Get off the courts!

[pkshooter]

Originally Posted by TTMR

I'll bite. What would have been the 'classy' alternative?

Walk away and call the city.

[Mauvaise]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

I don't believe anything this guy is saying, this is a TROLL post. Public courts are used by pros to give lessons everywhere I've ever lived or traveled.

I know in Phoenix, pros are not allowed to use public courts to teach lessons. I don't know if there are signs posted to that effect.

I believe there are a couple locations where the park has hired a pro to teach clinics (free), but at those locations, the signs are posted 24/7 with the times and court numbers.


I voted the first option, but that's not exactly how I feel. My option wasn't there.

I firmly believe in first come/first served for public courts. With the caveat that the Park Rules are followed. If there are time limits, no teaching pros allowed, etc.

Given that I probably wouldn't have forced my way on the court, but I would follow up with the Parks department to find out if this pro is breaking the rules and reported him.

[omega4]

Again, the way I see it, public tennis courts are "first come, first served", regardless of whether they have a maximum time limit or not, so long as you are actually USING the courts (you can't claim "phantom reservations" unless it's expressly allowed).

When the OP arrived, the court in question was NOT being used, despite what the tennis coach claimed. So the OP had every right to use that court.

In fact, I think the tennis coach only irresponsibly escalated the confrontational situation by sending CHILDREN onto the court while the OP was using it. The tennis coach was wrong on 2 counts: first, to escalate the situation; second, to use children to escalate the situation.

This is why I think the OP did the right thing to not back down by surrendering use of the tennis court.

If it were my children at the tennis clinic, I would have been mad at the tennis coach for recklessly involving children in a needless escalation of "hostilities" and would have reported the tennis coach to authorities and his manager (if any).

[Spokewench]

We have limited courts in our area. There is only one club that you can be a member of if you don't live in the neighborhood that has courts. Mostly people play the public courts. Because we have so few courts, you can pay and reserve courts. So, I reserve courts for leagues some times and a tennis pro teaches out of one set of courts and reserves courts. In the circumstances you state, he would send you down a 1/2 a mile to two other courts to see if you could play there; or he would let you play until he was ready for match play for his kids and then he would kick you off.

We all work together.

[Govnor]

As with most situations like this, I find it hard to pass judgement either way without actually being there to see exactly what happened. My gut feeling would be unless he had a large number of kids, why does he need all 4 courts in the first place?

[IA-SteveB]

Originally Posted by Govnor

As with most situations like this, I find it hard to pass judgement either way without actually being there to see exactly what happened. My gut feeling would be unless he had a large number of kids, why does he need all 4 courts in the first place?

You have a good point. It think it was pretty easy to pass judgment on the OP just because of they way he presented the situation here and clearly defined himself as someone who welcomes classless confrontation. At least it didn't escalate to violence but I have a feeling it could have given the coach and OP's need to one up each other with the sophomoric behavior. That would have been a great message to the kids above and beyond what they already learned up to that point. I wish there would have been a real adult there who could have mediated and shown these kids the proper way to handle the situation. Not saying it could have been me, but obviously sharper people were needed. I have a hard time getting past the poor execution on both sides when there are children involved ... no matter what. The issue of who had rights to the court is VERY secondary at this point.

[TTMR]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

Sounded like the kids were just using half of the court, since you just seemingly invited yourself onto the other half of the court. Waited for the kids to lose control and retrieve their balls, then "claim" the court to yourself.

1) Kindly ask the kids and the coach if you guys can use half of the court to rally and warm-up until they're done, EVEN if you had to wait until 11.

2) I wouldn't mock the coach.

3) If the coach is really being a jerk about it, be the bigger man and walk away.

4) There are kids there, be a positive example. Don't inspired them to be booting people off the court.

5) If I had a friend with me, I wouldn't embarrass him along with myself.

Just to name a few.

I've been reading a lot of criticisms like this, that I should have behaved in a more respectful manner in the presence of the children.

I am not a believer in this hyper-protectionist mentality we as a society seem to have regarding children, that they must be shielded from any and all hint of conflict and danger. We don't live in a fantasy world, and children shouldn't be led to believe that we do. Being thrown out into the world at 18 completely unprepared for the depressing reality of life is detrimental; significantly more detrimental than the supposed threat of jungle gyms and TV/video game violence.

Pray tell, what would have been the message to the kids, had I just conceded and left after the coach made his case? The message would have been that, to get what you want, all you have to do is throw your weight around (literally and figuratively, in this coach's case) and people will give in. That is not a lesson that is wise or moral to disseminate to our youth.

If anything, they were better off witnessing someone willing to stand up for what is right, rather than backing down in the face of adversity.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

If that's how you think then don't defend your kids when they're bullied at school. Don't sort it out with the parents. If your kids come crying to you, don't pay them any attention.

Actually, don't have kids period. They'll turn up to be like your classless self and fight fire with fire to make matters worse.

[tennis tom]

TTMR, call the city rec dept and find out what their agreement is with this instructor. Did you see a sign posted with his hours--did you look for one? If there is none, that would be easy enough to rectify. In this day and age, if there was a sign posted, it may have been vandalized and ripped off. In that case the instructor should show you his agreement or explain it to you.

Folks, you do realize we are only getting one side of the story here don't you?

It would be helpful if the OP would do his homework in this regard before bringing it here--but it's a good warm-up for my keyboarding.

[slowfox]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Folks, you do realize we are only getting one side of the story here don't you?

Unfortunately, whales...um, I mean rotund coaches, can't type. We gotta take OP's word. LOL

[tenniscasey]

Originally Posted by TTMR

I am not a believer in this hyper-protectionist mentality we as a society seem to have regarding children, that they must be shielded from any and all hint of conflict and danger. We don't live in a fantasy world, and children shouldn't be led to believe that we do. Being thrown out into the world at 18 completely unprepared for the depressing reality of life is detrimental; significantly more detrimental than the supposed threat of jungle gyms and TV/video game violence.

Pray tell, what would have been the message to the kids, had I just conceded and left after the coach made his case? The message would have been that, to get what you want, all you have to do is throw your weight around (literally and figuratively, in this coach's case) and people will give in. That is not a lesson that is wise or moral to disseminate to our youth.

This is, without question, the dumbest thing I will read today. At this point it's clear you're just looking for a reaction from people.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by TTMR

I've been reading a lot of criticisms like this, that I should have behaved in a more respectful manner in the presence of the children.

I am not a believer in this hyper-protectionist mentality we as a society seem to have regarding children, that they must be shielded from any and all hint of conflict and danger. We don't live in a fantasy world, and children shouldn't be led to believe that we do. Being thrown out into the world at 18 completely unprepared for the depressing reality of life is detrimental; significantly more detrimental than the supposed threat of jungle gyms and TV/video game violence.

Pray tell, what would have been the message to the kids, had I just conceded and left after the coach made his case? The message would have been that, to get what you want, all you have to do is throw your weight around (literally and figuratively, in this coach's case) and people will give in. That is not a lesson that is wise or moral to disseminate to our youth.

If anything, they were better off witnessing someone willing to stand up for what is right, rather than backing down in the face of adversity.

Exactly.

Kids need to learn that there are people in the world who behave like huge tools.

[maggmaster]

Yea I don't know about this. I have definitely driven around town to find a court without lessons or a team practice on it. I belong to an indoor club precisely so that I can kick people off when my time starts. I don't like the fact that this guy sent kids down to take a court from adults after they were already on it but I also think this whole thing should have been handled with just the coach leaving the kids out of it.

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

Yes, public courts are often reserved for lessons, drills, etc. There should be a sign posted on what time and for what purpose the courts are reserved. Sometimes, though, the parks department is too unorganized to actually post the appropriate sign. The guy may very well have been teaching a parks department class for which he got paid little, if anything, because he wants to help kids learn tennis. Maybe he is just doing this on his own for free to help the neighborhood kids.

Of course you are far too important to take the needs of some lowly ragamuffins into account.

I have been on both sides of this issue. As a player looking for courts to use and I see an organzied class, I inquire with the person in charge about using free courts or when his class is done. No need to get nuts. I also run summer tennis classes that use public (High School) courts and have never had a problem explaining to players that I have these courts from time a to time B.. these days of the week. I also have to explain because of insurance reasons I can't allow them to play next to my little 5-6 year olds. Most folks get that. The only major issue I have ever had.... (of course USTA players).. trying play league matches on courts at the same time I am having High School Team practice. They try to claim the courts..and I ask them for a building use permit... I get what??? These are public courts!!! Of course they are when the High School Team is not using them. So.. it goes.. just because you think they are for public use.. you better check with the HS or the parks department before you get all worked up and make an Ahole of yourself in front of a bunch of young adults and parents.

If I was giving a private lesson on a public court.. and players asked to use the court I would give it up as in most cases, giving private lessons on public courts is very much only allowed when there is an open court.

[gplracer]

Did you ever find out if the parks department allows this guy to reserve courts or not?

[goober]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

I don't believe anything this guy is saying, this is a TROLL post. Public courts are used by pros to give lessons everywhere .

Public courts are used by tennis coaches to give lessons. But this is not allowed everywhere. In my area public community courts cannot be reserved and tennis coaches cannot use them for giving private lessons. Tennis lessons are only at public tennis centers and private community courts and clubs.

This of course doesn't stop them from trying to do so. I have had some coaches giving private lessons kicked off community courts over the years. I usually get challenged. I simply point to signs if that are usually posted "No private lessons" . If they make some BS claim they have a contract with the city. I say I know you are lying to me because I know what the laws are. I have the phone numbers of the local rec office in my cell phone. I offer to call and verify that the coach has the courts reserved and they are allowed to give private lessons on public courts. So far 100% of them leave after that.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Whether the courts can be used or not for coaching, one can still handle the situation with class.

[dcdoorknob]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Exactly.

Kids need to learn that there are people in the world who behave like huge tools.

Heh, exactly the same thing I was thinking as I was reading it. (well, except if I had typed out exactly what I was thinking, the board filters would have certainly been activated in some way. )

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by gplracer

Did you ever find out if the parks department allows this guy to reserve courts or not?

^^^^^ Really it all boils down to that, doesn't it?

Regardless of whether the OP had the right to claim the court or not, the OP isn't exactly making himself sympathetic by describing the coach in such a derogatory way. The guy's physical appearance has nothing to do with it. And neither does his coaching style.

[SteveI]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

^^^^^ Really it all boils down to that, doesn't it?

Regardless of whether the OP had the right to claim the court or not, the OP isn't exactly making himself sympathetic by describing the coach in such a derogatory way. The guy's physical appearance has nothing to do with it. And neither does his coaching style.

The OP has a bit to learn about common sense and good manners. Pushing all those kids off the courts was a real class act. Guess he really wanted play tennis. The instuctor being 300 lbs had nothing to do with anything. The OP then went home and kicked his dog..