Silent Bans - A Real thing?

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by Vlad_C

Not at all, that is the kind of to-the-point info that we need to see more of. But if you read all the posts in this thread, the majority of them are nonsensical.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what comes out of that investigation in Australia, although I am pretty sure it is focused mostly on their rugby league.

As far as tennis is concerned, I don't think anyone with a little common sense doubts that there is doping in tennis.
What we really have to ask ourselves is why is the ATP not doing more to prevent it.
What we need is not silent bans, but rather catching one of the guys at the top, and making a public example out of him, tar and feathers and all. Something like an official 2-year ban, which would also hit hard where it hurts the most - in the bank account.

Are you serious? The ATP does not want to catch and expose its dopers, the sport would be ruined because doping is surely rampant at the top of tennis as it is in other professional sports. You would have a domino effect happen like you did in cycling where cyclist after cyclist was exposed as a doper. Was there one clean cyclist at the top? Better to look the other way and let the dopers dope and make sure none of it comes out publicly (aside from the odd low tier player whom they can afford to sacrifice as a doper) and let the sport prosper.

[Vrad]

Originally Posted by cc0509

Are you serious? The ATP does not want to catch and expose its dopers, the sport would be ruined because doping is surely rampant at the top of tennis as it is in other professional sports. You would have a domino effect happen like you did in cycling where cyclist after cyclist was exposed as a doper. Was there one clean cyclist at the top? Better to look the other way and let the dopers dope and make sure none of it comes out publicly (aside from the odd low tier player whom they can afford to sacrifice as a doper) and let the sport prosper.

Exactly. Again, look at cycling. After the doping scandals were exposed, its popularity plummeted.

No ATP president wants to be the one standing on a podium and telling the public that one of the top guys, with millions of followers, who brings in millions of dollars, is a cheat.

Forget the scandal etc. just put yourself in the ATP president's shoes and think about whether you want to even be anywhere near that press conference. Heck, I think many people would have a heart attack before the PC even begins.

Human nature would drive you to try and kill it quietly if possible.

[Vrad]

Originally Posted by Vlad_C

Not at all, that is the kind of to-the-point info that we need to see more of. But if you read all the posts in this thread, the majority of them are nonsensical.

Its only because of "nonsensical" comments like the ones in this forum, and the few in the popular media that doping is ever exposed. There is no incentive for anyone otherwise to expose doping. There are tremendous incentives to hide it.

Tennis forums these days almost exactly mirror cycling forums on the subject of doping prior to the doping revelations. Some people calling out certain athletes as dopers based on loose evidence (because no one has any incentive to collect, much less publicly release, stronger evidence) and others calling them nonsensical posters.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by Vrad

Exactly. Again, look at cycling. After the doping scandals were exposed, its popularity plummeted.

No ATP president wants to be the one standing on a podium and telling the public that one of the top guys, with millions of followers, who brings in millions of dollars, is a cheat.

Forget the scandal etc. just put yourself in the ATP president's shoes and think about whether you want to even be anywhere near that press conference. Heck, I think many people would have a heart attack before the PC even begins.

Human nature would drive you to try and kill it quietly if possible.

One day there is bound to be a big tennis player exposed, it has happened in every other sport, so it is only a matter of time and I am not talking about a Gasquet level player who used cocaine, I am talking about a big top player and his PED use exposed. It is tougher to expose these guys in tennis because it is an individual sport and secrets are not shared as they likely are in a team sport. Much harder to actually prove drug use for an individual player in tennis.

[Vrad]

Originally Posted by cc0509

One day there is bound to be a big tennis player exposed, it has happened in every other sport, so it is only a matter of time and I am not talking about a Gasquet level player who used cocaine, I am talking about a big top player and his PED use exposed. It is tougher to expose these guys in tennis because it is an individual sport and secrets are not shared as they likely are in a team sport. Much harder to actually prove drug use for an individual player in tennis.

I agree. And the ATP would be smarter to try and tackle this issue head on as early as possible, where they can dictate the terms, and look like the good guys, as opposed to having an investigative journalist find something and then the ATP having to play damage control.

However, human nature means that the ATP will continue to cross their fingers, and kick the can down the road.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by Vrad

I agree. And the ATP would be smarter to try and tackle this issue head on as early as possible, where they can dictate the terms, and look like the good guys, as opposed to having an investigative journalist find something and then the ATP having to play damage control.

However, human nature means that the ATP will continue to cross their fingers, and kick the can down the road.

I agree with everything you have said here.

[raging]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226573061294

looks like WADA are getting serious-hope this is across all sports, countries.

It might flush a few out & by association a few more.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by cc0509

One day there is bound to be a big tennis player exposed, it has happened in every other sport, so it is only a matter of time and I am not talking about a Gasquet level player who used cocaine, I am talking about a big top player and his PED use exposed. It is tougher to expose these guys in tennis because it is an individual sport and secrets are not shared as they likely are in a team sport. Much harder to actually prove drug use for an individual player in tennis.

Gasquet was cocaine. That's no scandal, at least not to me. The biggest doping scandals in tennis to date are:

Mariano Puerta (twice tested positive, at 2003 Vina del Mar and at the 2005 French Open, for the PEDs clenbuterol and etilefrine, respectively). Puerta served bans for 9 months the first time, and 2 years the second time.

Petr Korda (tested positive at 1998 Wimbledon for nandrolone, just 5 months after winning the 1998 Australian Open and having a negative drug test). Korda was banned for 12 months from September 1999, although he had already retired by then.

[raging]

Originally Posted by Vrad

Exactly. Again, look at cycling. After the doping scandals were exposed, its popularity plummeted.

No ATP president wants to be the one standing on a podium and telling the public that one of the top guys, with millions of followers, who brings in millions of dollars, is a cheat.

Forget the scandal etc. just put yourself in the ATP president's shoes and think about whether you want to even be anywhere near that press conference. Heck, I think many people would have a heart attack before the PC even begins.

Human nature would drive you to try and kill it quietly if possible.

This exact thing is happening in Australia with 1 football club.
At the press conference you could tell by their faces that they were/are all in shock/ denial. The president of that club never thought it would happen on his watch.

(Australian Football is a huge cultural institution in Oz, a bit like NFL in the USA.) Spectator numbers far outweigh tennis.)

Two days later the national body investigating corruption & doping has also unearthed cases of doping in several sports teams.

Sport is a billion dollar growth industry in most countries.
The AFL mirrors that growth & they are in damage control.
Australian Sport has been rocked & WADA are just about to get their funding
increased by the Australian Government.
John Fahey is on the warpath

[raging]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...me-commission/

Let's forget silent bans...even if they did exist, I think it is open season on corruption & doping. Even if everyone is corrupt, people still talk!

[Vlad_C]

I would not be surprised at all to see a big tennis-related scandal this year.
After Lance Armstrong, the soccer betting scandal in Europe, the new crime-doping scandal in Australia, it seems that they've finally decided to clean up house in sports around the world.
It is definitely time for the ATP to join in and do the same, with no fear and no shame, as far as the organization is concerned.

I really don't believe that in tennis the problem is quite as widespread as some claim. Otherwise we wouldn't see that much of a performance gap between some players and the rest of the field. (Or if it is, then clearly most of them are not getting the top-shelf PEDs...) Either way, we only need one famous player to be exposed and kicked out of the game - that should be enough of a deterrent for the rest of them, at least for a while. Silent bans do nothing to prevent others from using - we need a Lance Armstrong type of scandal to get the rest of the players to clean up.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Vlad_C

I would not be surprised at all to see a big tennis-related scandal this year.
After Lance Armstrong, the soccer betting scandal in Europe, the new crime-doping scandal in Australia, it seems that they've finally decided to clean up house in sports around the world.
It is definitely time for the ATP to join in and do the same, with no fear and no shame, as far as the organization is concerned.

I really don't believe that in tennis the problem is quite as widespread as some claim. Otherwise we wouldn't see that much of a performance gap between some players and the rest of the field. (Or if it is, then clearly most of them are not getting the top-shelf PEDs...) Either way, we only need one famous player to be exposed and kicked out of the game - that should be enough of a deterrent for the rest of them, at least for a while. Silent bans do nothing to prevent others from using - we need a Lance Armstrong type of scandal to get the rest of the players to clean up.

A Lance Armstrong style scandal means Federer, Nadal or Djokovic getting caught. That would be a disaster for tennis.

[Clarky21]

Originally Posted by Mustard

A Lance Armstrong style scandal means Federer, Nadal or Djokovic getting caught. That would be a disaster for tennis.

Who cares? If anyone is doping, including the top guys, it should be exposed and the player banned. The player should also have their titles stripped, and be forced to pay back all the money they won while doped up. It's not helping tennis to keep covering up for players who cheat while they continue to rack up titles and money.

[raging]

Agreed, last thing cycling needed was the Armstrong scandal: they are still recovering...
sponsors, teams, events, fans are reeling...

Just like the AFL will be in Australia once they start identifying players:
If the top player there gets named: the sport would be devastated.
Their Rugby League as well.

Be careful what you wish for.

WE know that there is doping & corruption in tennis,
my greatest hope for the sport is that the top 5 ATP players are clean.

[Subventricular Zone]

Originally Posted by Mustard

A Lance Armstrong style scandal means Federer, Nadal or Djokovic getting caught. That would be a disaster for tennis.

Well, the better suspicions about any tennis player are cleared, the better for the sport.