Why doesn't every pro serve and volley on their first serve?

[mikeespinmusic]

Better luck next time? there was nothing to win... your opinion is flimsy and heresay evidence.. you clearly like having the last word. I look forward to not reading your response... thats where I keep going wrong...you're in my ignore list there's your prize...

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by mikeespinmusic

Better luck next time? there was nothing to win... your opinion is flimsy and heresay evidence.. you clearly like having the last word. I look forward to not reading your response... thats where I keep going wrong...

I offered no opinion other than to point out obvious inconsistencies in your posts. I often whine about the courts being slowed down, but I am no conspiracy theorist, I won't stand by claims without evidence and (credible) sources.

I do love having the last word. I will likely keep it up indefinitely, even passing this sacred torch to further generations if necessary.

I look forward to you reading this post and pretending that you didn't (if I could only be so lucky).

[fullpolyserve&volley]

Originally Posted by NadalDramaQueen

I offered no opinion other than to point out obvious inconsistencies in your posts. I often whine about the courts being slowed down, but I am no conspiracy theorist, I won't stand by claims without evidence and (credible) sources.

I do love having the last word. I will likely keep it up indefinitely, even passing this sacred torch to further generations if necessary.

I look forward to you reading this post and pretending that you didn't (if I could only be so lucky).

I can still serve and volley. You guys should just hit the gym :P I can't say his website was legit though... but this year's Aussie Open had so many ads between points... it really dragged on

[Tennusdude]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

That may be the biggest reason why pros are no longer serving and volley. Polys are allowing balls to dip much more than before, picking up balls off of your ankles are no fun.

Radek Stapanek successfully serves and volleys and wins plenty of matches as an old man by tennis standards. It seems with a little practice it can be done.

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by fullpolyserve&volley

I can still serve and volley. You guys should just hit the gym :P I can't say his website was legit though... but this year's Aussie Open had so many ads between points... it really dragged on

I serve and volley fairly often also. That's what I grew up doing.

[mikeespinmusic]

Originally Posted by fullpolyserve&volley

I can still serve and volley. You guys should just hit the gym :P I can't say his website was legit though... but this year's Aussie Open had so many ads between points... it really dragged on

I stand by that site its made a lot of sense, you're right about the dragging on for the Australian Open. The amount of commercials between each point were shocking.

[SStrikerR]

Originally Posted by Tennusdude

Radek Stapanek successfully serves and volleys and wins plenty of matches as an old man by tennis standards. It seems with a little practice it can be done.

Okay, he makes it work. But does he win slams? Does he make a ton of money doing it? No. The most money is accumulated by baseliners.

[mikeespinmusic]

Originally Posted by SStrikerR

Okay, he makes it work. But does he win slams? Does he make a ton of money doing it? No. The most money is accumulated by baseliners.

A fine example

[TennisCJC]

Originally Posted by Tennusdude

Radek Stapanek successfully serves and volleys and wins plenty of matches as an old man by tennis standards. It seems with a little practice it can be done.

Radek mixes in S&V on serve and some hit&charge on return but he does not exclusive use S&V. I don't think any current pro attacks like Sampras, Edberg, or Rafter back in the 80s/90s.

[merwy]

Because they feel more confident that they can win the point from the baseline. The baseline game is what this pros train day in and day out, so it's what they feel most comfortable using.
They could see it like this: When I hit a first serve and follow it up with a volley, i might get an easy put away, but I could also get passed. Or I could get an awkward return back that I might not be able to handle well. (remember that in modern tennis a bad volley almost always means that you lose the point immediately).
If I just stay back, I can put the easy returns away from the back (since my groundstrokes are much better than my volleys). And if I get a return that I can't put away immediately, I can just hit an aggressive shot and win the rally most of the times since I still have the advantage because of my good first serve.

[batz]

Because if returners like Nole and Murray know that you are going to come to the net on every first serve then you are going to spend a lot of time looking at your toes or the ball flying past you.

Have you seen what these guys do to Llodra/Steps etc?

[raging]

Originally Posted by batz

Because if returners like Nole and Murray know that you are going to come to the net on every first serve then you are going to spend a lot of time looking at your toes or the ball flying past you.

Have you seen what these guys do to Llodra/Steps etc?

Correct, even Federer was trying to press & get in more against Andy in the Oz Open semi-final.
Unfortunately Andy & Novak love a target , Rafa is no exception & to be frank, pretty well the top 100 will make it difficult for the volleyer.

Federer once commented that he didn't come in off his serve because he didn't like the uncertainty of being beaten by 1 hit...At that stage he was mixing it better from the back of the courts. Now it is even harder to get in and finish.

[Relinquis]

there are good reasons they don't come in after 'every' first serve:

• It's predictable.
• It's predictable and with current techniques and strings can be passed effectively.
• Current pros* are not as good at volleying as the late 90s generation due to lack of S&V on tour and limited grass season. Which players can hit an approach volley or half volley and then finish off at the net in a couple of shots? Anyone can hit a put-away volley on a floater.

However, volleying and in some cases serving and volleying can be very effective if used sparingly. We saw this in the Marseille ATP tournament int he last two weeks. Not just Llodra (vs. Del Potro in particular - awesome match by the way), but also other players like Simon, Tsonga and such coming in during points to put pressure and surprise their opponents.

It can be very effective in tie-breaks or on key points.

S&V is like a drop shot or running around your backhand to hit an inside out forehand. If you use it too much, without setting up the point the better players will expect it and adapt their game to counter.

I think players like Murray, Berdych, Del Potro and Gasquet could use a bit of volleying in their game. Would give them the dimension needed to raise their game; round it out a bit more and give them a weapon they can rely on when things get tough for them. Nadal has been volleying a lot more in the past couple of years, although those are more like put-away volleys or swing volleys. Maybe all of the doubles he's playing now will help him incorporate that more so he doesn't have to grind it out as much.

* The exceptions are few, the older crop of S&V people like Llodra and Stepanek, who also play at lot of doubles. Or all courters who played in the previous generation like Federer.

[2ndServe]

returns are too good now. Also it's harder to sv on a really fast first serve, the ball gets on your quicker and you're volleying from the service line or back. Great s&ver are usually guys like edberg, rafter, mcenroe who use a great 3/4 spin serve and close well. As the top tier s&vers probably only sampras was the only guy blasting 1st serves. And guys like Goran, Krajicek, Phillipousis weren't top tier s&vers they were guys with ridiculously huge serves who happened stroll up and volley after delivering a bomb.

[spinovic]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

That may be the biggest reason why pros are no longer serving and volley. Polys are allowing balls to dip much more than before, picking up balls off of your ankles are no fun.

Besides making it nearly impossible to hit a volley winner from that position, it forces you to hit up and over the net, floating the ball back which puts the baseliner in a great position to load up for a passing shot.

I do think many players would benefit from serving and volleying more often, but I'm not sure doing it on every first serve is the answer. A nice mix would be more practical and effective, IMO.

I also think many players should be more aggressive on their second serve vs. just spinning it in. Many guys, like a Raonic or Isner, IMO, are starting second serve points on the defensive, or neutral at best, against the top players on second serves. And, in either situation, defensive or neutral, they are going to lose the majority of those points. Why not risk a little more to start those points off on your terms? So what if you DF a few times and give away free points. I'd bet the end result would be to their benefit. And, it would also increase the effectiveness of the "safer" second serves when they chose to use them. Again, just my opinion.

[mikeespinmusic]

i haven't hit a volley above the shoulder for a while come to think of it. They're always dipping down so violently these days...thanks rpm blast...that type of passing shot used to be a premium hard shot to pull off...

[ultradr]

Originally Posted by LittleTinGoddess

I understand these points, but next time you watch a match pay attention to the return of the first serve when it isn't in the opponent's strike zone. It's almost always a floater that could be volleyed deep into a corner or sometimes even slam-dunked.

• It's harder to serve well when you serve and volley, compared to concentrating on serve only. So your serve will be less potent than your best serves.
• Returner will not just float the return if server serves and volley. In other words, returner will go for more and direct return. Just look at the Agassi's aggressive returns in era of huge serve and volleyers. These days nobody serve and volley. So your priority is just block it deep.

[GoaLaSSo]

1st serves can be tricky nowadays with serve and volley. Players that rely on hard flat first serves could actually have trouble because the shot will come back to them too quickly unless it is an ace or the returner anticipates incorrectly. The only reliable flat serve for setting up volleys is the body serve.

Returners are much better at anticipating and reaching spinny serves than they used to be (also they have better equipment to deal with these serves). Most of the serves that give people trouble are wide sharp angle serves, but these are a double edged sword. If the returner anticipates the serve, it gives him many more options to pass the server. If the server goes down the middle, it is hard to get it away from the returner by using a spinny serve unless it is a slice serve creeping away. However, down the middle spinny serves force the returner to come up with a craftier shot because they have no good angles to pass the server.

Also a huge thing that ruins serve and volley is the first volley. Today, it is much harder to place a first volley that returners can't reach. Slower courts and faster players make it much much easier for the returner to reach the first volley.

[jaap deboeck]

If Llodra and F. Lopez can serve-volley well, others (with even more athleticism and raw talent) could too. Tennis styles move in cycles like everything else including nature. All it will take is some as yet unknown MEGA star to change our perceptions again!

The current scene is alienating potential fans (even me!) that just cannot sit through 2 to 5 hours of the same rally repeated ad nauseam 200 times, hence miniscule TV ratings (well below a .5 share) and 2/3 empty stadia at many late round ATP/WTA tour events. At least the women have widely varying results: e.g. a Kvitova could win a Slam or lose 1st round; Serena could get ill or injured etc.

[spperry]

I dont agree that 90% of returns are just blocks, watch the best returners and they do more than just block it back.

If guys kept serving and volleying they would have to hit far too many difficult volleys for it to be effective.