Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by Greg G

I believe a real racquet would alter the swing a bit (for the better). The pole is too light and whippy. But I felt it was a good tool for showing which way the butt was pointing.

Yes I shifted to a semi western, so I understand the racquet face should be more closed vs fed, more djoko like, and I try to feel that in court.

Speaking of grip, I may be a bit choked up on the forehand as well. Since you pointed that issue out on the backhand, I tried moving the forehand grip further out too, which seems to allow easier access to the ssc.

yes. you'll get more rhs and better ssc if you hold the racquet all the way on the end of the butt like this:


The problem I see starts with your takeback. If you want to do the roddick takeback that's fine but then you'll have to make the proper adjustments at the end of the takeback if you want to get into optimal position.

as it is now, this is not happening. everything looks good until about frame 5 or so. Ideally at this point you should just rotate forward with a loose wrist. As has been discussed previously and as shown by Heath and other instructional videos and articles the racquet at this point should go down and back.

Down and back. It goes down because your racquet head should be above the wrist OR when you rotate forward you are lifting up.
It goes back and points behind your body because you have a loose wrist and the racquet head is pointing at that 45 degree angle we discussed before.

But, this is not what is happening in your sequence here or in your vids. After image 5 and on through to image 10 your racquet head actually goes up! You are using your wrist (when it should be loose and neutral) and you are manually supinating your forearm (when it should be neutral or in other words just maintain it's pronated position in image 5). This kills your ptd.

So in other words after your "mint" position in frame 5 you begin to do an old school "loop takeback" like chico9166 does. You do this using your wrist and your forearm which means they won't be loose and they won't be in pat the dog position as they were in frame 5 so you won't get racquet lag or ssc or very little at most.

When you reach your frame 5 position then you should just rotate and go forward. frames 6-11 are unnecesary and detrimental.

Also, I guess it's personal preference but your Roddick takeback doesn't really help because when you reach frame 5 position the racquet head is pointed, imo, too far forward towards the net. From that position the head has to get behind the wrist so that's probably why you do the extra loop take back steps. If you do less roddick then your racquet head position when frame 5 is reached will be pointing less towards the net like fed,djoko, nadal, safin, stosur, kohlschreiber, tsonga etc. etc.. in other words: EVERYBODY. that roddick position is no good.

look at this fed vid: When he reaches your frame 5 position his racquet is not pointing towards the net. He immediately rotates forward. His racquet goes down and back. Not up, over, down and sideways as yours does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tabqbHhrfho

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by chico9166

Dude, I teach this stuff..Have for many years. This is pretty elementary.

The fact that you don't know what's going on between 7,8,9,10 tells me all I need to know about your knowledge on the subject and corrective measure needed for the OP. I'll make it real simple for you....The arm cannot be rotated externally when the racquet is pulled....It really gets down to that...If you don't know what that means, or can't identify it on video, than look it up. At any rate, do not talk about how stretch shortening works (as some sort of know it all, expert) when you don't understand this necessary position..In the OP's case, it really is the crux of the problem.

I feel sorry for your students then. I've seen your posts. Off base most of the time.

[Greg G]

Perhaps my fear of the 'wrist roll to supination' caused me to overcompensate to the other extreme. I don't trust myself not to roll under pressure from the regular position. I don't plan to keep it this way forever though. Will work on gradually moving it back. Perhaps a few more hundred (thousand more likely) balls will let me work it out.

Now be nice to each other, hehe. Eyes on the prize

[Greg G]

Looked at earlier, more relaxed shots...is this somewhat better?

http://youtu.be/bUxjh-9tm3c

[Cheetah]

fear of injury?

if you eliminate those steps past frame 5 then you will be able to control spin and trajectory just from the way you setup in frame 5. An angle change here, a mod there and it will move the racquet during the forward change in different ways giving you more or less spin or varying heights over the net etc. It's easier and less steps and less subject to brake down.

[Greg G]

No, fear of presupinating (reverting to old technique) under pressure. Anyway, will work it out slowly. BTW, a better sample swing is a few posts above

Originally Posted by Cheetah

I feel sorry for your students then. I've seen your posts. Off base most of the time.

Too funny, you are the guy that asked last year how to hit a windshield wiper forehand. Look at the position of the arm between 8 and 9 when the torso is starting to unwind..He's not "manually supinating anyting". blah,blah. You have no idea what your talking about..

Btw, I'm quite certain many of kids over the years could rifle balls off your chest..just saying.

[Greg G]

Eyes. On. Prize.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by chico9166

He's not "manually supinating anyting". blah,blah.

lol. do you teach anyone besides your hamsters?
his arm is clearly supinated in frame 10. it's supinated before forward movement... or 'mint' as you would say.
his arm is pronated in frame 5. it's supinated in frame 10. How did that happen if he didn't 'manually' do it? magic? time travel?

Originally Posted by Cheetah

lol. do you teach anyone besides your hamsters?
his arm is clearly supinated in frame 10. it's supinated before forward movement... or 'mint' as you would say.

Are you serious, his arm has clearly moved forward from 9 to 10..Again, you have no idea what your talking about..Stick with your hacks on saturday morning.

[Greg G]

Hey Cheetah, the picture sequence on this page is different from the previous page, in case you missed it. Carry on

Just figured it out, you don't know what supination is...it would as if he were hold cup of soup..Does that help?

The pronation/supination occurs between 9 and 10 when the arm starts moving...If you can't see the change in upper arm and forearm angle than i don't what to say.

[Cheetah]

Lol. A few posts ago you said everything was mint. We can all see your lost.

Greg, new sequence looks good. What speed are you swinging at there?

[Cheetah]

You posted a new video? Not showing up on my phone. Only pics. Will look in 1 hr

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Lol. A few posts ago you said everything was mint. We can all see your lost.

Greg, new sequence looks good. What speed are you swinging at there?

lol. the pronation/supination is supposed to occur between 9 and 10

[Greg G]

New sequence was with loose easy swing. Previous was max acceleration.

[Cheetah]

Yea that looks better.

A couple of things:
maybe this is just because you are shadow swinging but in that last vid you are starting to rotate forward while you are still in the takeback phase. Your torso is opening up while you are still moving your racquet back. Your arm should be already as far back as it's going to go before you start to rotate the torso. A pro's arm is back is usually all the back as far as they are going to take it and it's dropping down to get under the ball before they start to rotate. Look at the last vid of fed i posted for an example.

Also, your arm is slightly 'disconnected' still. What you want to get is 'racquet lag', not 'arm lag'. when you rotate forward your arm is too far behind your body so you are losing leverage and power their. maybe control too. Pause your vid somewhere in the 6 sec range. You can see your upper arm is behind your body. That upper arm segment should be pretty much right on the side of your body. There should be just about a straight line from your shoulders down to your elbow. That upper arm moves with the body.

Look at this fed vid. See how his upper arm is moving exactly in line with his torso and shoulders? They are 'connected'. The forearm and racquet lag behind. Not the upper arm. This way lets you use the shoulder and pectoral muscles for power at contact. When your arm lags behind like that you lose that connection with those large muscle groups. Kind of like how chico's imaginary hamster students are taught.

fed connected arm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAE6AcxAGdA&t=15s

it's easier to see here with novac:
djoko connected arm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me1tzm1nnWk

This is also facilitated by 'leading with the elbow'. The elbow goes before the forearm. You can see fed leading with the elbow although it's harder to see because of his straight arm but it's there. You can see it easier with bent arm fh's like djoko.
Also when your arm is disconnected it causes you to rotate too much before contact. Look at your vid. Your chest has past facing the net and is starting to face towards the left side fence when you make contact. This is because you are 'disconnected'. Look at fed and djoko. They are facing the net or just before facing the net when they make contact. I guess this is a leftover from your dancing days.

[Greg G]

The first thing: I was doing a series of shadow swings, kinda like the 'infinite loop' thing n VTA, maybe the timing got messed up there. But I did notice it, and will look out for it on court.

The upper arm disconnect: ok will keep it aligned. So loose arm, not upper arm. Perhaps that's why even if I shorten the take back, the swing still feels long sometimes.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by Greg G

The first thing: I was doing a series of shadow swings, kinda like the 'infinite loop' thing n VTA, maybe the timing got messed up there. But I did notice it, and will look out for it on court.

The upper arm disconnect: ok will keep it aligned. So loose arm, not upper arm. Perhaps that's why even if I shorten the take back, the swing still feels long sometimes.

yea that sounds good. you post your first video when you started this thread haha.