unsuccessful. I cannot believe this is still going on. I think we're done and done.

No, VA cannot leave. Which suggests that USTA struck a proper balance in its goal of preserving its "union."

[Angle Queen]

You're right. As a District. But personally, I am done.

The way to "leave" is to "not join." This is my last year of USTA play (for a variety of reasons). And had I not made a personal commitment to a good friend and long-time captain, I wouldn't even play this year. $90 for ~3 matches. No, thank you.

We've a local tennis association here that I'm going to throw my weight behind. I think ALTA formed because of a big disagreement with USTA and I think our area is big enough, strong enough, to do something similar. Maybe not at first, but I'm certain we can create enough playing, competitive opportunities...for a reasonable price and logistics...that it'll suit me just fine...for many years to come.

[Cindysphinx]

Duplicate . . . .

[Topaz]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Yes, Virgina sends all these whiny emails complaining how they are being mistreated.

Just because you are the biggest doesn't mean you get to run roughshod over everyone else. California doesn't get to boss Wyoming around just because California is bigger. If you are going to have a union, you have to look out for the rights of the minority.

I appreciate that USTA is tring to look out for the little guy a bit.

How were MD and DC being mistreated exactly? How did VA run roughshod over everyone else?

Why would MD care if VA split into North and South? Geographically, it makes a TON of sense. Heck, MD districts is closer to home for me than VA districts.

Whiny emails? You mean...ones full of facts?

What did VA ever do to you Cindy, jeez.

[Topaz]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

Suggestions to divide Virginia (into a north/south and keep DC and MD) as well as create three more equally-sized districts with, e.g. Central VA/Metro DC/MD, were apparently rejected. .

OMG...I would LOVE this! I'm very tired of celebrating a successful season by having to spend $ and time to travel to Huntington to play a post season tournament. Despite there being a majority of players in NOVA, not one post season tournament is held up here. Some players had a big talk with some of the officials at Tri-Sectionals a few weeks ago, and while they agree, it seems we are powerless.

As I mentioned to Cindy, I *love* playing MD districts, because I actually get to stay at home and sleep in my own bed. But for VA, I never get to do that, no matter which tournament it is.

North/South would make so much sense though...with NOVA, Loudoun, Shenandoah in North; and Richmond, VA Beach, Charlottesville, and a few other areas in there.

VA districts is a brutal tournament, too...we have to go through more just to get out of our state than some teams have to do to go to Nationals. And that disparity was very well reflected at Nationals this year.

And, while you guys were talking about analogies with the government, the one that I thought most appropriate is another based on population...electoral votes. Not every state has the same amount, because not every state has the same population. While I would not want to see any minority mistreated, I don't see how VA separating itself would hurt MD and DC...unless they need VA way more than some seem willing to admit.

Like Striker, I think it will be interesting to see how, if any, effect this has on us schmucks actually on the courts.

[JRstriker12]

Originally Posted by Topaz

OMG...I would LOVE this! I'm very tired of celebrating a successful season by having to spend $ and time to travel to Huntington to play a post season tournament. Despite there being a majority of players in NOVA, not one post season tournament is held up here. Some players had a big talk with some of the officials at Tri-Sectionals a few weeks ago, and while they agree, it seems we are powerless.

As I mentioned to Cindy, I *love* playing MD districts, because I actually get to stay at home and sleep in my own bed. But for VA, I never get to do that, no matter which tournament it is.

North/South would make so much sense though...with NOVA, Loudoun, Shenandoah in North; and Richmond, VA Beach, Charlottesville, and a few other areas in there.

VA districts is a brutal tournament, too...we have to go through more just to get out of our state than some teams have to do to go to Nationals. And that disparity was very well reflected at Nationals this year.

And, while you guys were talking about analogies with the government, the one that I thought most appropriate is another based on population...electoral votes. Not every state has the same amount, because not every state has the same population. While I would not want to see any minority mistreated, I don't see how VA separating itself would hurt MD and DC...unless they need VA way more than some seem willing to admit.

Like Striker, I think it will be interesting to see how, if any, effect this has on us schmucks actually on the courts.

Granted, I only made it to VA beach once for districts (was it districts? - or whatever playoff they held down there) - it was a fun excuse for a trip (though the weather was horrible on the days we had to play - non stop rain).

But for all you USTA junkies, I can see how making that sort of trip could wear thin each year.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Topaz

How were MD and DC being mistreated exactly? How did VA run roughshod over everyone else?

Why would MD care if VA split into North and South? Geographically, it makes a TON of sense. Heck, MD districts is closer to home for me than VA districts.

Whiny emails? You mean...ones full of facts?

What did VA ever do to you Cindy, jeez.

No, I don't mean emails full of facts.

I mean emails whining about VA losing power without giving me any reason why I should care. "Stand with us!" Without any explanation. Sent to someone like me who rarely plays in VA.

I don't care if Va split itself. I believe that VA routinely outvoted the smaller states on things like where Sectionals would be held. I figure if USTA is going to all this trouble to redistribute power, I bet there is a good reason other than hatred of VA.

Has anyone taken the time to understand this?