Connors v Borg 1978 and the no.1 ranking

[kiki]

Originally Posted by jimbo333

I actually think Connors, Borg and McEnroe are often underrated on the whole. Because they played in possibly the hardest era, and were up against each other, and were all outstanding players. I do realise there were other tough eras, and it's not something I want to get into as is very subjective, but it's my opinion that they are all underrrated by many when looking at all-time player type lists. I'd have all 3 of them in the top 7 of all-time!

I agree.The 70´s and 80´s are the most attractive and competitive eras ever, even more than the first half of the 90´s or the second half of the 50´s, that would come later.

Laver,Rosewall,Ashe,Nastase,Newcombe,Kodes,Smith,V ilas,Connors,Borg,Mac,Lendl,Wilander,Becker,Edberg and Cash.With second fiddle such as Roche,Gimeno,Orantes,Panatta,Tanner,Kriek,Gerulait is,Noah,Mecir,Okker.iit is unbelievable when you come think about.Such diversity and overall talent and audiences...it is the peak of this sport.

[jimbo333]

Originally Posted by kiki

Borg, Connors and a bit later on Lendl and Mac are the central characters in the Golden Era.1981-1982 are the central years.The top 10 events back then would be 81 and 82 RG, W,USO,WCT and Masters.

Lendl won 2 events
Wilander 1
Connors 2
Borg 2
Mac 3

It couldn´t be more even.

Well if Wilander had won one of the events Mac had won, then it would have been more even

Excellent point though.

[jimbo333]

Originally Posted by kiki

I agree.The 70´s and 80´s are the most attractive and competitive eras ever, even more than the first half of the 90´s or the second half of the 50´s, that would come later.

Laver,Rosewall,Ashe,Nastase,Newcombe,Kodes,Smith,V ilas,Connors,Borg,Mac,Lendl,Wilander,Becker,Edberg and Cash.With second fiddle such as Roche,Gimeno,Orantes,Panatta,Tanner,Kriek,Gerulait is,Noah,Mecir,Okker.iit is unbelievable when you come think about.Such diversity and overall talent and audiences...it is the peak of this sport.

I really havn't seen much tennis pre 1975, I really need to see more now. I had to put up with 1995-2005 which for me at least was the dullest era.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by jimbo333

Well if Wilander had won one of the events Mac had won, then it would have been more even

Excellent point though.

true¡¡¡¡.Borg won 14 majors, including, of course the 2 indoor majors; Mac took 15 just as much as Ivan.Connors won 11, but he refused entering WCT till 77 so might have won another couple of.Well,it is so even...

[kiki]

You see, there´s many common things between Borg ( and Connors,Mac,lendl) with Zepp.They set new standarts for their sport/art, revolutioned the whole world, defined a new reach for superstardom...and are the central characters of the best era...and more important, even if you could get a bit much of them in their absolute peak, with the prespective you can see just their inmense greatness, and the void they have left.it is a matter of perspective...and, last thing, which is the most important, they kept absolutley loyal to themselves and their personality.Maybe that also defines genious...

[jrepac]

Originally Posted by jimbo333

I actually think Connors, Borg and McEnroe are often underrated on the whole. Because they played in possibly the hardest era, and were up against each other, and were all outstanding players. I do realise there were other tough eras, and it's not something I want to get into as is very subjective, but it's my opinion that they are all underrrated by many when looking at all-time player type lists. I'd have all 3 of them in the top 7 of all-time!

I'd throw Lendl into that mix and make it a "Fearsome Foursome"

[Fintft]

Originally Posted by kiki

and the true King of the Masters ( 4 titles in 5 consecutive finals, the last one ( 1975) a win over...Borg...at Stockholm...6-2,6-2,6-1)

Thank you Kiki on the kind words about Ilie Nastase!

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Fintft

Thank you Kiki on the kind words about Ilie Nastase!

The Ali of tennis

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Fintft

Thank you Kiki on the kind words about Ilie Nastase!

The Ali of tennis

[kiki]

Now, what would have happened if they both had played the 74 FO final? would Jimmy have gotten his gran Slam?

after all, he beat the Swede on US clay at the 75 and 76 Forest Hills tourney.And very convincingly.Of course, the venue was not the same...

[kiki]

When Connors is discussed here, few if any posters remark the amazing, IMo, feat that he seldom lost to a so called journeyman.Borg could get beaten from time to time by the likes of Ghering,Manson and Scanlon.

I just remember two bad lossed vs Tom Gullikson ( Tokyo 1980 and Madrid 1984) and a strange defeat at Taygan´s hands in New Orleans 1979, plus those defeats vs Goldie and Pistoleis but he was almost 40.But when Connors lost, he lost to a top ten member or a talented player (Amritraj,Pecci) that had top ten matherial.Just amazing.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by kiki

Now, what would have happened if they both had played the 74 FO final? would Jimmy have gotten his gran Slam?

after all, he beat the Swede on US clay at the 75 and 76 Forest Hills tourney.And very convincingly.Of course, the venue was not the same...

Completely impossible to know, but Connors would have certainly had a very good chance. There's also the issue that if he would have won FO would it have affected his performances at W and the USO. My guess is probably not, but again we'll never know.

[kiki]

Connors also beat Borg at the very prestigious US Indoors at Philadelphia, 7-6, 6-4, 6-0, fast indoor supreme....

[borg number one]

Originally Posted by kiki

Connors also beat Borg at the very prestigious US Indoors at Philadelphia, 7-6, 6-4, 6-0, fast indoor supreme....

Connors vs. Borg indoors was special, but so was Borg vs. McEnroe, or Borg vs. Lendl, McEnroe vs. Connors..and the list goes on which is why those times were very special. Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, and Borg were ALL great indoors. Borg went 5-0 versus Lendl, McEnroe and Connors while winning the Masters Cup in both 1979 and 1980 indoors at the Madison Square Garden with huge crowds and big money (Jan. 80/Jan. 81 YEC events).

By the way, as video, this is special as two titans of the game square off at Wimbledon as Borg wins his 41st match in a row there at the 1981 Wimbledon SF, coming back from two sets down. I sensed deep respect between the two. Borg in a interview about his Wimbledon years once said "they loved to watch Jimmy..because he was a fighter..always fighting. To beat Jimmy you had to play your best tennis". I would rank Connors as having the best backhand of all time by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND6BqlTwZbU ("ladies and gentlemen we can't continue without silence" says the Umpire.lol)

[borg number one]

[kiki]

Originally Posted by borg number one

Connors vs. Borg indoors was special, but so was Borg vs. McEnroe, or Borg vs. Lendl, McEnroe vs. Connors..and the list goes on which is why those times were very special. Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, and Borg were ALL great indoors. Borg went 5-0 versus Lendl, McEnroe and Connors while winning the Masters Cup in both 1979 and 1980 indoors at the Madison Square Garden with huge crowds and big money (Jan. 80/Jan. 81 YEC events).

By the way, as video, this is special as two titans of the game square off at Wimbledon as Borg wins his 41st match in a row there at the 1981 Wimbledon SF, coming back from two sets down. I sensed deep respect between the two. Borg in a interview about his Wimbledon years once said "they loved to watch Jimmy..because he was a fighter..always fighting. To beat Jimmy you had to play your best tennis". I would rank Connors as having the best backhand of all time by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND6BqlTwZbU ("ladies and gentlemen we can't continue without silence" says the Umpire.lol)

That, and their 77 final is the best match they had at London.Remember the centennary final? a greata match closing up the 77 festival, with JMac making his first real dent and Borg and closest friend Gerulaitis playing what many consider the best ever match?

I remember those Masters and WCT finals matches involving the big 4 of the central Golden Era.Yes, even in exos they gave their best and some of their exhibitional matches would be even better becasue there was less pressure to take a prestige win.

In his book Borg said: " It´s always such a great satisfaction to beat Jimmy, cause you know he´s tried his all".Their matches looked like Worldwieght Champiosnhips.

[borg number one]

Absolutely. That was a classic that went down to the wire. Borg held his nerve in the fifth set. He has a splendid 5 set record. Borg said that the 1977 Wimbledon title proved that he "was a good grass court player". "Hey, I beat Jimmy". He was the master of understatement wasn't he? Modest. What you say about those exos is very true. This is also true of many "unofficial" tourneys. Many today don't realize that on top of heavy playing schedules at official tournaments, the top players were maintaining heavy unofficial schedules as they went around the world making money, thrilling fans, getting great practice and taking tennis to new heights of popularity. They laid the groundwork for what Djokovic, Federer, and Nadal are enjoying today. The players of today should be very thankful for the real work that players like Connors and Borg put in (among other past greats of course).

[kiki]

Originally Posted by borg number one

Absolutely. That was a classic that went down to the wire. Borg held his nerve in the fifth set. He has a splendid 5 set record. Borg said that the 1977 Wimbledon title proved that he "was a good grass court player". "Hey, I beat Jimmy". He was the master of understatement wasn't he? Modest. What you say about those exos and this is true of many "unofficial" tourneys is very true. Many today don't realize that on top of heavy playing schedules at official tournaments, the top players were maintaining heavy unofficial schedules as they went around the world making money, thrilling fans, getting great practice and taking tennis to new heights of popularity. They laid the groundwork for what Djokovic, Federer, and Nadal are enjoying today. The players of today should be very thankful for the real work that players like Connors and Borg put in (among other past greats of course).

Very true.I think Laver and Rosewall made tennis a TV and mass market product thanks to their fantastic WCT final in 1972.Other great characters and tennis players such as Nastase,Newcombe and Ashe followed in and Borg,Connors,Mac and later on Lendl,Becker,Wilander and Edberg closed up that magic circle.Sampras,Agassi,Federer and Nadal, the modern champions, got their path cleared out by those legends.,

Did you know that in his book Borg stated that his 1979 RR Masters match vs Connors ( Borg won 3-6,6-3,7-6) was, maybe, the second best indoor match he ever played? ( after the amazing WCT semi of 75 where Borg defeated in five gruelling sets a 36 yrs old Rod Laver)

[Pete27]

I know very good source of GS results in Open era
http://www.************.com/GSResults1968-2011.xls
all players, all results

[Pete27]

Well, the link from my previous post didn´t pass, but who wants to find will find ...