Anything actually work for low back pain?

[heycal]

Perhaps my back does round a bit when I cross my legs? I wonder if this could be a big contributor? Or unlikely...?

As for weightlifting, one reason I'm reluctant to stop is because I followed that advice about a year ago for similar problems in my neck. Two months of zero lifting or hard exercise changed nothing. (Nothing seemed to help much but time -- eventually it gradually changed from chronic soreness to chronic stiffness and I'm like "deal! I can live with this after what I was used to.")

Also, I only do body weight squats for about three minutes every 3 days, and have never done a deadlift in my life. My routine in addition to the body weight squats is basically 2 sets chins, 2 sets seated rows, 2 sets barbell press and 2 sets machine press every 72 hours, trying to use good form and using a weight that makes me fail around 7 or 8 reps.

I could be fooling myself thinking it's not contributing to the problem, but it really doesn't seem like too much, ya know?

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by heycal

I can play tennis or do most anything for the most part. It's inactivity that seems to cause more symptoms, not moving around.

In the "old days" treatment for back problems was a lot of rest, stay in bed. Today I would say it is contrary, do as much activity you can, that does not aggrevate it. Tha answer to the inactivity problems should in part be posture, including sitting, perhaps a look on the mattres you use for sleeping, imo.
Many times I have felt a bit of back pain, that definetely got better after tennis, or running.
But it is frustrating because once you have the pain, it can be hard to disssect what caused or causes it. And once you are well you might be able to tolerate some of the factors that caused it or kept it from going away.

[tlm]

Originally Posted by heycal

I've had lower back pain for about a year. MRI's show not unusual damage for a 50 year old in terms of disc and arthritis stuff. I've tried various strengthening and stretching exercises, but nothing helps. I continue to do all recreational activities and weight training I've always done, since they don't seem to aggravate the problem. (Sitting and lying down are the bigger problems.)

Anyone here have any experience with any treatments that actually greatly helped their long term-ish low back pain? (I never did have much success trying to treat my neck for similar issues. The pain just gradually turned into a chronic stiffness.)

I'm worried that the only thing that's going to help -- if anything does -- is time. Anyone beg to differ?

I used to have back problems, but then I found the lose the back pain.com system which has been a blessing. I would suggest to anyone with back problems to purchase their system and say goodbye to your back problems.

[Rickson]

Cal, stay away from those young girls. Your back will get better in no time.

[Povl Carstensen]

Deleted.
10 chx

[tlm]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Backpain.com seems to just more or less be the webpage for at couple of chiropractors..?

You should try reading a little further, it is much more than that. They have a very effective program that completely eliminated my back problems. If you don't have back pain or don't understand the lose the back pain.coms website thats fine, but don't discourage others that could really benefit from this great program. Just go back to the same old ineffective ways of treating back pain that most of us have went through with little if any success.

[charliefedererer]

Originally Posted by heycal

Perhaps my back does round a bit when I cross my legs? I wonder if this could be a big contributor? Or unlikely...?

As for weightlifting, one reason I'm reluctant to stop is because I followed that advice about a year ago for similar problems in my neck. Two months of zero lifting or hard exercise changed nothing. (Nothing seemed to help much but time -- eventually it gradually changed from chronic soreness to chronic stiffness and I'm like "deal! I can live with this after what I was used to.")

Also, I only do body weight squats for about three minutes every 3 days, and have never done a deadlift in my life. My routine in addition to the body weight squats is basically 2 sets chins, 2 sets seated rows, 2 sets barbell press and 2 sets machine press every 72 hours, trying to use good form and using a weight that makes me fail around 7 or 8 reps.

I could be fooling myself thinking it's not contributing to the problem, but it really doesn't seem like too much, ya know?

Seeing your exercise program I am in agreement with you that it is unlikely contributing to your back pain.

But it does seem to lack a specific back strength program - I guess that is largely in part what you are looking for here.

It would seem that quite a few suggestions have been given here.
Again, looking at many of the back programs, most have more similarities than differences.

The key would seem to start with a fairly "simple" set of back exercises that would not aggravate your condition as you start to gain increased flexibility and strength of the para-spinal musclces.
Such a group would include those from the Mayo Clinic back exercise regimen:
Slide show: Back exercises in 15 minutes a day http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/back-pain/LB00001_D
(Actually, I assume you are doing a similar program under the direction of your physical therapist.)

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by tlm

You should try reading a little further, it is much more than that. They have a very effective program that completely eliminated my back problems. If you don't have back pain or don't understand the lose the back pain.coms website thats fine, but don't discourage others that could really benefit from this great program. Just go back to the same old ineffective ways of treating back pain that most of us have went through with little if any success.

Sorry, I looked at backpain.com, my bad...

[heycal]

Originally Posted by charliefedererer

But it does seem to lack a specific back strength program - I guess that is largely in part what you are looking for here.

It would seem that quite a few suggestions have been given here.
Again, looking at many of the back programs, most have more similarities than differences.

The key would seem to start with a fairly "simple" set of back exercises that would not aggravate your condition as you start to gain increased flexibility and strength of the para-spinal musclces.
Such a group would include those from the Mayo Clinic back exercise regimen:
Slide show: Back exercises in 15 minutes a day http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/back-pain/LB00001_D
(Actually, I assume you are doing a similar program under the direction of your physical therapist.)

I guess I should have mentioned that my workout routines, even before back problems, always included a few minutes of 'core' exercises for back and abs. And since my back started hurting, I've added more strengthening and stretching exercises, and got a few books on the subject lying around. Few or none seem to make the problem worse, some don't do anything, and several provide very temporary relief. I can pretty much do most of them without trouble, so I suspect my muscles in most of these areas aren't particularly compromised?

I guess that's what brought to create this thread. Nothing has seemed to work after a year of pain.

[tlm]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Sorry, I looked at backpain.com, my bad...

No problem I was wondering if you found the right site.

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by heycal

Question for you back experts: one thing I notice I do is cross one leg over the other when I sit in most chairs...

Could this be aggravating the problem?

Are you kidding? Of course that is aggravating the problem.. in fact it can be the cause of the problem for many people.

Don't bother with treatment of your back or exercises if you're going to actively fight any improvements by sitting cross-legged or reclining on a couch for a few hours each evening.

[heycal]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

Are you kidding? Of course that is aggravating the problem.. in fact it can be the cause of the problem for many people.

Don't bother with treatment of your back or exercises if you're going to actively fight any improvements by sitting cross-legged or reclining on a couch for a few hours each evening.

Well, I don't intend to sit cross legged any more if I can help it. The thing is, no one ever mentioned this to me, nor did I remember any mention of it in the various back books I just read. It just kind of dawned on me on my own as a potential source of of trouble about 2 days ago.

What exactly are the pros and cons of recliners, or reclining on the couch? Still unclear on that one.

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by heycal

Well, I don't intend to sit cross legged any more if I can help it. The thing is, no one ever mentioned this to me...

What exactly are the pros and cons of recliners, or reclining on the couch? Still unclear on that one.

Crossing your legs should be self-explanatory - it makes your hips and lower back sit unevenly and adds untold extra tension/pressure to certain points on one side more than the other.

So far as lying on recliners. Most slump too much (so you don't slide down I guess) and so load up the compression on your lower back in an unnatural way. This can causes hypertrophy or atrophy of the various muscles around your hips/back and, generally, adds to back issues.

Many people also sit on them not lined up with the TV - the TV is usually out to one side - so most people spend their time leaning one way, meaning more uneven pressure down the torso/spine/hips.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by heycal

Well, I don't intend to sit cross legged any more if I can help it. The thing is, no one ever mentioned this to me, nor did I remember any mention of it in the various back books I just read. It just kind of dawned on me on my own as a potential source of of trouble about 2 days ago.

What exactly are the pros and cons of recliners, or reclining on the couch? Still unclear on that one.

crossing the legs doesn't need to be harmful. furthermore there's no one position that's perfect or dangerous as long as you keep in mind symmetry and balance. any one position kept too long is bad. even if it's the perfect position. gotta move, change, and stretch.

make sure to cross both sides. learn how to control your pelvis angles and balance. if you tend to tilt back a lot consciously tilt forward. move and stretch the pelvis a lot in all six directions. rotate left and right, tilt front and back, tilt to each side. and all the combinations of two and three directions. if you are slouched in a couch for too long stretch to the other direction. that sense of awareness and balance is far more important than any perfect posture. later on the resting state posture comes into effect but initially moving and stretching more is the most important.

[Povl Carstensen]

Sorry to repeat myself, but I strongly advocate wedge pillows for chairs you spend most of your time in. Easy, cheap remedy against rounding your back, crossed legs or not.

[heycal]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

Crossing your legs should be self-explanatory - it makes your hips and lower back sit unevenly and adds untold extra tension/pressure to certain points on one side more than the other.

So far as lying on recliners. Most slump too much (so you don't slide down I guess) and so load up the compression on your lower back in an unnatural way. This can causes hypertrophy or atrophy of the various muscles around your hips/back and, generally, adds to back issues.

Many people also sit on them not lined up with the TV - the TV is usually out to one side - so most people spend their time leaning one way, meaning more uneven pressure down the torso/spine/hips.

I think i do tend to slump to one side as well, my right side, and that's where more of my pain is.

So what is the proper way to sit in a recliner, or on a couch, or on the bed to watch a movie? There must be alternatives to watching to "Gone with the Wind" in an ergonomic office chair with feet on the floor, etc.

What are the ways one can 'lounge' comfortably while reading and watching movies that isn't going to cause trouble?

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

crossing the legs doesn't need to be harmful. furthermore there's no one position that's perfect or dangerous as long as you keep in mind symmetry and balance. any one position kept too long is bad. even if it's the perfect position. gotta move, change, and stretch.

make sure to cross both sides. learn how to control your pelvis angles and balance. if you tend to tilt back a lot consciously tilt forward. move and stretch the pelvis a lot in all six directions. rotate left and right, tilt front and back, tilt to each side. and all the combinations of two and three directions. if you are slouched in a couch for too long stretch to the other direction. that sense of awareness and balance is far more important than any perfect posture. later on the resting state posture comes into effect but initially moving and stretching more is the most important.

Sounds pretty sensible to me, Borami. But you'll have to take up the "crossing legs can be okay" business with Bobby.

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Sorry to repeat myself, but I strongly advocate wedge pillows for chairs you spend most of your time in. Easy, cheap remedy against rounding your back, crossed legs or not.

I actually spend a lot of time in an easy chair, working on a laptop on my lap, resting on top of a pillow. (This used to be done with a leg crossed, usually the right over the left, but now I'll try to change that.) Perhaps a wedge pillow -- which I think is where your knees are forced lower than your hips -- wouldn't work in this situation?

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by heycal

I actually spend a lot of time in an easy chair, working on a laptop on my lap, resting on top of a pillow. (This used to be done with a leg crossed, usually the right over the left, but now I'll try to change that.) Perhaps a wedge pillow -- which I think is where your knees are forced lower than your hips -- wouldn't work in this situation?

I would never work for a prolonged time with a laptop on my lap. I work (and spend time on the internet) with a keyboard on a table, and the bottom of my screen lifted about 20 cm from the table. And sitting on an office chair, which can tilt foreward, so I dont need the wedge here. Just my 2c.
Easy chair with a lap top on the lap sounds like a very bad idea for the back, and I do not think a wedge pillow could fix it. I can not see how you can avoid hunching in that situation/setup.

[heycal]

Originally Posted by boramiNYC

make sure to cross both sides. learn how to control your pelvis angles and balance. if you tend to tilt back a lot consciously tilt forward. move and stretch the pelvis a lot in all six directions. rotate left and right, tilt front and back, tilt to each side. and all the combinations of two and three directions..

Do you basically mean lean side to side and back and forth, etc, or is their some benefit to consciously initiating the action with the pelvis?

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Easy chair with a lap top on the lap sounds like a very bad idea for the back, and I do not think a wedge pillow could fix it. I can not see how you can avoid hunching in that situation/setup.

You may be right. When I first sit down, I make sure to get my low back in a good position with lumbar support, but I often realize I am leaning forward from the shoulders to read the screen or type. So perhaps even if the lower back seemingly has good support, the action of leaning forward a bit from the head and shoulders cause strain on it?

(Also, working on a laptop gets trickier once you need reading glasses, as I do.)

[heycal]

Another frustrating thing I find, and perhaps others do as well, is that many of these back programs consitute of an orderly progression of exercises, from easy to hard, as time goes on and you supposedly strengthen and heal. They seem to assume that A leads to B leads to C.

For example, many will say "once you have the strength to do that exercise without a problem or pain, move on to the next level". But I can already do most of the exercises at the hardest level without difficulty.

The problem isn't a case of needing to get stronger and fitter to do the next level up, it's removing every aches and pains, and the exercises often don't seem to have much relationship with the pain.

For example, how is being able to do 50 "triple tri transverse" or whatever some fancy exercise is called supposed to do make my back feel better when I'm sitting or sleeping? Answer: It doesn't.

[boramiNYC]

Originally Posted by heycal

Do you basically mean lean side to side and back and forth, etc, or is their some benefit to consciously initiating the action with the pelvis?

Well I meant about pelvis in general situations, but even while seated you can try to move it. But, while seated, tilting sideway can be felt by lifting one buttcheek, rotating can be felt by pushing one knee forward while pulling the other back, and tilting back and forth can be felt by rounding the lower back and pressing the lower back against the chair or the opposite, by exaggerating the normal lumbar curve.

These motions can be done with greater range of motion while lying down in various ways. try stretching each way and hold like 10 sec.

Consciously initiating the pelvis movements is the most effective way in increasing the range of motion of the pelvis most safely and effectively IMO. Try to do it as often as possible.