Junior players(16+) question for you....

momtogrif · 11-13-2009, 06:26 PM

I have a son who just turned 11 and is hooked on playing tournaments. He just moved into the 12s division and he's having a really hard time with the level of play. He's got great shots, if he would just learn to use them in match play. He looks awesome in his lessons and then we see a whole different kid out there while he's playing out points. Hitting long, trying to slice when he shouldn't, etc.

Honestly, I don't have a big problem with it but what I want is advice for what works. Is it more private lessons? Is it tournament play where he keeps losing to better players? I keep thinking that the tournaments might just let him 'get used to losing' so to speak, so I'm thinking of pulling him out of tournaments. Right now this is his schedule: 2 privates a week(1 hour each), 1 group lesson(1 hour), 4 hours of after school clinic, junior team tennis practice once a week, and my husband takes him out about 2x a week for about 2 hours at a time. On weekends where we don't have tournaments, he will play team tennis matches.

So, any suggestions or are we doing OK? I don't want him to burn out and hate tennis by the time he's 15. I have no motives to get him into D1 college tennis, I just want him to enjoy the game but to also put in the effort if he's going to commit to it.

tennismom42 · 11-13-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtogrif

I have a son who just turned 11 and is hooked on playing tournaments. He just moved into the 12s division and he's having a really hard time with the level of play. He's got great shots, if he would just learn to use them in match play. He looks awesome in his lessons and then we see a whole different kid out there while he's playing out points. Hitting long, trying to slice when he shouldn't, etc.

Honestly, I don't have a big problem with it but what I want is advice for what works. Is it more private lessons? Is it tournament play where he keeps losing to better players? I keep thinking that the tournaments might just let him 'get used to losing' so to speak, so I'm thinking of pulling him out of tournaments. Right now this is his schedule: 2 privates a week(1 hour each), 1 group lesson(1 hour), 4 hours of after school clinic, junior team tennis practice once a week, and my husband takes him out about 2x a week for about 2 hours at a time. On weekends where we don't have tournaments, he will play team tennis matches.

So, any suggestions or are we doing OK? I don't want him to burn out and hate tennis by the time he's 15. I have no motives to get him into D1 college tennis, I just want him to enjoy the game but to also put in the effort if he's going to commit to it.

Often boys need an outlet for their testoserone & tennis is a great avenue for it. Many good things will be derived from his tennis journey over the next decade. I don't see any problems with his practice schedule. Looks identical to what my son did at that age. Age 11 seems to be a commitment age. Many kids are forced to chose one sport and forget the rest. So many sports are year round now. He sounds very committed to tennis. You don't say what level of tennis he's playing. Nonetheless, please know it's normal for an 11 year old to lose a lot in the 12s age group. That's because there's a big disparity in the hormonal growth between 11 and nearly 13. Remember, he could be playing someone who is almost 13. Do not pull him out of a tournament. He'll hate your guts for it. It's a guy thing. Leave it at that. He's approching the age where you can drive & swipe, but you know nothing important. Again, hormones, etc. I think he knows he has to serve his time and duke it out with the big boys. It's just tough on parents to watch. You will see, he will start winning a few more matches, each tournament. Before you know it, it will feel like gambling, chasing points, throwing good $$ after bad, politics, drama, dreams.... the journey.

TennisCoachFLA · 11-13-2009, 07:21 PM

Well I am a little older than 16, but I can make a suggestion.

Kids need to learn how to play matches. Once he has practiced and has all the shots, there are 2 issues in tournaments....confidence and execution. And once he learns to execute, the confidence will follow.

I suggest you buy the book "Coaching Tennis by Chuck Kriese". Go to the chapter about the 'Wardlaw Directionals'.

These are simple strategies to execute during a match. In other words, where to hit the ball in various situations and what shots to hit. They can be practiced in simulated matches. He can start with 1-2 simple ones that are easy to remember and add more as he progresses.

A tennis player actually 'runs plays' just like a quarterback or a point guard. In the case of tennis, the 'plays' are a sequence of 3-4 shots that result in a higher chance of winning a point. You son will develop a play book, just like in any other sport. His play book will grow as he grows.

Many kids have all the shots but have not learned how and when to use them. Thus they look great in practice but can not win matches. Sadly, many tennis pros teach kids the shots but not how and when to use them.

TennisTaxi · 11-13-2009, 07:24 PM

The hardest part of jr. tennis is "aging up," I remember 10's-12's was the hardest for my son but by the time he played for a few months in a new division...things worked themselves out.

In each age group, the level of play changes significantly and kids try to compensate the best they can...they will dig into their bag of tricks and try everything and usually nothing will work, and us parents see it as them messing up. They will slice into the net over and over, miss drop shots they never should have tried in the first place and hit the ball as hard as they can hitting the fence.

I use to say to myself (never to my son) that I cannot believe I am spending all this money on lessons... he would get on the court for a match and it looked like he had never had a lesson in his life...if only he could play a match like he does in practice, we have all been there....don't fret...it is part of jr. tennis. Just smile, tell him he did a good job and and before you know it, he will work his way through it.

Lastly, make sure you mention this to his coach, he should be working with your son on shot selection, play patterns and mental toughness...if not, find him a new coach.

SoCal10s · 11-13-2009, 08:00 PM

^^^Lastly, make sure you mention this to his coach, he should be working with your son on shot selection, play patterns and mental toughness...if not, find him a new coach.""

come on the kid just turned 11.. you want the coach to work on those things and forget hitting a better ball or fire that coach? wow...

tenniscrazed · 11-13-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtogrif

I have a son who just turned 11 and is hooked on playing tournaments. He just moved into the 12s division and he's having a really hard time with the level of play. He's got great shots, if he would just learn to use them in match play. He looks awesome in his lessons and then we see a whole different kid out there while he's playing out points. Hitting long, trying to slice when he shouldn't, etc.

Honestly, I don't have a big problem with it but what I want is advice for what works. Is it more private lessons? Is it tournament play where he keeps losing to better players? I keep thinking that the tournaments might just let him 'get used to losing' so to speak, so I'm thinking of pulling him out of tournaments. Right now this is his schedule: 2 privates a week(1 hour each), 1 group lesson(1 hour), 4 hours of after school clinic, junior team tennis practice once a week, and my husband takes him out about 2x a week for about 2 hours at a time. On weekends where we don't have tournaments, he will play team tennis matches.

So, any suggestions or are we doing OK? I don't want him to burn out and hate tennis by the time he's 15. I have no motives to get him into D1 college tennis, I just want him to enjoy the game but to also put in the effort if he's going to commit to it.

Read your own words, "burn out", "no motives into D1", "enjoy" yet your spending roughly $200 per week minimum or more. Take a week off, and establish yours and his/her motives to play then plan an appropriate schedule around that.

Example;

Professional.... I wouldn't care about burn out. If he or she want's to play pro tennis burn out is not even in the picture.

Good luck

Blake0 · 11-13-2009, 09:21 PM

It's his tennis maturity..basically he'll have to mature his tennis game and use the right shot selection...all a matter of time..usually. If he get's used to losing..he's beginning to quit.

If your son gives up easily, pull him out of tournaments and let him only play 1 a month. Other times let him play practice matches/ practice.

If he doesn't give up easily, keep him in tournaments, let him keep losing. If he can get past that slump, he'll develop more mentally. Ofcourse practice is still important.

Also too much tennis isn't a good thing, he might eventually get bored or worse, burned out with injury, especially since he's 11 and still is growing.

mozzer · 11-14-2009, 04:37 AM

Im 16 and have never had a private lesson. I personally dont think they can help, you either have the natural ability for racket sports or you dont. Remember, just my opinion.
Tournament play is the only way to improve, they wont hit easy feeds to your forehands or backhands like in a lesson...

TennisCoachFLA · 11-14-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mozzer

Im 16 and have never had a private lesson. I personally dont think they can help, you either have the natural ability for racket sports or you dont. Remember, just my opinion.
Tournament play is the only way to improve, they wont hit easy feeds to your forehands or backhands like in a lesson...

Well that is quite an interesting opinion. I suppose a kid could reach a certain level that way.

But I do believe Nadal, Federer, the Williams sisters, every top 1000 men and womens player, and every single Division 1, 2, and 3 college player have had a few tennis lessons along the way!!!

TennisTaxi · 11-14-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal10s

^^^Lastly, make sure you mention this to his coach, he should be working with your son on shot selection, play patterns and mental toughness...if not, find him a new coach.""

come on the kid just turned 11.. you want the coach to work on those things and forget hitting a better ball or fire that coach? wow...

Yes, because this is what the coach needs to work on to enable him to "learn" to win...if he doesn't he will burn out!! JMHO

papatenis · 11-14-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtogrif

I have a son who just turned 11 and is hooked on playing tournaments. He just moved into the 12s division and he's having a really hard time with the level of play. He's got great shots, if he would just learn to use them in match play. He looks awesome in his lessons and then we see a whole different kid out there while he's playing out points. Hitting long, trying to slice when he shouldn't, etc.

Honestly, I don't have a big problem with it but what I want is advice for what works. Is it more private lessons? Is it tournament play where he keeps losing to better players? I keep thinking that the tournaments might just let him 'get used to losing' so to speak, so I'm thinking of pulling him out of tournaments. Right now this is his schedule: 2 privates a week(1 hour each), 1 group lesson(1 hour), 4 hours of after school clinic, junior team tennis practice once a week, and my husband takes him out about 2x a week for about 2 hours at a time. On weekends where we don't have tournaments, he will play team tennis matches.

So, any suggestions or are we doing OK? I don't want him to burn out and hate tennis by the time he's 15. I have no motives to get him into D1 college tennis, I just want him to enjoy the game but to also put in the effort if he's going to commit to it.

What is your motive for him to play tennis? Does your son want to take the lessons, workouts, team tennis, hitting with your husband?
It seems that you are pushing your son into tennis. Kids develop at different
stages, maybe your son is not ready to play tournaments. If you truly don't care about him playing college tennis, then the best thing for him is to play other sports, then let him decide later what sport he wants to focus on.
He is too young to playing that much tennis if he/you are not interested in play at least on the college tennis level.

andfor · 11-14-2009, 02:16 PM

Learning patterns are advanced but should be taught even to 11 yr. olds. Don't expect the youngsters to execute them right away. It takes time to see them actually put to use in tournament matches. As mentioned practicing them in supervised match play and situational drilling will help.

My experience watching the 12's and even in many older matches 14's and 16's the basics of consistency, depth, willingness to to run down shot after shot and positive emotional control will yield winning results. Sure shot selection, power, strategy, tactics and pure abilty come into play but the basics will win matches at many levels. Desire may also be a factor and should be measured by talking with your child about why he wants to play, etc.

Be sure to take it easy as kids develop at different rates. Encourage, fun, sportsmanship, effort and improvement. Not saying you are but often focusing on results may lead to poor match play and or possible burn out.

momtogrif · 11-14-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papatenis

What is your motive for him to play tennis? Does your son want to take the lessons, workouts, team tennis, hitting with your husband?
It seems that you are pushing your son into tennis. Kids develop at different
stages, maybe your son is not ready to play tournaments. If you truly don't care about him playing college tennis, then the best thing for him is to play other sports, then let him decide later what sport he wants to focus on.
He is too young to playing that much tennis if he/you are not interested in play at least on the college tennis level.

My motive is to keep him active. He chose tennis. Last year it was all about football, now it's tennis. He also gets out and plays golf periodically, too. He, for some reason, wants to do all this tennis. We've never pushed him to tennis. He played soccer for 2 years, flag football for 3 years, took karate lessons, played basketball for a season, and has tried his hand at golf. He just loves tennis.

As for college; I don't want to push college on him. He may want to start a business at the age of 18, maybe he wants to become a tennis pro instead of going to a 4 year university and he wants to go to a community school, maybe he'll want to play D1.....I don't know what he's going to become and I don't want to place unrealistic expectations on him at this age. In a few years, this may all become more clear as his academics get more intense, etc.

For now, we have the financial means to pay for the lessons and the clinics. That may change, or maybe it won't. I just don't want him to be the kid who sits around at home watching TV. I'd rather him be active and he's not a bad tennis player so we're encouraging him along this path.

fruitytennis1 · 11-14-2009, 06:36 PM

I wish i had that kind of willing financial means behind me. 1 lesson every other week and hours with buddies outside in about 40 degrees until it snows(then i shovel for court time) Sure spend 40 bucks on the science fair admission but nope no 9$ an hour court time financing! Ahh lifes not fair but ill be all the better for it.

USERNAME · 11-15-2009, 01:19 AM

Ah dont worry, he'll find his game at around the 14s-16s. It just takes alot of match play to really b able to handle shot selection in a tourny.

mozzer · 11-15-2009, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

Well that is quite an interesting opinion. I suppose a kid could reach a certain level that way.

But I do believe Nadal, Federer, the Williams sisters, every top 1000 men and womens player, and every single Division 1, 2, and 3 college player have had a few tennis lessons along the way!!!

Well yes of course, but i think that it requires a high level of natural skill and talent (like pros do) to get alot of improvement through lessons, i dont think that people without it could be taught a proper technique. What do i know though, you are the coach!

mozzer · 11-15-2009, 04:10 AM

lollllllllll wrong topic

TennisCoachFLA · 11-15-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mozzer

Well yes of course, but i think that it requires a high level of natural skill and talent (like pros do) to get alot of improvement through lessons, i dont think that people without it could be taught a proper technique. What do i know though, you are the coach!

I agree with you there. Some folks take lessons for years and years and are still awful and other kids go pretty far without lessons using their natural athletic ability.

chalkflewup · 11-16-2009, 03:27 AM

If you have the luxury of different level of tournaments nearby, I would suggest that you put some thought into which tournaments he plays in while his game develops. In Florida we have that luxury.

In the transition to 12s from 10s, I would place my son in tournaments by looking at the applicant list for the various age groups and then find the tournament/age group where:

25% are stronger players
25% are weaker players
50% would be a coin toss

If it looked like most of the kids are stronger (or weaker), than I wouldn't place my kid in that division. This usually gives the kid a good balance of winning/losing and still gives him/her the right level to work on his/her skills.

Hope that helps.

momtogrif · 11-17-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

If you have the luxury of different level of tournaments nearby, I would suggest that you put some thought into which tournaments he plays in while his game develops. In Florida we have that luxury.

In the transition to 12s from 10s, I would place my son in tournaments by looking at the applicant list for the various age groups and then find the tournament/age group where:

25% are stronger players
25% are weaker players
50% would be a coin toss

If it looked like most of the kids are stronger (or weaker), than I wouldn't place my kid in that division. This usually gives the kid a good balance of winning/losing and still gives him/her the right level to work on his/her skills.

Hope that helps.

Yep, I already am using this approach. There's a level 5 tournament coming up and he wanted to play in it. I looked at the applicants list and realized not one of the players is ranked underneath him and all of them are players who have kicked his rear in the past(or they're players who kicked the rears of those who kicked his rear, LOL). For now, we're sticking with Super sets, satellites and a few level 6 tournaments.

At the level 6 tournaments he usually pulls off one win, whether in the main draw or in consolations. He has won a few satellites or won the consolation finals, too. You see, in the 10s he was winning quite a bit. His first tournament was back in late March this year and he worked his way up to being number 10 in the Southwest by August. So, now here we are in the 12s and it's a whole new ballgame!!!

11-13-2009, 06:26 PM	#1
momtogrif New User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Beautiful Sonoran desert Posts: 83	Junior players(16+) question for you.... I have a son who just turned 11 and is hooked on playing tournaments. He just moved into the 12s division and he's having a really hard time with the level of play. He's got great shots, if he would just learn to use them in match play. He looks awesome in his lessons and then we see a whole different kid out there while he's playing out points. Hitting long, trying to slice when he shouldn't, etc. Honestly, I don't have a big problem with it but what I want is advice for what works. Is it more private lessons? Is it tournament play where he keeps losing to better players? I keep thinking that the tournaments might just let him 'get used to losing' so to speak, so I'm thinking of pulling him out of tournaments. Right now this is his schedule: 2 privates a week(1 hour each), 1 group lesson(1 hour), 4 hours of after school clinic, junior team tennis practice once a week, and my husband takes him out about 2x a week for about 2 hours at a time. On weekends where we don't have tournaments, he will play team tennis matches. So, any suggestions or are we doing OK? I don't want him to burn out and hate tennis by the time he's 15. I have no motives to get him into D1 college tennis, I just want him to enjoy the game but to also put in the effort if he's going to commit to it.

11-13-2009, 07:21 PM	#3
TennisCoachFLA Professional Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 871	Well I am a little older than 16, but I can make a suggestion. Kids need to learn how to play matches. Once he has practiced and has all the shots, there are 2 issues in tournaments....confidence and execution. And once he learns to execute, the confidence will follow. I suggest you buy the book "Coaching Tennis by Chuck Kriese". Go to the chapter about the 'Wardlaw Directionals'. These are simple strategies to execute during a match. In other words, where to hit the ball in various situations and what shots to hit. They can be practiced in simulated matches. He can start with 1-2 simple ones that are easy to remember and add more as he progresses. A tennis player actually 'runs plays' just like a quarterback or a point guard. In the case of tennis, the 'plays' are a sequence of 3-4 shots that result in a higher chance of winning a point. You son will develop a play book, just like in any other sport. His play book will grow as he grows. Many kids have all the shots but have not learned how and when to use them. Thus they look great in practice but can not win matches. Sadly, many tennis pros teach kids the shots but not how and when to use them. Last edited by TennisCoachFLA : 11-13-2009 at 07:25 PM.

11-14-2009, 04:37 AM	#8
mozzer Professional Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: England Posts: 1,063	Im 16 and have never had a private lesson. I personally dont think they can help, you either have the natural ability for racket sports or you dont. Remember, just my opinion. Tournament play is the only way to improve, they wont hit easy feeds to your forehands or backhands like in a lesson... __________________ References - nickb, 1012007 x2

11-14-2009, 02:16 PM	#12
andfor Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,160	Learning patterns are advanced but should be taught even to 11 yr. olds. Don't expect the youngsters to execute them right away. It takes time to see them actually put to use in tournament matches. As mentioned practicing them in supervised match play and situational drilling will help. My experience watching the 12's and even in many older matches 14's and 16's the basics of consistency, depth, willingness to to run down shot after shot and positive emotional control will yield winning results. Sure shot selection, power, strategy, tactics and pure abilty come into play but the basics will win matches at many levels. Desire may also be a factor and should be measured by talking with your child about why he wants to play, etc. Be sure to take it easy as kids develop at different rates. Encourage, fun, sportsmanship, effort and improvement. Not saying you are but often focusing on results may lead to poor match play and or possible burn out. __________________ "i thought those were just a little harmless brown bugs, you know the ones take wings and fly? but it turned to be Flees." Fedace Last edited by andfor : 11-14-2009 at 02:22 PM.

11-14-2009, 06:36 PM	#14
fruitytennis1 Rookie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: I wish i knew Posts: 349	I wish i had that kind of willing financial means behind me. 1 lesson every other week and hours with buddies outside in about 40 degrees until it snows(then i shovel for court time) Sure spend 40 bucks on the science fair admission but nope no 9$ an hour court time financing! Ahh lifes not fair but ill be all the better for it. __________________ Babolat pure drive cortex with babolat 17g pro hurricane strings If you think your smart turns out your debating with a 13yr old kid. Last edited by fruitytennis1 : 11-14-2009 at 06:39 PM.