To 4.5 Guys: "Get Out And Stay Out!!"

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by spot

I am too lazy to go look but I recall when people looked at the teams that made nationals they were overwhelming using 4.5 guy/3.5 girl combinations.

I'm not too lazy.

I went back and looked at 8.0 mixed nationals for 2012. I looked only at the semis and finals, on account of how I don't have all day to do this.

I can give you the ratings pairings (ratings for 2012 before bumps) and how those various combinations did.

4.5M/3.5W = 1 win, 2 losses

4.0M/4.0W = 5 wins, 4 losses

4.5W/3.5M = 3 wins, 2 losses

What do you make of that?

[Fuji]

Since I'm not big into mixed doubles, I have to ask:

Would the most "fair" team be a 3.5M/4.5F team? Honest question, it seems like that and 4.0/4.0 would eliminate a lot of the issues you talk about, but I rarely hear people metion the 3.5/4.5 combo.

-Fuji

[spot]

Interesting- thanks for looking that up Cindy. The records aren't as interesting to me as the fact that just 3 of the 15 guys were 4.5 players.

[damazing]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Since I'm not big into mixed doubles, I have to ask:

Would the most "fair" team be a 3.5M/4.5F team? Honest question, it seems like that and 4.0/4.0 would eliminate a lot of the issues you talk about, but I rarely hear people metion the 3.5/4.5 combo.

-Fuji

I played against just such a combo this season and it was similar to what others have mentioned as the pattern for the 4.5/3.5 combination. The 3.5 guy was probably on the cusp of making 4.0 and the 4.5 partner was solid.

Some of this gets into the mindset of doubles - the best way to win with a weak partner (whether male or female) is for the stronger partner to take over the court. I've seen players position their partners on a small part of the net in the alley and cover the rest of the court, I've also seen partners take all balls they can reach, even going so far as when they are both back to run in front of their female partner to hit shots and try to cover the entire court. This is not how I like to play mixed and maybe my results with weaker partners would be better if I were to do this, but I don't think it would be fun for me or my partner if I played that way.

[tennis_ocd]

3.5 women come in different flavors. I'd think a quick and mobile 4.5 male matched with a slow, net savvy 3.5 with great hands a very tough pairing.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Since I'm not big into mixed doubles, I have to ask:

Would the most "fair" team be a 3.5M/4.5F team? Honest question, it seems like that and 4.0/4.0 would eliminate a lot of the issues you talk about, but I rarely hear people metion the 3.5/4.5 combo.

-Fuji

In past seasons, I didn't win much 8.0 mixed.

Despite that, I have faced three 4.5W/3.5M pairs. My record is 2-1. The one loss was when I had a 4.5 male partner, but the 3.5Ms serve was such a blast that neither of us could return it at all.

In our two wins, we simply sent the ball to the 3.5 guy as much as possible. If we got his serve back, we took the net and he would make errors trying to blast through us. The 4.5 women were 4.5s because they were steady, not because they were powerful or could cover the whole court.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by tennis_ocd

3.5 women come in different flavors. I'd think a quick and mobile 4.5 male matched with a slow, net savvy 3.5 with great hands a very tough pairing.

Mmmm, I don't think so. The 3.5W with a 4.5M doesn't need great hands. She just needs to guard her alley and block anything that comes her way.

What she does need is the ability to handle balls that get past her partner and to avoid panicking if she faces two at net.

I remember when I first started playing mixed that the women who seemed to do best were women who had solid groundstrokes/returns. I had better volleys, but this did me no good because volleys didn't help me hold my serve in mixed.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

In past seasons, I didn't win much 8.0 mixed.

Despite that, I have faced three 4.5W/3.5M pairs. My record is 2-1. The one loss was when I had a 4.5 male partner, but the 3.5Ms serve was such a blast that neither of us could return it at all.

In our two wins, we simply sent the ball to the 3.5 guy as much as possible. If we got his serve back, we took the net and he would make errors trying to blast through us. The 4.5 women were 4.5s because they were steady, not because they were powerful or could cover the whole court.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks!

It's just hard to imagine since here, competitively at least, we don't have the .5 rankings. It's all even numbers, and the only real way to get into tournaments and leagues (now) is at full level increments, such as 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 and Open. So at least in my experience, 3.0 doubles includes 3.0 and 3.5 players, so there isn't a lot of crazy blowouts. It's something I want to get more involved in though, even though I loath doubles haha.

-Fuji

[rdis10093]

I keep clicking on this thread by mistake because it has the word "guys" I keep thinking it is the guys only and best legs thread.......

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by rdis10093

I keep clicking on this thread by mistake because it has the word "guys" I keep thinking it is the guys only and best legs thread.......

-Fuji

[J_R_B]

Around here, I think the 4.0/4.0 pairings win more often than not, but there are certain 4.5 guys who are doubles specialists and cover a lot of the net that have a crazy record in 8.0 mixed (and usually 9.0 as well).

[cknobman]

Really reading through this thread you can see one common theme being brought up slanted one way or the other to support which side of the argument your on.

That theme is matchups and your strengths/weaknesses vs your opponents.

Regardless of the rating of the pair if you cannot exploit your opponents weaknesses and play to your strengths then you will not win.

Cindy your statistics show that regardless of 4.5/3.5, 4.0/4.0, 3.5/4.5 there is no overwhelming favoritism for one type over the other.

No matter how strong a 4.5 male player is his 3.5 female counterpart will have weaknesses. If you can exploit them them then you have a chance of winning.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by rdis10093

I keep clicking on this thread by mistake because it has the word "guys" I keep thinking it is the guys only and best legs thread.......

That is the only thread worth ..... reading

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by sureshs

That is the only thread worth ..... reading

Reading ???????????????

Are there words typed somewhere on that thread?

[RoachTennis]

I always feel at a disadvantage when i play 8.0 with a 3.5 woman. If i do what i need to do to win I look like a jerk, if i do whats politically correct then they isolate her and we lose! Its always about isolating the woman at any mixed level! She will always be the weaker player. Theres the formula to win at mixed. Isolate the woman!

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by RoachTennis

I always feel at a disadvantage when i play 8.0 with a 3.5 woman. If i do what i need to do to win I look like a jerk, if i do whats politically correct then they isolate her and we lose! Its always about isolating the woman at any mixed level! She will always be the weaker player. Theres the formula to win at mixed. Isolate the woman!

Hey Roach, did you get my email address? I wasn't able to get a hold of you through your profile.

Cheers,

-Fuji

[RoachTennis]

No Fuji, email is protnns8@gmail.com

[stapletonj]

4.5 is not the issue, the 6'6" Del Potro height is.

Cindy, I am 6'6" , my brother is 6'5 3/4"
(He's really 6'6" too, but he is a known sandbagger)

We are doubles partners. If I can get my brother to wear a skirt, can we play in your mixed league as a team?

Of course, neither of us is even close to 4.5, so we'd fit right in......

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by stapletonj

4.5 is not the issue, the 6'6" Del Potro height is.

Cindy, I am 6'6" , my brother is 6'5 3/4"
(He's really 6'6" too, but he is a known sandbagger)

We are doubles partners. If I can get my brother to wear a skirt, can we play in your mixed league as a team?

Of course, neither of us is even close to 4.5, so we'd fit right in......

Now that I would like to see!

[tennis_ocd]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Mmmm, I don't think so. The 3.5W with a 4.5M doesn't need great hands. She just needs to guard her alley and block anything that comes her way.

What she does need is the ability to handle balls that get past her partner and to avoid panicking if she faces two at net.

I remember when I first started playing mixed that the women who seemed to do best were women who had solid groundstrokes/returns. I had better volleys, but this did me no good because volleys didn't help me hold my serve in mixed.

A 3.5W guarding her alley/blocking anything that comes her way from a 4.0 guy is pretty much "great hands." A quick, active 4.5 guy can limit what gets back to his partner; extended 3.5W ground strokes isn't the winning formula for 8.0.