One handed backhand thread. Put up or shut up. Let's see video of people's 1hb

[Mahboob Khan]

Wow. Good idea. The only problem is that in my case I annot access YouTube, it is banned here.

But I will post here a link from the ITF site www.oncourtassessment.com in which I am no. 2 in the world in the ITN Skill Testing Mens 60+:

http://www.oncourtassessment.com/lea...=0&countryid=0

I hope this satisfies you.

Mahboob Khan

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

He may have a good one. That doesn't mean he can describe how to hit a good one. On the internet at least.

He says that you should start rotating your torso... then... - wait for it - start to slow down the rotation of your torso all within the two seconds (if that) between realizing you're going to hit a backhand and actually contacting the ball. If that's not over-complication I have no idea what over-complication is.

i agree that you have no idea. It's the same on the forehand. Here's a vid explaining the same principle the fh. (rotation stopping/slowing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O1Lw-2FaMw&t=4m55s

and here it is in action with federer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIiz2QJyjM0

and in case you plan to say 'but the backhand obeys different laws of physics than a forehand!!" here is the same info regarding the backhand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqBEE...ADDE36D56DF3F6

dimitrov http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6p5ZdGR4hU&t=2m8s
gasquet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghnFZCtkBX0 - opens up more but rotation does the same thing (slows) and then arm whips

if you have a good kinetic chain as each link in the chain completes it slows/stops and the energy is transferred to the next link. you can continue to rotate some but the ball is already gone by that point. It's the same on the serve also.

[always_crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

i agree that you have no idea. It's the same on the forehand. Here's a vid explaining the same principle the fh. (rotation stopping/slowing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O1Lw-2FaMw&t=4m55s

and here it is in action with federer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIiz2QJyjM0

and in case you plan to say 'but the backhand obeys different laws of physics than a forehand!!" here is the same info regarding the backhand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqBEE...ADDE36D56DF3F6

if you have a good kinetic chain as each link in the chain completes it slows/stops and the energy is transferred to the next link. It's the same on the serve also.

But in no phase of the stroke should you ever think: 'oh well, I'm approaching contact now, better slow down the rotation of my torso'. If you're consciously trying to slow down the rotation of your torso, you're never going to hit an explosive shot. Your forehand/backhand is going to be a tentative piece of fvcking sh!t.

If you slow down your torso's rotation, you're contracting the opposite muscles that produced the stroke. I.e. if you're a righty hitting a backhand, your torso is going to rotate clockwise. You should never contract the core muscles that would cause your torso to rotate anti-clockwise before you've even made contact with the ball. Your stroke will never have power if you do.

You're not the only one spouting this over-complicated drivel about slowing down various links in the 'kinetic chain' in order to hit a decent groundstroke, and it's been bandied about this forum for ages.

All I know is that when I started ignoring that stuff, I started using the kinetic chain properly (because everything flowed when I didn't think about it) and my groundstrokes improved a lot.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

But in no phase of the stroke should you ever think: 'oh well, I'm approaching contact now, better slow down the rotation of my torso'. If you're consciously trying to slow down the rotation of your torso, you're never going to hit an explosive shot. Your forehand/backhand is going to be a tentative piece of fvcking sh!t.

If you slow down your torso's rotation, you're contracting the opposite muscles that produced the stroke. I.e. if you're a righty hitting a backhand, your torso is going to rotate clockwise. You should never contract the core muscles that would cause your torso to rotate anti-clockwise before you've even made contact with the ball. Your stroke will never have power if you do.

You're not the only one spouting this over-complicated drivel about slowing down various links in the 'kinetic chain' in order to hit a decent groundstroke, and it's been bandied about this forum for ages.

All I know is that when I started ignoring that stuff, I started using the kinetic chain properly (because everything flowed when I didn't think about it) and my groundstrokes improved a lot.

as i said before there's no need to think. you're over-complicating my argument and putting words in my mouth. it's technique. are you telling me fed and djoko's rotation doesn't stop in the vid i posted? there's no constricting. did you even watch the vids i posted? it's explained in there how it works. Yea... i'm the only one on this forum talking about kinetic chain... ok.

[RoddickAce]

My backhand sucks, any advice would be great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIphnOEutso

This video was uploaded around a year ago, but it probably honestly hasn't improved much.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool

My predictions:
I know I have a sound one-handed backhand. I'm guessing Cheetah has a good one. I think BoramiNYC has a good one.

Cheetah does indeed have a good one. I beat on it often.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by rkelley

Cheetah does indeed have a good one. I beat on it often.

lol. that's it mister. just wait till later this week.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by rkelley

Cheetah does indeed have a good one. I beat on it often.

Originally Posted by Cheetah

lol. that's it mister. just wait till later this week.

Great. I made him mad.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by RoddickAce

My backhand sucks, any advice would be great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIphnOEutso

This video was uploaded around a year ago, but it probably honestly hasn't improved much.

It doesn't suck.
I was able to stop your vid at some key moments.
I think you should straighten your arm much earlier. Your arm elbow is extending through the stroke, a la fed, but most ppl teach against this.
sometimes when you make contact your elbow is still bent and extending.
It should be a straight solid structure at contact. you'll get more leverage/power this way. If you straighten the elbow earlier you'll have better consistency because of less 'moving parts' near contact so less chance of breaking down under pressure if that makes sense.

Also you let go of the racquet with your left hand too early. This means you are swinging the racquet with the right arm from behind your body, around and then forward all on it's own so it's harder to control that way. Look at the pros, they hold that racquet in their off hand until the racquet has started going straight towards the ball. like this:
fed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3Pi1KIkT8&t=3m
almagro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvG4oRaydkA
dimitrov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uVCOQY50OA

also sometimes you hit with an open face. I'd recommend trying to get it to neutral at least and maybe slightly closed if possible.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by TTech321

I didn't know this was taught cause I'm self taught, but I do slow down the rotation just before I contact. What happens is to me it seems like I'm "transferring" the momentum from my body rotation to my arm and into the ball. It's kinda of like I'm holding my breath right before I drive through my backhand, I'll try to put together some backhand clips of mine into a video and see i can show that.

From a physics sense that's exactly what you're doing. It's conservation of momentum, in this case mostly angular. It's one the key principals behind the whole idea of the kinetic chain. Now what you consciously think about is a whole other discussion, but it should be happening regardless.

[marosmith]

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool

In the past month their have been many threads about how to hit a "modern" one-handed backhand. Most of them have horrible game wrecking advice like: attack the ball with your elbow, rotate into your contact point, roll your wrist for maximum supination. etc.

Advice of this kind is horrible, will wreck people's games, and is being given by people who cannot hit one-handed backhands. Those of us who actually have tennis experience know this.

Sound one-handed backhands are built on advice like: Prepare early, turn sideways, get your front shoulder under your chin, get under the ball, Reach out towards your target and hit through the ball, stay sideways at contact. Keep your arm relaxed, long follow-through ever time, stay with the shot, take the ball early, make contact out in front, etc. etc.

So It's time to put up or shut up. All of us who are posting advice, let's all go out and video our backhands, and post the videos. Then let's see who actually knows how to hit a backhand.

I will post a video of my backhand. It's cold here, but I should be able to get outside in the next week and videotape some groundies. I just got a digital camera, and plan to videotape my shots on Wednesday, and have the video posted by sometime Thursday.

For the first couple days of the thread we can speculate who can actually hit a one-handed backhand, and make predictions about the results. Hopefully in the next few days the videos will come rolling in.

It's time for people to put up or shut up!

I agree with everything you said other than take the ball early. Watching these clay court one handers play the last couple weeks I think they would disagree too. Doesn't seem like one handers take it early much anymore other than Fed and a few others. The 2 hander seems more suited for taking it early in the modern game IMO

[marosmith]

Originally Posted by The Bawss

No offence but being able to hit easy sitters which are being fed to you just behind the service box isn't any kind of measure of one's backhand. Despite this, you hit a whole bunch long.

Shut up. Go away.

[marosmith]

Originally Posted by psv255

Here's a before&after, followed by more "after."

Before: No lessons, no advice, just hitting with other people and against the wall.
After: This is after watching xstf's series on the backhand and random tidbits from TW. Tips that helped most were "shoulder under chin", buttcap to ball, and the timing of weight transfer from back to front foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJkaC4MvXgk

Very nice!

[marosmith]

Originally Posted by RoddickAce

My backhand sucks, any advice would be great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIphnOEutso

This video was uploaded around a year ago, but it probably honestly hasn't improved much.

It doesn't suck so bad in terms of the motion itself. You seem to fall backwards and have your weight falling back or on your heels on nearly every shot. So if you can get our footwork and balance down I think you will have a fine shot.

[Relinquis]

Originally Posted by TTech321

I didn't know this was taught cause I'm self taught, but I do slow down the rotation just before I contact. What happens is to me it seems like I'm "transferring" the momentum from my body rotation to my arm and into the ball. It's kinda of like I'm holding my breath right before I drive through my backhand, I'll try to put together some backhand clips of mine into a video and see i can show that.

But do continue your heated argument, it's extremely amusing

have you tried exhaling as you drive into the ball? might help with timing. i think archers exhale when they launch arrows as holding their breath hurts their accuracy.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by marosmith

I agree with everything you said other than take the ball early. Watching these clay court one handers play the last couple weeks I think they would disagree too. Doesn't seem like one handers take it early much anymore other than Fed and a few others. The 2 hander seems more suited for taking it early in the modern game IMO

Fair enough.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by luvforty

my hitting partner - used to hit the 1hbh with the conventional wisdom above... he had an aha moment after I told him to upper cut/ side cut the ball..

conventional wisdom don't always work... some may do more harm than good.. e.g. 'reach out towards target'.... that has arm/body separation written all over it.

I'm shocked that advice worked for your friend. Umm...... On the one hander you don't want your arm to be contorted close to your body. Go look at pictures of Federer or any other one-hander's contact point.

I really don't think you know anything about groundstrokes. Post a video of your one-hander. Your little pearls of wisdom aren't making any sense to me.

[always_crosscourt]

Originally Posted by marosmith

Shut up. Go away.

haha, amen

[BevelDevil]

Cheetah and Always_Crosscourt:

Always_Crosscourt uses a SW bh grip, so given this I can see how he's generating power by rotating through contact with no body deceleration.

There are also select occasions when I see pros, esp. Wawrinka, appear to do the same (usually on deep balls hit right at him).


However, for typical pro 1hbh (and most good ones), the shoulders decelerate through contact while the arm continues moving. That's why the "textbook" 1hbh advocates stopping the shoulders perpendicular to the net (like Federer). And that's why the left hand often flares out before contact. While many pros open up their chests more, the principle is still holding true.

The typical 1hbh is basically a "pull" stroke, like Federer's forehand.

The easiest analogy to this principle might be swinging a long axe with both hands. All the "oomph" takes place well before contact, and the momentum of the axe head is what carries it to the target. Perhaps that's why 1-handers seem to prefer heavy rackets.

On the 1hbh, maximum acceleration of the handle should be achieved well before contact, thus no further body rotation is useful.

No conscious thought is needed to do this on the 1hbh. Just an ingrained body checking motion (left arm out), proper weight transfer, and perhaps just an intuition about "throwing" the racket at the target.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by BevelDevil

Cheetah and Always_Crosscourt:

Always_Crosscourt uses a SW bh grip, so given this I can see how he's generating power by rotating through contact with no body deceleration.

There are also select occasions when I see pros, esp. Wawrinka, appear to do the same (usually on deep balls hit right at him).


However, for typical pro 1hbh (and most good ones), the shoulders decelerate through contact while the arm continues moving. That's why the "textbook" 1hbh advocates stopping the shoulders perpendicular to the net (like Federer). And that's why the left hand often flares out before contact. While many pros open up their chests more, the principle is still holding true.

The typical 1hbh is basically a "pull" stroke, like Federer's forehand.

The easiest analogy to this principle might be swinging a long axe with both hands. All the "oomph" takes place well before contact, and the momentum of the axe head is what carries it to the target. Perhaps that's why 1-handers seem to prefer heavy rackets.

On the 1hbh, maximum acceleration of the handle should be achieved well before contact, thus no further body rotation is useful.

No conscious thought is needed to do this on the 1hbh. Just an ingrained body checking motion (left arm out), proper weight transfer, and perhaps just an intuition about "throwing" the racket at the target.

I agree. good post.