How serious are we ??

[coaching32yrs]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

Coach what do you think the difference is between our top Nationals vs top ITf's , how hard they hit the ball , how much topspin , how big they serve , quality of forehands and back hands , slices , speed of players ,ect ???

I purposely didnt mention what I believe the answer is but would love to see what your thought is .

Tough to say. I am not an expert on ITF's. However, I have seen the #1 ITF in the world play a few years ago and it was like, you have to be kidding me. He was weak. Collinari from Argentina or US, depending which week it is, dismantled him. I saw Schneider play an incredibly tough ITF player from Japan, lefty, trains at IMG who was not top 10. Guy played unbelievable defense. You can't put 100% faith in the ITF rankings because guys travel a lot and "buy" points. When Sock won US Open juniors I don't think he even had an ITF ranking! He and Kudla were clearly the class of the field that year. I will go on record and make a prediction: Sock will be higher ranked than Harrison in a couple years. Sock has the big weapon- the forehand. Harrison is really great and I love his game- but he doesn't have the big weapon off the ground. As far as TCF's theory: the thing is you have to look at the data first than come up with the theory. You cannot have the theory than look for the data to back it up- because you are looking at the data with bias. I learned this 46 years ago in Sociology 101.

[Alohajrtennis]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

I will go on record and make a prediction: Sock will be higher ranked than Harrison in a couple years. Sock has the big weapon- the forehand. Harrison is really great and I love his game- but he doesn't have the big weapon off the ground.

You are not going very far out on a limb here. That could happen by Sunday.

[Bash and Crash]

Originally Posted by Alohajrtennis

You are not going very far out on a limb here. That could happen by Sunday.

Hasn't Sock already topped out? I mean he is 20, been a pro for two years, and grinding on the challenger tour, playing longer than 12 years, so no more improvement.........

[TCF]

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[coaching32yrs]

Originally Posted by TCF

Thanks for providing another player who fits my theory perfectly. Sokc just reached his 12 year mark and is doing great. Like I said several times, after 12 years the improvement will continue due to maturity and experience, but be at a much, much slower pace.....Jack Sock to a tee.

APPROXIMATE CEILING, AFTER THAT THERE WILL BE IMPROVEMENT BASED ON MATURITY AND EXPERIENCE. Feel free to look up the word approximate if thats throwing you.

I said that you gauge where a player is after 10-12 years of tennis only. After that there is improvement due to experience and maturity.

If after 12 years your player is ranked top 200 like Sock is, its not a stretch to see his improvement getting him to the top 75.

And I said if after 12 years your player is lucky to play D-3 tennis, perhaps his improvement after that will not scream top 75.

Sock started tennis at aged 8, he is now 20....12 years....and after his 12 years he has been as high as #149. That is an amazing result and obviously encourages him to keep going for the money.

Other players start at age 8 and after their 12 years they could not get past the first round of a futures.

See the difference? After 12 years some players have results that are encouraging....some do not. Seems quite simple to me.

BTW coach I take offense to your comments on the data thread that I have become nonsensical. In all things in life, except tennis, you would be corrrect. Somehow in tennis I am very logical, sensible ,and accomplished as coach, parent, and player. Would be better if it were the other way around.

[Bash and Crash]

Originally Posted by TCF

Thanks for providing another player who fits my theory perfectly. Sokc just reached his 12 year mark and is doing great. Like I said several times, after 12 years the improvement will continue due to maturity and experience, but be at a much, much slower pace.....Jack Sock to a tee.

APPROXIMATE CEILING, AFTER THAT THERE WILL BE IMPROVEMENT BASED ON MATURITY AND EXPERIENCE. Feel free to look up the word approximate if thats throwing you.

I said that you gauge where a player is after 10-12 years of tennis only. After that there is improvement due to experience and maturity.

If after 12 years your player is ranked top 200 like Sock is, its not a stretch to see his improvement getting him to the top 75.

And I said if after 12 years your player is lucky to play D-3 tennis, perhaps his improvement after that will not scream top 75.

Sock started tennis at aged 8, he is now 20....12 years....and after his 12 years he has been as high as #149. That is an amazing result and obviously encourages him to keep going for the money.

Other players start at age 8 and after their 12 years they could not get past the first round of a futures.

See the difference? After 12 years some players have results that are encouraging....some do not. Seems quite simple to me.

Ah, yes genius. But using approximate, is like saying I kinda of, sorta, maybe think, that these players have a shot at making it. Leaves a lot of room if wrong and lot of room to be right. Didn't you say Sock was too slow, and didn't have all the tools to be top 100, a year or two ago?

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by Bash and Crash

Hasn't Sock already topped out? I mean he is 20, been a pro for two years, and grinding on the challenger tour, playing longer than 12 years, so no more improvement.........

I believe as Sock learns to train at a higher level off court your gonna see him start to improve and the real tennis is on its way , that is if he can get the right people around him as I saw him 2 weeks before the Aussie with and injured ankle and the coaches had him on the court practicing and he couldn't move , two weeks later he is at the Aussie retiring absolutely ******** management of a player .

Right now as of last year Socks 12 year plan started for real he now has about 8 good years left on that 12 yr deal as the average retirement age is around 28 yrs old .

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by Bash and Crash

Ah, yes genius. But using approximate, is like saying I kinda of, sorta, maybe think, that these players have a shot at making it. Leaves a lot of room if wrong and lot of room to be right. Didn't you say Sock was too slow, and didn't have all the tools to be top 100, a year or two ago?

Yes he did i remember he said Sock should have went to college !!!!

Bash this guy is one of the biggest push on college and how you should go hopefully "to get educated" and with his math and logic he as a rep makes me want to have my kid fail in life haha !!

[Bash and Crash]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

I believe as Sock learns to train at a higher level off court your gonna see him start to improve and the real tennis is on its way , that is if he can get the right people around him as I saw him 2 weeks before the Aussie with and injured ankle and the coaches had him on the court practicing and he couldn't move , two weeks later he is at the Aussie retiring absolutely ******** management of a player .

Right now as of last year Socks 12 year plan started for real he now has about 8 good years left on that 12 yr deal as the average retirement age is around 28 yrs old .

Yeah, I like Sock, good kid, talked to him at Tiburon Challenger, I think fitness and focus, and as you say better advice will be needed. My original post was tongue in cheek, because I figured Sock was right on the "12 year window theory." Now off to work, and I'm going to see who's older than 10-12 and send them home, they missed the window......

[Alohajrtennis]

Originally Posted by Bash and Crash

Yeah, I like Sock, good kid, talked to him at Tiburon Challenger, I think fitness and focus, and as you say better advice will be needed. My original post was tongue in cheek, because I figured Sock was right on the "12 year window theory."

I have met him as we'll, good kid, good head on his shoulders, very likeable, sort of an anti Ryan Harrison. I think fitness and focus both must have come into play last nite, no reason Lopez should have been able to break him three times in that last set. I think he must have been tired and making some poor choices. I suspect he and Lopez will play again Tuesday in Del Ray and if I were to bet I would bet n a better result for Jack.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

Tough to say. I am not an expert on ITF's. However, I have seen the #1 ITF in the world play a few years ago and it was like, you have to be kidding me. He was weak. Collinari from Argentina or US, depending which week it is, dismantled him. I saw Schneider play an incredibly tough ITF player from Japan, lefty, trains at IMG who was not top 10. Guy played unbelievable defense. You can't put 100% faith in the ITF rankings because guys travel a lot and "buy" points. When Sock won US Open juniors I don't think he even had an ITF ranking! He and Kudla were clearly the class of the field that year. I will go on record and make a prediction: Sock will be higher ranked than Harrison in a couple years. Sock has the big weapon- the forehand. Harrison is really great and I love his game- but he doesn't have the big weapon off the ground. As far as TCF's theory: the thing is you have to look at the data first than come up with the theory. You cannot have the theory than look for the data to back it up- because you are looking at the data with bias. I learned this 46 years ago in Sociology 101.

There is no difference on the "level" of the top 10 US ranked players and the top 10 ITf players , the only difference I saw was they for the most are all planning on going pro so their "mindset" is a bit different, as for our kids are "well i am not going pro for at least 5 years".

TCF has theory's so do the evolutionist , He just makes it up as he goes and I know why , he has a girl who probably has beginner strokes not a Jan Silva by any means or he would post videos , she cant win like DB and his sister did at 8 yrs old dominating age groups ahead, while his daughter cant win 1 match and with all the time and info he post its frustrating for him to be on here so wants to bring everyone else down !!

We need to answer TCF with sensitivity and understanding and we should all be encouraging to him until his daughter can finally post a win in practice or a real match .

So I am asking all posters on my behalf to really be sensitive towards TCF .

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by Alohajrtennis

I have met him as we'll, good kid, good head on his shoulders, very likeable, sort of an anti Ryan Harrison. I think fitness and focus both must have come into play last nite, no reason Lopez should have been able to break him three times in that last set. I think he must have been tired and making some poor choices. I suspect he and Lopez will play again Tuesday in Del Ray and if I were to bet I would bet n a better result for Jack.

the problem is our players dont start seeing real fitness till college but they dont have time to take it to super fitness between class time ,homework, social life, practice and rest time , then they head on the tour have half *** results because they are not in elite shape , it is very simple math ,

[Alohajrtennis]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

the problem is our players dont start seeing real fitness till college but they dont have time to take it to super fitness between class time ,homework, social life, practice and rest time , then they head on the tour have half *** results because they are not in elite shape , it is very simple math ,

The discipline required to maintain the fitness level to compete on the futures/challengers circuit, even with generous support, is enormous. The constant traveling, third world food, lack of facilities. It can, and must be done to be successful, it one of those things that will separate the boys from the men.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by Alohajrtennis

The discipline required to maintain the fitness level to compete on the futures/challengers circuit, even with generous support, is enormous. The constant traveling, third world food, lack of facilities. It can, and must be done to be successful, it one of those things that will separate the boys from the men.

Some of my friends from my days with the MMA still are involved with DB's training to have him on a physical level that will and currently does equal men , some of the videos I posted from the OB on youtube watch carefully you can see DB's strength and fitness just overwhelming the kid from Croatia , this is my dream for American tennis is to get our up and coming players as serious about their training early like the foreigners .

[coaching32yrs]

Coach #1: Is it possible in training to develop great flexibility along with strength and stamina. It seems on the pro tour that Djokovic has unbelievable flexibility. He doesn't appear muscular, but obviously has world class strength as well. Is that flexibilty just the genes? If it can be devloped how come none of the other pros seeem to have found the secret?

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

Coach #1: Is it possible in training to develop great flexibility along with strength and stamina. It seems on the pro tour that Djokovic has unbelievable flexibility. He doesn't appear muscular, but obviously has world class strength as well. Is that flexibilty just the genes? If it can be devloped how come none of the other pros seeem to have found the secret?

Most of the others that haven't found it can blame themselves , their team . Flexibility is something gained , do others have it naturally yes , my player last year could barley reach past his shins this year he grabs the bottom of his feet , I have spent the last 3 to 4 months going more in depth about stretching and were seeing improvement from what we have learned and "applied ".

As for your 1st question yes it is , we have benched as much as 180 and right now he is lucky to throw up 150lbs but were not trying to make those gains right now , we have been as fast as a high 4.6 in the 40 as of right now pretty slow at around 4 .8 but were not trying to gain there right now , It just comes down to discipline and work !!

[TCF]

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[TCF]

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[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

TCF has theory's so do the evolutionist .

Yeah, I saw this too. It explains a lot. I read this to say that TCF's "theories", and evolutionism, have similar degrees of validity.

If I am wrong, I am sure I will hear about it.

[TCF]

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