Indian Wells court speed

[Goosehead]

Originally Posted by ark_28

If it has been slowed down then it is a disgrace for tennis and from the USTA the fact is the American number 1 John isner on a super fast court with his serve would be lethal! The tournament officials should have considered this and prepared a lightning fast surface! Slowing the courts down universally is runining our sport.

larry ellsworth isnt interested in john isner, he is interested in his tournament being a commercial success, he wants courts that suit the fans and tv viewers around the world..which is what we get..

and the usta dont have any say in it..the tourney is under the atp tour umbrella, the usta have nothing to do with it.

[Flash O'Groove]

Originally Posted by Goosehead

larry ellsworth isnt interested in john isner, he is interested in his tournament being a commercial success, he wants courts that suit the fans and tv viewers around the world..which is what we get..

and the usta dont have any say in it..the tourney is under the atp tour umbrella, the usta have nothing to do with it.

I'm not sure that the increasing commercial success is really caused by the slowing of the surfaces. There is a lot of other variable involved such as broadcasting abilities, advertising abilities, and so on who may explain the commercial success. Faster courts could lead to commercial success too.

[spinovic]

Originally Posted by ark_28

You make a decent point in that some of John's best results come on slow courts because he has time to set up and use his explosive power!

But what screws John is a medium pace court his movement will never be on par with the say Novak or Rafa so it's hard to control the points by playing the right way with attacking tennis!

To be fair there are barely if any lighting quick courts any more but just looking at how John's game would work on such a surface and you have to like his chances, movement wouldn't be an issue as his serve would be very difficult if not impossible to returning on an old school lightning fast court! Then if the other guy got nervous and missed a few first serves John could take some big swings and jus needs one break and the set is as good as his! Or win one point on the other guys serve in the breaker.

This is why the tournament organisers are wrong to not exploit this and prepare a an abosolutely lightning fast deck! It would have rewarded attacking tennis and prevented yet another battle of attrition!

I disagree. The slower courts suit Isner's game better. His movement isn't that good and from what I've seen he's not that good at the net. He's much more comfortable (and better at) taking the early advantage with his big serve and then dictating the point by hitting his forehand from favorable position.

Big serve + forehand. That are his two strengths. Everything else about Isner's game is average or worse.

[Flash O'Groove]

Originally Posted by spinovic

I disagree. The slower courts suit Isner's game better. His movement isn't that good and from what I've seen he's not that good at the net. He's much more comfortable (and better at) taking the early advantage with his big serve and then dictating the point by hitting his forehand from favorable position.

Big serve + forehand. That are his two strengths. Everything else about Isner's game is average or worse.

What is Isner need is a high bounce, as he is tall. Beside, a higher bounce "slow" the ball as it needs more time to reach the other guy after the bounce (bigger distance to travel).

[cluckcluck]

A contact of mine who works as a hitting partner for some of the pros just tweeted this:

"Once the @BNPPARIBASOPEN balls get a little worn, they feel pressure-less and don't go anywhere on these slower courts! #BNPPO13"

[single_handed_champion]

Originally Posted by ark_28

just looking at how John's game would work on such a surface and you have to like his chances, movement wouldn't be an issue as his serve would be very difficult if not impossible to returning on an old school lightning fast court! Then if the other guy got nervous and missed a few first serves John could take some big swings and jus needs one break and the set is as good as his! Or win one point on the other guys serve in the breaker.

LOL, it is just the opposite. Opponents know he is useless on return and so if they can just stab a few returns back, they have a > 50% chance of winning every point. Pretty much what happens in most of his matches these days. Fewer tiebreaks and just 1 break the opponent needs to win routine sets. IMO Isner would be in trouble on lightning-fast courts. You will find that the counterpunchers prefer playing on such courts, and unless you are a Roger Federer type, an aggressive-minded player does not necessarily thrive more than usual.

[spinovic]

Originally Posted by Flash O'Groove

What is Isner need is a high bounce, as he is tall. Beside, a higher bounce "slow" the ball as it needs more time to reach the other guy after the bounce (bigger distance to travel).

I agree. The bounce he gets on his serve(s) is perhaps the feature that causes opponents the most problem.

These guys are great returners. They aren't going to get aced out of a match, IMO. They will get Isner's serve back in play, and a fast court will keep the ball down and more in their strike zone.

But, the real problem, IMO, is the reverse side. Isner's disadvantage when returning serve is exponentially increase on a fast service. I guy like Federer would probably average 60-70 seconds per hold.

[SassyRamirez]

Originally Posted by Flash O'Groove

I'm not sure that the increasing commercial success is really caused by the slowing of the surfaces. There is a lot of other variable involved such as broadcasting abilities, advertising abilities, and so on who may explain the commercial success. Faster courts could lead to commercial success too.

The idea that audiences are asking for ultra slow courts everywhere is total hogwash of the highest order.

Go and watch matches in Paris 2010 and the audiences were super in to the matches, and their were plenty of great rallies and points.

Honestly the crowd here in IW this past week has been mostly dead really, I'm not really seeing the crowds going nuts over ultra slow gritty courts.

[BrooklynNY]

I seriously saw a fan grinding his buckteeth down on the baseline on court 4

[SassyRamirez]

Nadia Petrova just complained about the court speed during her match against the pusher Wozniacki.

[cluckcluck]

Originally Posted by SassyRamirez

Nadia Petrova just complained about the court speed during her match against the pusher Wozniacki.

Missed it, what was her complaint?

[SassyRamirez]

Originally Posted by cluckcluck

Missed it, what was her complaint?

Nothing much, just said to her coach that "the court is SOOOO slow.".

[Federer20042006]

All that stuff I said about Indian Wells being pretty low bouncing...well, we can put that in the past tense.

Holy .... this is making Miami look like 90s Wimbledon.

[Bartelby]

Slow courts and big balls suit the television audience.

[SassyRamirez]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

Slow courts and big balls suit the television audience.

6hr grindfests aren't sustainable, people don't have the time to watch that stuff.

Variety and good tennis suits the television audiences.

Some of the matches here are just dreadful.

[Goosehead]

i caught a bit of novak vs querrey this morning early on (1:50am finish over there)

the court seemed quicker, the ball wasnt sticking to the court but coming off at a decent pace.., but seemed ok..maybe a worn court helps the speed a bit, or the night desert air

[Relinquis]

murray said in an interview that during the evening the ball bounces lower and travels slower than during in the heat during the day.

[War, Safin!]

Would speeding-up the hardcourts (and while we're at it, changing Wimbeldon grass to how it was), make players change their overall playing-strategy?

Would guys like Gulbis, Berdych, Tsonga, Raonic, Del Potro, Cilic suddenly start to serve-and-volley more?
Do they (or anyone else) even know how to serve-and-volley?

[spinovic]

Originally Posted by War, Safin!

Would speeding-up the hardcourts (and while we're at it, changing Wimbeldon grass to how it was), make players change their overall playing-strategy?

Would guys like Gulbis, Berdych, Tsonga, Raonic, Del Potro, Cilic suddenly start to serve-and-volley more?
Do they (or anyone else) even know how to serve-and-volley?

I think Tsonga could do it. I have my doubts about the others though. None of them have looked overly impressive as volleyers when I've seen them. Not saying they're bad, but they're not great.

Gulbis is the exception. I've been impressed with his volleying in the recent matches I've watched, but that's a small sample. I haven't seen him enough.

Federer is a great volleyer, so I'm guessing he would incorporate S&V as a big part of his game on faster surfaces. The other 3 top guys aren't great volleyers either.

[Tiebreak100]

Originally Posted by War, Safin!

Would speeding-up the hardcourts (and while we're at it, changing Wimbeldon grass to how it was), make players change their overall playing-strategy?

Would guys like Gulbis, Berdych, Tsonga, Raonic, Del Potro, Cilic suddenly start to serve-and-volley more?
Do they (or anyone else) even know how to serve-and-volley?

You do not seriously want the grass from the past to return? Whilst the purist may enjoy 3 shot tennis, the floating fans will switch off in huge numbers. Why should the court speed be faster to suit the big hitters? The majority of the big hitters are usually of considerable height, which is already a distinct advantage.

Players like Isner and Raonic should be intelligent enough to do better than they currently do, but they are clearly weak in certain key aspects of the game. By increasing the prominence of the serve by speeding up the court, you will see guys with gaping flaws in their game being unduly rewarded. That is not a positive step forward.

From a British perspective, I do not want my Slam tournament to be the one predominantly about serve. We have been there before, and it is dull as dishwater. Sampras won 7 Wimbledon titles, yet he was never that popular with the UK public; simply because people did not like watching his brand of tennis.