wrist snap continued

[Greg G]

Looking good Lambsheadrep! Work on keeping your balance, which is related to getting there early. It's my issue as well

[TheLambsheadrep]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

yea that shot at 1:12 looked good. had a nice pop on it too.

Thanks. I'm prob gonna record again this week, and the things I want to really focus on are holding the grip lower, more PTD (with that 60-70 degree back swing position), leading with the butt cap, and split stepping between shots (just for you Cheetah :P ).

For lowering the grip, do you think what I said before - spinning the racquet (just one half turn) between shots - is a good option for recreating the feel every time?

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by TheLambsheadrep

Thanks. I'm prob gonna record again this week, and the things I want to really focus on are holding the grip lower, more PTD (with that 60-70 degree back swing position), leading with the butt cap, and split stepping between shots (just for you Cheetah :P ).

For lowering the grip, do you think what I said before - spinning the racquet (just one half turn) between shots - is a good option for recreating the feel every time?

I'm not sure about that. I think that's personal preference. I spin between shots but i don't give it any thought. i just do it to keep the hands loose and to keep the tension out of my hands and arms. I also don't hold the racquet by the grip when i'm walking back to the service line or between points for the same reason (grabbing by the throat). i learned that trick from boris becker years back.

I see a lot of ppl here talking about spinning the racquet but i ignore those convos so i don't know what they are saying regarding the spinning.

I'm guessing the grip change will take about 3 weeks. If you stick w/ it for 3 weeks you won't go back to your previous grip.. you'll see.

[TheLambsheadrep]

Hey Cheetah, no recent vids but a question or two.

I just posted a thread about the two most common ways to hold the racquet - "pistol" and "hammer" - and in it I say that I've been trying out the hammer a little bit recently and thought I felt my wrist being more loose. What do you think about this?

Also, I've been trying to make the PTD position a habit and think I am making progress. After trying the hammer grip, I felt the racquet just DROP at the end of my back swing right before any forward swing. I mean, it was the equivalent of falling through a trap door, but for my wrist. I thought it was weird at first, and then realized it's probably what a completely loose wrist feels like. Without the support given by the extended index finger of the pistol grip, is the SSC more easily achieved?

If I can prevent any arm/wrist interference from just letting the racquet drop down (like described above), the arm naturally supinates big time. This opens up the racquet when the PTD position should be happening such that the racquet face is no longer near parallel with the ground. Is that too much supination, should there still be some control over how the arm moves down so gravity doesn't take all the way over? Would a video help show what I mean?

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by TheLambsheadrep

Hey Cheetah, no recent vids but a question or two.

I just posted a thread about the two most common ways to hold the racquet - "pistol" and "hammer" - and in it I say that I've been trying out the hammer a little bit recently and thought I felt my wrist being more loose. What do you think about this?

Also, I've been trying to make the PTD position a habit and think I am making progress. After trying the hammer grip, I felt the racquet just DROP at the end of my back swing right before any forward swing. I mean, it was the equivalent of falling through a trap door, but for my wrist. I thought it was weird at first, and then realized it's probably what a completely loose wrist feels like. Without the support given by the extended index finger of the pistol grip, is the SSC more easily achieved?

If I can prevent any arm/wrist interference from just letting the racquet drop down (like described above), the arm naturally supinates big time. This opens up the racquet when the PTD position should be happening such that the racquet face is no longer near parallel with the ground. Is that too much supination, should there still be some control over how the arm moves down so gravity doesn't take all the way over? Would a video help show what I mean?

Yes post a quick video if you could so I don't misinterpret. Or even a video of someone else doing something similar that you are referring to if possible.

[TheLambsheadrep]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Yes post a quick video if you could so I don't misinterpret. Or even a video of someone else doing something similar that you are referring to if possible.

Sorry it took so long, got of topic with the other thread. Here's a vid of me slowing the swing down to show the wrist drop. Since I was altering the swing speed, I wasn't 100% consistent, but the general idea is shown every time. The first one is the best i think, there was so much natural motion from the drop that i hit the back of my calf haha. With a full speed swing, the racquet head doesn't drop down as much, but still has the big supination. Btw, this was using Nadal/Novak's hammer grip.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38221599@N05/8604098815

and this is the vid of nadal ive been watching lately, he gets the racquet so far behind his back it's silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ7fWm1gPtY

[Cheetah]

Nope.
one day you're going to look at that vid and say 'omg. wth was i thinking??'

lol.. been there done that. but sorry. you're not getting it yet. i know exactly what you're going through.

If I were you I would forget what you're doing right there and don't shadow that anymore. It's not correct so no need to reinforce it.

and ... ok.. that grip.... u are definitely approaching hammer grip there. something's a little weird with it. not sure yet. I'd have to see a clear pic of it.

I'll grab some screenshots and show you why what you are doing in that vid is wrong... 30 mins

while i do that answer this...
to do what you are trying to do (get ssc etc etc) is the same as if you were holding a piece of rope the length of a tennis racquet with a tennis ball connected at the end of the string. now lets say you are holding the rope and a tennis ball is heading towards you over the net and you have to hit the oncoming tennis ball with the ball that is connected to the 27inch rope you are holding. you have to whip the ball around on the rope and hit the oncoming ball. get it?

if you were doing that do you think your swing and rope path would like the swing and racquet path in that vid you just posted?

[TheLambsheadrep]

Cheetah, I wasn't interested in the SSC with this. All I was thinking of was letting the wrist drop, it was just something I noticed without the support of the extended index finger. Don't worry about analyzing it too much, I just wanted to point out the difference I felt in a quick video

[TheLambsheadrep]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Nope.
and ... ok.. that grip.... u are definitely approaching hammer grip there. something's a little weird with it. not sure yet. I'd have to see a clear pic of it.

It may be that I wasn't holding the grip as low as a could have/should have. Again, I was just trying to get a quick video example of the motion before my hitting session began today

[TheLambsheadrep]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

If I were you I would forget what you're doing right there and don't shadow that anymore. It's not correct so no need to reinforce it

OK, simple enough. I will get a vid up soon of my most recent strokes to prove that what you're telling me is sinking in haha.

About the Nadal video for a sec - between that video and most of Fed's videos, I'm seeing Nadal's racquet whip further behind his back at the beginning of his forward swing, I'd pretty much say much further. Would you say it's because Nadal's elbow also goes further behind his back then Fed's does? That's what I'm thinking...

[Cheetah]

oh. ok
,......

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by TheLambsheadrep

OK, simple enough. I will get a vid up soon of my most recent strokes to prove that what you're telling me is sinking in haha.

About the Nadal video for a sec - between that video and most of Fed's videos, I'm seeing Nadal's racquet whip further behind his back at the beginning of his forward swing, I'd pretty much say much further. Would you say it's because Nadal's elbow also goes further behind his back then Fed's does? That's what I'm thinking...

I hope you're not swinging like u were in that last vid. that would be pretty messed up.

Regarding Nadal, Yea i guess. He has a more violent motion.

[TheLambsheadrep]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

I hope you're not swinging like u were in that last vid. that would be pretty messed up.

Regarding Nadal, Yea i guess. He has a more violent motion.

There prob is some wrist drop (a result of a loose wrist), but not to the level that was in the video. For the video, to make sure there was enough time to see what I was talking about, I delayed the forward swing. That may have been what I was doing all along and made me think there was a big supination. Well, ya there'd be, if you don't swing forward to get to the natural pronation, there's nothing to balance out the supination haha. Idk, I thought I had picked up on something, but it doesn't occur in a real play setting.

I will get video of my regular fh pistol grip strokes, me trying some fh hammer grip strokes, and the western forehand I can hit with a "standard" hammer grip (knuckles all on one bevel) strokes up soon.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by TheLambsheadrep

if you don't swing forward to get to the natural pronation...

correct.
.....

[TomT]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

... to do what you are trying to do (get ssc etc etc) is the same as if you were holding a piece of rope the length of a tennis racquet with a tennis ball connected at the end of the string. now lets say you are holding the rope and a tennis ball is heading towards you over the net and you have to hit the oncoming tennis ball with the ball that is connected to the 27inch rope you are holding. you have to whip the ball around on the rope and hit the oncoming ball. get it?
...

I was casually perusing the threads here and happened on this. I think it just might help me to improve my forehand. After shadow swinging using this visualization, I'm encouraged enough to spend some time tomorrow experimenting with it on court (or at least at the wall if I can't get a hitting partner). One of my problems, at least I think it's a problem, has been in optimizing my arm extension regarding normal forehand groundstroke hitting. I'll let you know if your suggestion/visualization helps facilitate that.

@TheLambsheadrep,
Nice thread. Enjoying your vids, and comments from you, Cheetah, et al. You are talented. Best of luck with your continued improvement.