Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside

[Greg G]

Ok you guys got me excited, so I dropped a pair off at the stringer's today. TB 17 mains with N.Vy 16 crosses (natural) @52 all around. They had N.Vy 17 only in white which would totally clash lol.

Going back to technique- there's a new blog entry at the tennisspeed site comparing the Fed and Djokovic forehands, discussing the role of the shoulder, and straight vs bent elbows. Quite a read, and a real mouthful to digest.

[NLBwell]

Greg G
I haven't read most of the previous 24 pages, but I hope you know that your forehand swing is all arm and 2/3 of your body is working against you - probably because you try to hit open stance when you are already in position to step into the ball and then jump out of position.
Here are your pictures - the same thing happens in the video:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps2718d449.jpg
Look where your legs, hips, and abs are in the second picture. You have already rotated away from the ball. You are just standing on your back foot. See in pictures 3 and 4 how you have to reach to get to the ball because you have stepped away from the ideal contact point. You have opened your hips and chest when you stepped away from the ball. You can see from picture 2 to 6 that there is almost no movement of the legs, hips, and abs and you are still just standing on your back foot. There is no weight transfer and no rotational movement.
If you want to gain some energy from any part of your body below the shoulders you must either 1) step into the ball as you are lined up to do - which is generally what most pros would do in that situation or 2) as you step away from the ball, keep your chest and hips parallel to the flight of the ball until the racket is starting to move forward and use the stored rotational energy (like winding up a top) to rotate your upper body during the stroke and pull the chest, shoulders, and arm around. (Move your left foot to the spot in picture 2 while keeping the rest of your body in the position in picture 1 - you should feel the rotational stretch through your legs, hips, and core.

It would be easier, better, and more efficient to just step into the ball and swing (in whatever way you please) instead of trying to make it a more difficult open-stance shot. Open stance allows you to get to the ball 1/2 step sooner and recover back another 1/2 step sooner. Right now, you are moving the extra 1/2 step all the way to the ball and then jumping away from the ball. A good player should know how and when to hit open stance and more closed stance.

[Greg G]

NLBwell,

Thanks for posting. I'm trying to wrap my head around it now. I know I have issues moving to the right that I haven't addressed yet.

Fixing the image link to facilitate discussion:



Older set, from the back:


The issue is that my last step is a step away from the ball with mt left foot, right? Meaning I was too close, and the last step should be with the right...? These balls were fed straight to me, so I needed to move out of the way for some, but I believe there is something to your suggestion. Again, lemme think about it first. Thanks again!

Greg

[NLBwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3-EZCPn9yc

For the open stance forehand, look at the initial starting point in the video listed above. If you line up perpendicular to the net like you are about to hit the ball - then drop your front foot to where a line between it and your back foot is parallel to the net and keep your hips and above in the same position, you will feel "wound up" - a rotational stretch from legs to shoulder. Then you release the stored energy into body rotation.

In the case where the ball is fed right into your strikezone, just go ahead and hit it in your neutral stance. You don't need to add complexity to try and get an open stance.

[Greg G]

OK. Not a good day. Wet and rainy, the court I got was very damp and had a leak, yeah that kind of day.

Warming up seemed OK, was trying out the new strings. Let's talk about that first. Started with my usual Black Widow 17 @ 52/50. Nice easy spin, good pocketing, good depth. Followed with TB 17 full bed @52/50. More spin, less pocketing. Felt more crisp, but balls fell short. Then switched to the hybrid TB 17/ Babolat N.Vy 16 @ 52/52. Interesting, it did seem to have the same spin as TB full bed, without the harshness, and good depth. But it was harsher than the full bed of Black Widow. For now I'm not convinced I would prefer it over the BW, which I used in the practice set, because my arm started complaining. Maybe it'll loosen up after a few more days, but I definitely want to string it looser next time (the hybrid). BW is nice, but a bit underpowered...maybe I should try that in a hybrid.

Anyway, here's the warmup. I noticed that I got a better PTD but the result was I got a lower trajectory...and I mean lower! Was hitting the tape and occasionally even the boottom of the net! I think the contact point needs to be further forward.

http://youtu.be/8ks4qfvco6Y

Played a set where I couldn't hit a forehand to save my life...felt totally discombobulated trying to find my groove on the forehand wing. Even the winners don't look good on video. The only bright spot was I saw a glimpse of my first serve coming back, had a few good service games with an ace, some unreturnables, and some sitter returns, and no sitting duck second serves! So it wasn't a total loss...still it was 6-2 to I guy I had already started beating...I wasn't taking control of the points today.

http://youtu.be/B1MLkp7ntLQ

Afterwards, I still had the hit the net syndrome on the forehand...ball was spinny with less pace than I expected Out of mixed curiosity/frustration, I tried to hit one with an Eastern grip and wow it sailed up into the wall

http://youtu.be/jtVbbL-cyGo

Hopefully it's just one of those days...

[Greg G]

What a difference a day makes! Was hitting much better today. More relaxed swing and cleaner hitting. Played a set...hard fought loss to the same guy 6-4, but much closer. Just a few brain farts killed some break points for me, but he did say I was striking the ball really well today. Must be the birthday luck

http://youtu.be/aFXtb5tayi4

[TomT]

Greg G, I'm really enjoying working my way through this thread. Very instructional. You're clearly a serious student of the game willing to do the work necessary to improve.

I really like the trajectory of your forehand shots from the back view. Very nice. Mine, on the other hand, are all over the frickin' place. Hopefully I will learn something from this thread.

Interesting also reading about you having to deal with the various injuries ... which I've had my share of also.

Looking real good. Best wishes for continued improvement.

[Cheetah]

nice. looks good.

[Greg G]

Thanks Tom! I do enjoy the process of learning and breaking down my old forehand. The videos do help me make more efficient use of my limited practice time. I find the battle is more of keeping it simple and not letting old habits come to the surface. Sometimes, I catch glimpses of the forehand I'm striving for, like today. The good thing is, these glimpses are coming a bit more frequently now.

Working hard at the gym too, to improve the stamina/agility. It really all breaks down when I can't set up early/in time.

Hey Cheetah! Last vid OK? NLBWell?

EDIT: Oops I saw you posted already

My forearm feels like it's on fire after the string demos! Just had to hit today because of the bad taste in the mouth I had from yesterday's poor show on court. Yeesh. Few days rest in order.

Oh! I did apply the upper arm principle to the serve, making sure to pull the butt of the racquet to contact...and I found my slice slider out wide! Hit 2 aces and got a few popup returns!

[Greg G]

Today's matchplay footage. I know I need to work on shot tolerance, I pull the trigger too early at times. The points where I have more tolerance seem to work better. I was better at dictating play, just made some bonehead shots, gotta work those out with more match play.

http://youtu.be/XdiMY8cvorw

PS Look at this point! WTF was that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdiMY...ailpage#t=161s

[Cheetah]

how come you get ball boys?

[Greg G]

One of the few perks here in the Philippines. Was funny when I stayed in Hawaii in 2001. First time out on court I was just standing there, and my partner said WTF are you doing, pick up the balls!

Wait, that's all you got from that video?

[Cheetah]

lol. nice running fh winner

[Greg G]

Did you see the point where he went lefty to hit this crazy angle passing shot on the dead run? Nuts...

[TomT]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Today's matchplay footage. I know I need to work on shot tolerance, I pull the trigger too early at times. The points where I have more tolerance seem to work better. I was better at dictating play, just made some bonehead shots, gotta work those out with more match play.

http://youtu.be/XdiMY8cvorw

PS Look at this point! WTF was that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdiMY...ailpage#t=161s

I enjoyed watching this Greg. Quite a bit better than my usual standard play. Good rallies, movement and shot placement. You both hit some really nice shots, but it did look like you hit more and were capable of dictating play. You hit some really nice serves also. Very nice service motion. My tentative and totally unqualified opinion is that, minus the "bonehead shots" you should be playing at a pretty darned high NTRP level. Much higher than I'll ever get to anyway. What, by the way, is your NTRP level?

[Greg G]

Thanks Tom! I honestly have no idea. The only time I played over there (USTA Hawaii league team tennis), I was rated 3.5. That was back in 2001, the only time in the 20 year hiatus from tennis that I played semi regularly.

The serve coming back is helping quite a bit! I'm not defensive at the start of the point, as I was in earlier videos I posted. The guy I play is a 'trainer' here, kinda like a professional hitting partner I guess. His strokes look simple but he is like a wall, and can run all day (because he does).

[Greg G]

After 2 weeks of rest, my forearm feels much better. Back with Black Widow full bed... I may try this in a hybrid soon, or perhaps try some nat gut.Rested the arm, but killed the body and legs at the gym using some of the exercises here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfvJz0Ocr4A

Anyway, I decided it was time to incorporate movement and hitting patterns into my routine. I did a 4 ball pattern, with 3 inside out rally balls, followed by an inside in kill shot.

http://youtu.be/Gi-675sw11A

This is the view from the back. Later I switched to alternating inside out and inside in rally balls, with an inside in kill shot. I was in the middle court, so I didn't practice inside out kill shots (so I didn't spray balls into the adjacent courts).

http://youtu.be/qcnK-PVKn_Q

After 30 minutes of this, I switched it to a semi live ball drill. I was pretty ***ged out at this point...

http://youtu.be/rooKI3spsgc

Anyway, how's my movement and technique coming along?

[Cheetah]

main issue now is you are arming it. not hitting through it. no weight transfer into the ball. contact point is too late and you're legs are not loaded and not involved in the shot. You kind of do this little hop skip thing while you hit so the whole lower half of the kinetic chain is gone so you're hitting with upper body/arm only. seems a little better on inside in shots. shots are good but wimpy and not enough spin because you're not hitting through it so maybe the strings don't have enough dwell time. there's no deep pop sound. no weight.

look how far out in front fed hits... and this is an inside out shot where he hits less out in front than an up the middle or cc shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiW_j-nPEZk&hd=1&t=1m04s

btw here is a shot i took of fed at indian wells.

[Greg G]

Yeah I knew that was coming That's one of the reasons i wanted to start adding movement into the drills. I'm getting there just in time again, not early enough to set up. So I need to get there fast enough to be able feel the weight loaded on the right leg...

Oh and a lot of the balls in my basket are getting soft so they sound bad. <-- Lame excuse

Anything to work on foot pattern wise? Would a crossover step get me there (and back) faster?

Awesome shot. Must go to IW someday. Were they selling the orange Nike wristbands?

[Cheetah]

Not sure about the foot patterns. I'd have to see a live ball vid but crossover is generally the way to go. much quicker.

I don't know if they were selling those or not. We didn't go into any shops because we were mesmerized by the tennis allllll day. We only stopped watching for 10 mins just to grab a slice of pizza.

Ian from essentialtennis.com was there filming. He's going to have some excellent footage.