serve break thru

[WildVolley]

Oh, I understand your position a little better.

Even the term "drop" could confuse someone who thinks they need to force the racket into that position.

When I'm teaching, I use the term "lag." I tell my students to relax enough to allow the hand and racket to lag. I do see some beginners try to force the racket down into the drop.

This is when LeeD's talk about throwing comes into play. Someone who throws a ball well allows the arm to externally rotate from the shoulder and let the hand lag. They are not trying to force the external rotation but allow it to happen as the body and elbow drive forward.

Allowing it to happen makes a big difference. This is why some of the biggest serves I've ever hit seem relatively "relaxed" in terms of muscular tension.

[luvforty]

lag - I like.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by luvforty

ok... another question with the 'drop'.... does this imply that the lowest point that the racket tip reaches, is the end of the back swing?

Define "backswing."

During a high level serve. The racket drops or "lags" as the legs drive the shoulders and elbows up. So the "drop" is actually happening while the rear shoulder is moving up and the elbow is moving forward.

In my mind, the "drop" is actually a lagging part of the forward motion of the swing, so it occurs AFTER the backswing. In other words, the hand is already driving toward the target during the "drop." As you've mentioned, that's why the term "drop" may be sort of misleading and why I often use the term "lag."

Again, the terminology isn't that important. I prefer to shoot video and then show people what they are doing wrong.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

Define "backswing."

say you hit a forehand with no loop, straight back (backswing), straigh forward (forward swing)...the end of the backswing would be the point that the racket tip reached furthest away from the ball.

at what point does the 'backswing' ends for the serve? I am saying it is not the lowest point of the 'drop', which is why i think it's misleading.... I like 'lag' better.

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by luvforty

after numerous shadow swings in the living room and bunch of scuff marks on the ceiling for the past couple months, finally found my serve... MY serve.

foot line perpendicular to the baseline, chest to the right post at ready position.

tossing arm straight into the court.. hitting hand continental grip with V right on top of bevel 1.... racket shaft about 45 degrees to the forearm....abbreviated motion to the trophy, with the racket face already addressing the contact point...

racket drop doesn't feel like a drop, more like a counterclockwise rotation... aka external shoulder rotation

laid back wrist on the swing up... lean on the ball and wack the felt off it....well it doesn't feel like a swing up, more like a clockwise rotation. aka ISR

flats hitting 1-2 ft on the back fence.... 45 degree weather with slight head wind.

spin serve, same motion with slight grip change, feels very secure as well.

ball toss is quite low.

so effing easy, zero wasted motion.

with some more work i should be able to put some legs and more core into it, and find better locations to make it a little monster.

What high speed video camera might you be buying or borrowing to see what is really going on with your new serving motions? Check any golfer friends as golfers have many more high speed video cameras than any other group.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=405536

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=431983

[luvforty]

only hit about 50 of them today during a 2-hour hit... working on getting the elbow inline with the shoulders, but afterwards I realized that the hand position was too low... gotta correct next time.

1st serve percentage was about 50%.

balls only bounced a few inches up the fence today... 32F, no sun... I think the sun makes a difference... it heats up the cement and causes thermos to lift the ball.

[arche3]

Ha ha, dozu can't serve because he is too concerned with the terminology. Take my advice and get a few lessons. Your posts show so much ignorance. Its like your arguing that the wheel is round.

[luvforty]

arche3 you missed your medication again.... why are you having this fixation that I am somebody else.

tennis lessons are for spoiled kids. real men figure out stuff on their own!

[arche3]

Originally Posted by luvforty

arche3 you missed your medication again.... why are you having this fixation that I am somebody else.

tennis lessons are for spoiled kids. real men figure out stuff on their own!

OK luv40. Sorry about calling you dozu.

But it is obvious you need some lessons. Or some help on court from someone who can actually play and teach tennis.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by arche3

OK luv40. Sorry about calling you dozu.

But it is obvious you need some lessons. Or some help on court from someone who can actually play and teach tennis.

no worries.

on lessons -

1. it would ruin all the fun of figuring out stuff; I have figured out pretty much everything... tennis is not easy, but not rocket science either for the analytic mind.

2. a few people i know have taken lessons and they aint getting any better... matter of fact they improved more from the tips I gave them than from the lessons.

3. this is quite similar to going to a doctor - in many cases, a person who can actually think maybe better off figuring it on his own than going to a doctor.... personal experience I had a few injuries in the past that ended better as a result of NOT taking the doctor's advice..... and I have seen plenty of instances of such on other people.... it all depends.

[onehandbh]

Originally Posted by luvforty

3. this is quite similar to going to a doctor - in many cases, a person who can actually think maybe better off figuring it on his own than going to a doctor.... personal experience I had a few injuries in the past that ended better as a result of NOT taking the doctor's advice..... and I have seen plenty of instances of such on other people.... it all depends.

If you break your leg, I recommend that
you not try to reset it yourself...

Intense pain in kidneys or gall bladder
area? Same thing. Go see a doc.

[Avles]

Originally Posted by luvforty

arche3 you missed your medication again.... why are you having this fixation that I am somebody else.

tennis lessons are for spoiled kids. real men figure out stuff on their own!

I know you won't admit it because you don't want the reban but nonetheless it's clear...

Compare this post:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=450085

with this post:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=371174

You and dozu have a son that is the same age (6 in 2011, 8 now).

Also, compare this:

Originally Posted by luvforty

I actually tried what Mr. Smith suggested - switching the 2 hands around.... he didn't wonna do it lol... it's ok, there is time

you know what, I am gonna show him Dave's post, telling him that a famous coach (instead of dad) is asking him to do so lol.

with this:

Originally Posted by dozu

wall hit doesn't really tell much.

4.0 or about seems right... if you are getting ready for a tourney, stroke mechanics would be the last thing you wonna worry about.

from playing against kids of your age... I say the biggest issue is generally the lack of strategy and game management... over hitting, poor shot selection etc.

you may want to just have a simple game plan, and practice on implementing that plan before the tournament.

the stroke mechanics stuff, you can fix later.

Use of "wonna" for "want to" (not very common), one-sentence paragraphs that start with lower case letters... your posts look identical.


Here's luvforty teaching how to hit a slice backhand:

Originally Posted by luvforty

you have this imaginary windshield... it is behind you at the top of the back swing... it is slightly open, and the racket face is on the windshield.... now you wipe it while pushing the windshield forward at the same time... when you finish the shot, the racket face is still flat on the windshield.

Here's dozu teaching how to hit the slice backhand:

Originally Posted by dozu

Imagine your upper arm/forearm/racket being 1 big wiper unit... your arm would be the wiper arm, the racket being the wiper blade.... the shoulder would be axis, and your back muscle (while stretched when you turn back), being the motor that powers the wiper unit.

now here is a ball, coming at you like a bug that lands on the windshield, so your wiper unit will go from high to low, from 11 oclock to 4 oclock, to wipe that bug....

Here are the keys -

1) the wiper blade is always on the windshield, so the racket angle is always constant

2) into impact, the wrist and elbow should be locked, so you have a solid wiper arm, instead of a broken one.

3) this is the KEY part why 95% of slices pop up - the car is NOT parked static! the car (therefore the windshield) is moving 15-20mph forward! this is what makes the stringbed bit the ball and create penetration on the slice.

you=dozu

[Cheetah]

wow. great work Alves.
You're right. luv40 is Dozu.
hahahaha busted! It all makes sense now.

[arche3]

Busted. Admit it or I will report you. :sly:

[onehandbh]

Looks like it's time to set the dozu/luvforty vs arche3 match!

My match strategy advice for luvforty and arche3 remains the same.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by onehandbh

Looks like it's time to set the dozu/luvforty vs arche3 match!

My match strategy advice for luvforty and arche3 remains the same.

Yes! Lol.

[luvforty]

more progress last night with proper use of shoulder over shoulder rotation, and the position of the elbow.

both slice and kick feels quite secure now....

used dead balls in 32 F weather, no sun, didn't get much juice on the ball..... curious to see what happens with fresh balls on a warmer day.