Arthroscopic knee surgery for arthritis.

[drak]

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ

Do you have a tear in the articular cartilage? Or a tear in the meniscus? Or both?

Des the Stem cell/PRP treatment help for both types of tears?

I have a loose LCL and to a lesser extend a loose ACL a bit of a patellar issue and light to moderate opstearthritis, and maybe a small meniscus tear. The Stem/cell PRP treatment has had promising results in helping significantly in osteoarthritis cases, meniscus repair and has in some cases shown significant cartilage regneration. It can also add collagen growth to the injured areas of the tendons/ligaments and the result is a "tightening" effect.
My knee was not that bad but was starting to act up more, so I read a lot and decided to be proactive and try this treatment to extend my "active lifestyle" knee life as opposed to waiting for things to get really bad and that is when options are more limited. Note that I had excellent results with chronic achilles tendonis (both legs) treatment via PRP - the only thing that worked!
Like I said, I will keep the forum ip to date on how it works. This is cutting edge stuff, like PRP was 4-5 years ago.

Drak

[drak]

Originally Posted by drak

I have a loose LCL and to a lesser extend a loose ACL a bit of a patellar issue and light to moderate opstearthritis, and maybe a small meniscus tear. The Stem/cell PRP treatment has had promising results in helping significantly in osteoarthritis cases, meniscus repair and has in some cases shown significant cartilage regneration. It can also add collagen growth to the injured areas of the tendons/ligaments and the result is a "tightening" effect.
My knee was not that bad but was starting to act up more, so I read a lot and decided to be proactive and try this treatment to extend my "active lifestyle" knee life as opposed to waiting for things to get really bad and that is when options are more limited. Note that I had excellent results with chronic achilles tendonis (both legs) treatment via PRP - the only thing that worked!
Like I said, I will keep the forum ip to date on how it works. This is cutting edge stuff, like PRP was 4-5 years ago.

Drak

stem cell PRP injection went well, saw Doc today at 8 days after injection. Everything looks good and I can start increasing my workouts and probably start drilling in a week or so, just listen to my knee and back off if necessary. PRP keeps workin for 1-2 months at least and stem cells for up to a year, so it may be a long while before I have final results. Keep in mind I had relatively minor issues and thos was as much preventative as it was "cure now".

[jhusein]

Originally Posted by drak

stem cell PRP injection went well, saw Doc today at 8 days after injection. Everything looks good and I can start increasing my workouts and probably start drilling in a week or so, just listen to my knee and back off if necessary. PRP keeps workin for 1-2 months at least and stem cells for up to a year, so it may be a long while before I have final results. Keep in mind I had relatively minor issues and thos was as much preventative as it was "cure now".

Hi Drak. I had a scope done to my left knee less than two years ago and my right knee started to act up and I am very interested in PRP. Please keep us updated.

May I know who and where is your Doctor? Many thanks.

[drak]

Originally Posted by jhusein

Hi Drak. I had a scope done to my left knee less than two years ago and my right knee started to act up and I am very interested in PRP. Please keep us updated.

May I know who and where is your Doctor? Many thanks.

Peyson Flattery, Bend Or. A naturopath who has been doin PRP longer than anyone in Central Oregon - 8 yrs and started doing the stem cell/PRP combo about a yr ago. Good guy and has a good rep in this area.

[jhusein]

Originally Posted by drak

Peyson Flattery, Bend Or. A naturopath who has been doin PRP longer than anyone in Central Oregon - 8 yrs and started doing the stem cell/PRP combo about a yr ago. Good guy and has a good rep in this area.

Many thanks.

[Raul_SJ]

Originally Posted by drak

stem cell PRP injection went well, saw Doc today at 8 days after injection. Everything looks good and I can start increasing my workouts and probably start drilling in a week or so, just listen to my knee and back off if necessary. PRP keeps workin for 1-2 months at least and stem cells for up to a year, so it may be a long while before I have final results. Keep in mind I had relatively minor issues and thos was as much preventative as it was "cure now".

Did the Doctor advise going with the combo stem cells/PRP treatment rather than PRP alone? (I've heard some people get improvement with PRP alone)

Do you need to go back after 2 months for another injection?

Is it a relatively low risk procedure compared to surgery?

[drak]

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ

Did the Doctor advise going with the combo stem cells/PRP treatment rather than PRP alone? (I've heard some people get improvement with PRP alone)

Do you need to go back after 2 months for another injection?

Is it a relatively low risk procedure compared to surgery?

He actually advocated a PRP but I wanted to go stem with PRP based upon research I have been doing into the success of this procedure regarding osteoarthritis - some cartilage regeneration and many successes with people who have very bad knees and were looking at TKR's.

Some people do go back for another PRP 4-8 weeks after the initial, I am opting for just treatment at this time as my knee was not that bad.

In the scheme of knee treatments from what I have read it is very low risk, you are using your own stem cells/blood so chance of rejection is nil or minimal, and this is not surgery, it is a mini liposuction of belly fat and a few shots. For the potential "reward" the risk seems very low IMO.

[Raul_SJ]

PRP looks promising although the fact that years after its introduction, it is not apparently covered by insurance suggests that it has not proven to be medically effective.

[drak]

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ

PRP looks promising although the fact that years after its introduction, it is not apparently covered by insurance suggests that it has not proven to be medically effective.

Dr. James Andrews who did both Adrian Petersen's knee and recenetly Robert Griffin III used stem cells on both to speed recovery from the ACL surgeries. This guy is cutting edge, here's one link.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/1/23/3...-james-andrews

[Raul_SJ]

Originally Posted by drak

Dr. James Andrews who did both Adrian Petersen's knee and recenetly Robert Griffin III used stem cells on both to speed recovery from the ACL surgeries. This guy is cutting edge, here's one link.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/1/23/3...-james-andrews

Thanks for the link.

Were the injections painful?

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...y-really-work/

“The injections are very painful,” Dr. de Vos pointed out.

[drak]

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ

Thanks for the link.

Were the injections painful?

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...y-really-work/

“The injections are very painful,” Dr. de Vos pointed out.

Hardly any pain from the injections, they use lydocane to numb it up, the stomach fat withdrawal was more a weird feeling than anything. I had really bad pain (Doc warned me) beginning 1-2 hrs AFTER the injection that lasted 12-14 hrs, I had to load up on the Vicoden, it then went away quickly and then just general soreness that was less and less each day, by day 4 I felt good.

[Fintft]

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis

Many people have meniscus injuries that aren't causing problems as the "61%" of your first post indicates. If the damaged part of the meniscus gets in the way inside the joint in my opinion something has to be done.

It's funny, b/c I got a new meniscus tear on my previous healthy left knee (had one surgery on the right one many years ago, then passed on a second surgery):

I felt some pain and wobbliness even sitting poorly on a chair at work mid week (that would get better after half an hour walk), then some problems while playing two nights in a row (including a match, when I was tentative to move and lost my serve late in the set and the match).

And then it got better the next day, DURING an easy tennis lesson (that I've shared with a friend)?!! I've started that lesson with some problems/pain/being tentative and finished almost pain free (well I've also changed my technique a bit, especially on the BH- different rotation and a lower, more relaxed position)...

That kinda make me even more sure, that moderate movement actually helped my knee, an opinion reinforced yesterday when I've only rode my exercise bike and practiced my serve (no pain anymore- not even that small tinge when going down the stairs). I'll have to see how it holds in another match tomorrow(the last for a couple of weeks) and then in daily practice sessions with better players then me(and lighter weight wise) during the week...

(Yeah and went back a few weeks ago, after a few months off to glucosamine, Omega 3 and vitamin D).

[Chas Tennis]

On 4-10 occasions some years ago I would get a pain in my knee during a match. I believe that it occurred over a few year period after I got my first knee surgery. When this happened it occurred to me more than once that I might be playing my last few minutes of tennis as this injury could be the end of my tennis.

I continued playing the match and deciding what to do. It went away after 2-3 games.

This knee pain happened about 4-8 times. I attributed it to my meniscus getting out of place and then going back into a stable out-of-the-way place. Who knows?

I have not experienced this pain in several years.

[Fintft]

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis

On 4-10 occasions some years ago I would get a pain in my knee during a match. I believe that it occurred over a few year period after I got my first knee surgery. When this happened it occurred to me more than once that I might be playing my last few minutes of tennis as this injury could be the end of my tennis.

I continued playing the match and deciding what to do. It went away after 2-3 games.

This knee pain happened about 4-8 times. I attributed it to my meniscus getting out of place and then going back into a stable out-of-the-way place. Who knows?

I have not experienced this pain in several years.

Exactly...

Good luck!

[drak]

Day 18 for me post stem cell/PRP, did my first cross country ski for a hour and a half yesterday then later an hr of pretty hard stationary bike riding. I've noticed the past 2-3 days that my knee is starting to feel strong vs okay, this morning after yesterday pushing it the hardest I have so far it feels fantastic. Playing tennis will be my "acid test", I'll probably get out this week and test it out on the courts.

Drak

[Fintft]

Hopefully progressively on the courts!

Good-luck!

[drak]

Originally Posted by Fintft

Hopefully progressively on the courts!

Good-luck!

did about 80 minutes of drilling Wednesday, felt pretty good (stable) and no soreness during or after. will likely hit at least a few times next week, taking it gradually

Drak

[Raul_SJ]

Originally Posted by drak

did about 80 minutes of drilling Wednesday, felt pretty good (stable) and no soreness during or after. will likely hit at least a few times next week, taking it gradually

Drak

How are you quantitatively measuring the before/after result with regard to tennis activity?

I believe you mentioned that the injection treatment was mainly a proactive step and you were experiencing relatively minor symptoms on the court.

Given this, is there some standard you will use to determine if treatment has provided pain relief? e.g., you could play 3x a week prior vs 5x a week post-treatment.

[drak]

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ

How are you quantitatively measuring the before/after result with regard to tennis activity?

I believe you mentioned that the injection treatment was mainly a proactive step and you were experiencing relatively minor symptoms on the court.

Given this, is there some standard you will use to determine if treatment has provided pain relief? e.g., you could play 3x a week prior vs 5x a week post-treatment.

I have two objectives two measure. One is my knee instability, doc evaluated it and it was there vs my good right knee, it was likely caused by a ski accident last March and I weakened my LCL and MCL - I will see if the tenotomy combined with the injection fixes this thru tendon healing and hence tightening.
Secondly I have had some pain/discomfort when I fully extend or fully bend the knee, I believe I have a small medial meniscus tear (i have had three before so I know how they feel). I will evaluate whether this diminishes or goes away to judge effectiveness of treatment.
In addition I know how my knee feels after playing 2 or 3 days in a row - not so good. In fact playing singles because of the instability was not something i have been doing. So as time goes by and I play more I will evaluate that. Yes it is subjective but I have some good yardsticks to judge by IMO.

[drak]

Originally Posted by drak

I have two objectives two measure. One is my knee instability, doc evaluated it and it was there vs my good right knee, it was likely caused by a ski accident last March and I weakened my LCL and MCL - I will see if the tenotomy combined with the injection fixes this thru tendon healing and hence tightening.
Secondly I have had some pain/discomfort when I fully extend or fully bend the knee, I believe I have a small medial meniscus tear (i have had three before so I know how they feel). I will evaluate whether this diminishes or goes away to judge effectiveness of treatment.
In addition I know how my knee feels after playing 2 or 3 days in a row - not so good. In fact playing singles because of the instability was not something i have been doing. So as time goes by and I play more I will evaluate that. Yes it is subjective but I have some good yardsticks to judge by IMO.

Time for a 8-9 week update: had a bout of medial soreness at weeks 5-6 after I increased my tennis and got somewhat bummed. Thought I might have a patella issue and started wearing a patella strap and doing some incline (toes to floor) body weight squats. The results since have been dynamic, knee is now 9 out of 10 and the tendon tightening seems to have worked as well, with full staightening (or bending) it feels just like the other knee - no issues. Also knee stability is now very good, same as non injured knee.
The issue I have is I can't be sure/confident my dramatic improvement is from the Stem/Cell PRP or the Patella strap/exercise, or some combo of each. In any case the knee is way better then before the stem cell/PRP injection and seems to be getting stronger.

Drak