WORLD NO. 1 (by year)

[pc1]

Originally Posted by borg number one

I've read that the "head to head" matchups (where they would play about 100 matches total during a year against each other) with folks like Trabert and Kramer occurred during the 1950's, am I right?

Folks, I'm asking: weren't those primarily played indoors on a fast surface (carpet?) or other hard surfaces?

If so, that would have definitely helped as far as matchups with folks like Hoad, Rosewall, and Trabert. When he faced off against Kramer, he was just a "rookie", while Kramer was a seasoned veteran, so he definitely got some great "tennis lessons" in the process.

Having said that, I tend to agree that PG was an incredible and great player. Perhaps HE was the greatest serve and volleyer in the History of the Game? Mcenroe vs. Gonzales?

There's a reason why so many know his name. What personality and flair to back up incredible talent!

That's why I tend to give less credence to the fact that people point out that because Jack Kramer crushed Pancho Gonzalez on tour 96 matches to 27 that Kramer deserves a higher place among the GOAT candidates than Gonzalez. Gonzalez was young, inexperienced against a veteran many years older.

Gonzalez was a gifted player, tall about 6'3 and a half inches tall, very mobile, strong and with possibly the greatest serve in the history of tennis. It's like Agassi said about Sampras, Pete can play badly for 42 minutes, have one good minute and win the set. I think you could say the same about Gonzalez.

I know Arthur Ashe in the late 1970's ranked Pancho Gonzalez's serve as the best he had ever seen.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Carlo Giovanni Colussi

I changed the "World Tennis or Michel Sutter," I've originally written in "World Tennis and Michel Sutter," (my original "or" was inclusive and not exclusive). As urban recalled that World Tennis had Vilas on cover. Sutter claimed that Vilas #1 in his books "Les Meilleurs Du Tennis" (published in January 1978 ) and "Vainqueurs 1946-1991". So these sources are completely different.

I've gone in there myself just now and change the spelling of Steve Flink's name (from Fink).

Carlo, I don't remember where, but we were talking about how Lendl said he slowed down the pace of his play after learning it from certain players. I wasn't able to find the quote I'd remembered, but I found it by dumb luck tonight, reading about the (Jan.) 1986 Masters final with Becker:

"He likes to fast-serve me sometimes," Lendl said, "not in the sense that he would do it unfairly; he just is faster than I am. But when I was younger, I was always ready and always had to wait, especially with (Jimmy) Connors and (John) McEnroe. I just learned to play slower because of those two guys. I think Boris will have to learn that, too." (Toledo Blade)

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Originally Posted by borg number one

...
Folks, I'm asking: weren't those primarily played indoors on a fast surface (carpet?) or other hard surfaces? ...

Most of the time the North American (and not US because I think (not certain) that Canada was always visited) tours were played
on canvas (faster than XXth century grass) laid on wooden or even ice grounds (for instance you can watch photos of the Gonzales-Rosewall opener in the US at the MSG on Feb. 17, 1957 showing the ice rink beneath the canvas)
or on wood (some wooden floors being themselves faster than canvas) for example at the 7th Regiment Armory in New York.
Of course there were some "spring" stops on outdoor clay or cement courts but in winter most of the one-night stands were, for obvious reasons of weather, played indoors.

For instance in the Gonzales-Segura-Sedgman-Budge (Earn-Riggs) tour in 1954, the event at Peeble Beach, California (February 22) was the (about) 28th 4-man tournament of the tour (most of these events were one-day tournaments played in pro sets; the best-of-three set tournaments with two 1st round meetings and a final round and a third place match were played on 2 successive days; the round-robin affair at Philadelphia lasted even 3 days, on January 5-7)
and was the first held outdoors. For instance the previous one was held indoors on a fast surface at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles.
For the little story here are the results :
February 19-20, 1954
Los Angeles, Olympic Auditorium, $10,000
according to Budge : a fast indoor court (but I don't know if it was on canvas or wood)
1R Budge d. Gonzales 86 64
1R Segura d. Sedgman 97 97
3rd place : Gonzales d. Sedgman 62 64
F Segura (first prize $4,000) d. Budge d 63 57 75.
Budge, near 39 years old, played at least 44 matches (and possibly more) in that tour from January 3 to March 25
and his only tour win was that Gonzales's defeat at Los Angeles after 34 previous losses against the trio of Gonzales-Segura-Sedgman.
Then Carl Earn replaced Budge in the 4-man tour until the World Pro Champs (US Pro) held at Cleveland, April 28-May 2, where Budge made a short tennis competition return beating there Riggs and Earn, before losing to Gonzales in the semis.
Then the 4-man tour resumed for a month with this time Riggs replacing Earn.
Riggs, 36 years old, lost his first 12 meetings then in his 13th tour match he beat Gonzales 8-6 (before losing 8-1 to Sedgman in the final) in Victoria (Canada, British Columbia) on May 20, 1954.

The bad habit of playing indoor events on true hard surfaces has come in modern times and especially in 2009 when all the indoor events of the main circuit were held for the first time exclusively on those surfaces which hurt very strongly the players' articulations : there is no more indoor synthetic or carpet courts except in the Futures (and perhaps) Challenger tourneys.

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Originally Posted by krosero

I've gone in there myself just now and change the spelling of Steve Flink's name (from Fink).

Carlo, I don't remember where, but we were talking about how Lendl said he slowed down the pace of his play after learning it from certain players. I wasn't able to find the quote I'd remembered, but I found it by dumb luck tonight, reading about the (Jan.) 1986 Masters final with Becker:

Quote:
"He likes to fast-serve me sometimes," Lendl said, "not in the sense that he would do it unfairly; he just is faster than I am. But when I was younger, I was always ready and always had to wait, especially with (Jimmy) Connors and (John) McEnroe. I just learned to play slower because of those two guys. I think Boris will have to learn that, too." (Toledo Blade)

Thank you for the precision and for correcting my original thought.

[borg number one]

Thanks Carlo for that clarification and verification. I appreciate it. It's a wonder that those guys could play so fast and SO MANY matches head to head against strong rivals. That takes a lot of "mettle", because back then, they would try to win for $1 and pride alone (I'm being somewhat facetious)! Yes, it would be a different game on such fast surfaces. Players in the open/modern era would definitely have to make major adjustments if such indoor events existed.

[jeffreyneave]

a tie between gonzales and sedgman is a good judgement. In 1953 sedgman after his great amateur 1952, turned pro and lost a close tour 54-41 against kramer. later in the year sedgman beat gonzales 3-0 in europan tournaments. in '52 gonzales had been the dominant pro with a 3-0 record against kramer and 5-2 against segura. therefore its not clear who was the best player in '52 given the results in '53.

jeffrey