Which Nadal will show up?

[Blinkism]

Originally Posted by tudwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkeVkYq8Es

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J---aiyznGQ

[bolo]

Originally Posted by LiveForever

LOL. Nadal fans loading up on excuses. Its always the same. Nadal played well in the last few tournaments and got his ass handed to him by big hitters. There is no such thing as pusher Nadal, agressive Nadal etc. There is one Nadal and he likes looping balls into the court which get pummeled away by guys like Djokovic, Cilic, Del Potro on quicker surfaces.

oh, but you do agree his serve has been below normal in his comeback?

[namelessone]

Originally Posted by LiveForever

LOL. Nadal fans loading up on excuses. Its always the same. Nadal played well in the last few tournaments and got his ass handed to him by big hitters. There is no such thing as pusher Nadal, agressive Nadal etc. There is one Nadal and he likes looping balls into the court which get pummeled away by guys like Djokovic, Cilic, Del Potro on quicker surfaces.

Shows how much you know about Nadal... Nadal is mediocre nowadays even by his not so great HC standards. The fact that Nadal plays pusher sometimes nowadays shows that he is way off his game and doesn't really have confidence in his shots. I haven't seen Nadal play exclusively defensive tennis like in the Davy match(9 winners versus 28 in his match with tsonga,for example) since early in his career when he didn't really have offensive shots,especially on slower surfaces.

When Nadal plays pusher like in the davydenko match he is a disgrace to tennis and his fans are very dissapointed. That's why we would rather have him play like the Nadal of old,with a more confident attitude and counterpunching game,and getting beat on HC while playing tennis than playing this pusher type of game where he just waits for the opponent to beat himself. Seeing the moonballs he was looping in that short practice vid with Fed doesn't make me very confident about his chances,as he will probably come with the same crappy game and get beat again.

Davis Cup is Nadal's objective,not WTF,at least that's my take on it.

[rafan]

Originally Posted by namelessone

Shows how much you know about Nadal... Nadal is mediocre nowadays even by his not so great HC standards. The fact that Nadal plays pusher sometimes nowadays shows that he is way off his game and doesn't really have confidence in his shots. I haven't seen Nadal play exclusively defensive tennis like in the Davy match(9 winners versus 28 in his match with tsonga,for example) since early in his career when he didn't really have offensive shots,especially on slower surfaces.

When Nadal plays pusher like in the davydenko match he is a disgrace to tennis and his fans are very dissapointed. That's why we would rather have him play like the Nadal of old,with a more confident attitude and counterpunching game,and getting beat on HC while playing tennis than playing this pusher type of game where he just waits for the opponent to beat himself. Seeing the moonballs he was looping in that short practice vid with Fed doesn't make me very confident about his chances,as he will probably come with the same crappy game and get beat again.

Davis Cup is Nadal's objective,not WTF,at least that's my take on it.

Yes there is much I would agree with. I didn't like the moonballs at all. I just think uncle toni is giving out his limited repertoire of "what shall we try next" It's time Rafa moved on. He is needs a new slant on his game.... a new coach. He's going to meet aggressive players from the start from tomorrow and there will be no time just to try things out. I hope he has a better game plan than he had against Dkjokovic. The Nadal of old was amazing. He was an Indiana Jones character who had enormous guts and got on with it and it worked. Come back Rafa - come back

[LiveForever]

Originally Posted by namelessone

Shows how much you know about Nadal... Nadal is mediocre nowadays even by his not so great HC standards. The fact that Nadal plays pusher sometimes nowadays shows that he is way off his game and doesn't really have confidence in his shots. I haven't seen Nadal play exclusively defensive tennis like in the Davy match(9 winners versus 28 in his match with tsonga,for example) since early in his career when he didn't really have offensive shots,especially on slower surfaces.

When Nadal plays pusher like in the davydenko match he is a disgrace to tennis and his fans are very dissapointed. That's why we would rather have him play like the Nadal of old,with a more confident attitude and counterpunching game,and getting beat on HC while playing tennis than playing this pusher type of game where he just waits for the opponent to beat himself. Seeing the moonballs he was looping in that short practice vid with Fed doesn't make me very confident about his chances,as he will probably come with the same crappy game and get beat again.

Davis Cup is Nadal's objective,not WTF,at least that's my take on it.

I know plently about Nadal. I have been watching tennis for more than a decade now. It is not my fault that you are his fanboy and always cry when he loses to players that are superior to him on these fast courts. Nadal has always struggled with consistent big hitters. Why dont you get it out of the way and say that your man Nadal is incapable of losing to people and the only reason he loses is because pusher and moonballer Nadal shows up instead of the real Rafa.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by rafan

Yes there is much I would agree with. I didn't like the moonballs at all. I just think uncle toni is giving out his limited repertoire of "what shall we try next" It's time Rafa moved on. He is needs a new slant on his game.... a new coach. He's going to meet aggressive players from the start from tomorrow and there will be no time just to try things out. I hope he has a better game plan than he had against Dkjokovic. The Nadal of old was amazing. He was an Indiana Jones character who had enormous guts and got on with it and it worked. Come back Rafa - come back

I remember nadal mentioning that toni offered to no longer be nadal's coach maybe in early 2008 and nadal said no. It's an interesting question about whether he should take on another coach. I don't think he should drop toni, but getting a todd martin like djokovic has done is a good idea imo.

[LiveForever]

Originally Posted by bolo

oh, but you do agree his serve has been below normal in his comeback?

Yes. I agree with this. Nadals serve has never been good but he was making it better and better since 2008. He throws in some really powderpuff serves now that get munched up. However, it is important to note that these big hitters Nadal has played have some monster returns and the pressure probably causes Nadal to dink some of those serves.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by GustafsonFanatic

^ Why is everyone always bringing up that Tsonga Match in Paris? I just watched it a few days ago, and it's obvious that Tsonga was better until about 5-5 in the first set and then sharply declined.

Originally Posted by Bud

Lol! You're dreaming. Go watch it again.

Just look at the match stats for each set.

Originally Posted by GustafsonFanatic

I remember Tsonga holding at love twice. Nadal went 0-40 down on his serve once. Altogether Tsonga had 5 BPs and Nadal 3 (he converted 1, which is the only thing that counts). Tsonga was clearly better before 5-5 (when my video skipped a few games). Commentators mentioned it couple of times.

Nadal was better in the second set, though

Stats show Rafa by a mile in the first set.

Look at the winners to UE's (Tsonga 0 - Rafa +9)

[tudwell]

Originally Posted by Blinkism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J---aiyznGQ

[namelessone]

Originally Posted by LiveForever

I know plently about Nadal. I have been watching tennis for more than a decade now. It is not my fault that you are his fanboy and always cry when he loses to players that are superior to him on these fast courts. Nadal has always struggled with consistent big hitters. Why dont you get it out of the way and say that your man Nadal is incapable of losing to people and the only reason he loses is because pusher and moonballer Nadal shows up instead of the real Rafa.

Well LiveForever,first of all,lose the attitude and stop with the generalizations. If I am a fan of Nadal so I must act like some of the tards,right?
I am talking about Nadal's playing style,which was different before his injuries,even when he was losing on HC. But I'm guessing you haven't watched enough Nadal matches to see the difference. It's one thing to have a matchup issue on HC against bighitters and another with almost all the players you encounter on HC since your return. Yes,Nadal is playing pusher at times now and it's not the tennis I am used to from him. Look,Nadal played more tennis when he lost last year to Davy in Miami with a much worse scoreline then with the pusher crap he did this year in Shanghai. At least we know he tried. If you keep it strictly on the defensive,you don't try. If you don't hit slice everything back when you have a perfectly good BH,you don't try. If you stop hitting DTL's,you don't try. If Nadal is just sitting there,hitting moonballs all day long,he is not Nadal,not in my eyes. Nadal would hit great passing shots,he would try to destroy BH only to go for that classic I/O FH of his and he would be more aggressive at times,even though the bulk of his game was defense.

When Nadal is coming into WTF playing the worse tennis out of anyone here,let me say that he is nowhere near his best level game-wise(yes,even for his HC standards) and that victories over him nowadays are pretty easy to obtain. And before you go there,it doesn't take anything away from his opponents. It's the cold hard facts which most of the tennis world agrees on.Nadal is now the easiest target in the top 8 present in London. Only someone who is delusional would say that Nadal is playing the way he always played on HC. If he had always played like this,he wouldn't even have made semi's,let alone finals in HC masters or Slams.

[LiveForever]

Originally Posted by namelessone

Well LiveForever,first of all,lose the attitude and stop with the generalizations. If I am a fan of Nadal so I must act like some of the tards,right?
I am talking about Nadal's playing style,which was different before his injuries,even when he was losing on HC. But I'm guessing you haven't watched enough Nadal matches to see the difference. It's one thing to have a matchup issue on HC against bighitters and another with almost all the players you encounter on HC since your return. Yes,Nadal is playing pusher at times now and it's not the tennis I am used to from him. Look,Nadal played more tennis when he lost last year to Davy in Miami with a much worse scoreline then with the pusher crap he did this year in Shanghai. At least we know he tried. If you keep it strictly on the defensive,you don't try. If you don't hit slice everything back when you have a perfectly good BH,you don't try. If you stop hitting DTL's,you don't try. If Nadal is just sitting there,hitting moonballs all day long,he is not Nadal,not in my eyes. Nadal would hit great passing shots,he would try to destroy BH only to go for that classic I/O FH of his and he would be more aggressive at times,even though the bulk of his game was defense.

When Nadal is coming into WTF playing the worse tennis out of anyone here,let me say that he is nowhere near his best level game-wise(yes,even for his HC standards) and that victories over him nowadays are pretty easy to obtain. And before you go there,it doesn't take anything away from his opponents. It's the cold hard facts which most of the tennis world agrees on.Nadal is now the easiest target in the top 8 present in London. Only someone who is delusional would say that Nadal is playing the way he always played on HC. If he had always played like this,he wouldn't even have made semi's,let alone finals in HC masters or Slams.

That is fine. We will agree to disagree and I apologize for my atitude but you were pretty condescending yourself by saying I dont know anything about Nadal just because I disagree with you. Just to let you know, I dont consider a player consistently making SFs and Finals on his worst surface to be struggling.

[GustafsonFanatic]

Originally Posted by Bud

Stats show Rafa by a mile in the first set.

Look at the winners to UE's (Tsonga 0 - Rafa +9)

Tsonga still has more winners and he was up 40-0 once on Nadal's serve and he had more BPs. Tsonga was better until late in the first set. I dont know what happened after 5-5 because my video clip is missing those 2 crucial games at the end.