What is life like at your USTA level?

[Cindysphinx]

I'm not sure where I'm going with this exactly, but since I don't have a sports psychologist I'll raise the issue here.

I'm a 3.0. This will be my second season at 3.0. Based on last season's results, the computer believes I stink. I lost all of my matches in Spring 2006. I've taken a boat-load of lessons, changed to a control racquet, played a lot and practice a lot, so I'm better now.

I think it would take a miracle for me to win so convincingly at 3.0 this year that I make it to 3.5. My mixed results and combo results are better than my on-level results, but those won't help me. So I have at least one, probably two, seasons ahead of me at 3.0.

The trouble is I'm starting not to like 3.0 play. It's not that my partners make errors, or we don't win. I make errors, and we win often enough. And my teammates are great ladies and friends.

It is the style of play at 3.0 that is making me want to pull my hair out. The endless one-up, one-back. The pushing. The flat-out refusal to come to net. The camping in no-man's land. The poo-poohing of doubles strategy.

I did a drill class a few weeks back, and I was put on a court where I was the weakest or maybe second-weakest player. My 3.5 partner that day was a tennis goddess. We talked about what we would do on each point. She loved to come in. She encouraged me to come in, even if I missed. She totally understood strategy. I had so much fun!

What to do? I'm going to try to get on a 3.5 team, but I'll have to try out, and it's very hard to get on a 3.5 team as a 3.0 unless you're pals with someone. I was thinking of playing singles on the the theory that might be a faster route to 3.5, but it won't be if I lose.

So. For the folks at the lower levels (or folks who were once at lower levels), did you ever feel like this? How long did it take you to move up a level, and what helped? Is 3.5 "the promised land?" Or is this likely a case of "be careful what you wish for" because I'd be unhappy at 3.5 too?

[cak]

Are you sure the computer believes you stink? All those loses in 2006, where are the opponents now? Did they all get moved to 3.5? If so, the computer doesn't think you stink. You may have a lot higher rating than you think.

It sounds from your description that 3.0 doubles is driving you crazy, so 3.0 singles might be a good solution. It may get you to 3.5 faster, especially if you win. Doubles may get you to 3.5 faster, especially if you play with someone the computer thinks is worse than you and you win.

Mathematically, if you play against good players, and win, the amount the computer bumps you depends on how much you win by and how much difference there is between your ratings. If you and your partner's combined rating is lower, the computer gives you more ratings boost for the win. If your combined rating is higher than your opponents you may get no credit for winning. And yes, if the folks you are playing against have a much higher combined rating, and you lose, but closely, you still get the ratings boost. This is why playing up, with a good partner, may not get you bumped. If her rating is on the high side of 3.5, and you are winning in close matches against folks that are mid to low 3.5s, you won't get any ratings boost.

That said, worrying about your rating, especially when you are the captain and have control over who you play with and when you play, is probably counter productive. My caution story: I am a doubles player. I showed up at a match I wasn't scheduled to play to cheer for our team. I was wearing flip flops and shorts, and had just come off vacation. My captain was standing there in full uniform, she was the backup player for the day. The 1st singles player called and said she couldn't make it. She asked if my racket and shoes were in the car (which of course, they are always in the car...) and put me out in singles because "it was against a good singles player, and she didn't want to mess up her own rating." Yes, it was a good singles player, having a less than stellar day, and I won. I got bumped to 3.5, and my captain didn't. Since our section does rerating twice a year, and I only play one league were the matches count, I can tell it was the last two games of the season that put me over, and that singles match was the last game.

I spent one year in 2.5, two years in 3.0 (One on appeal, I didn't think I was ready for 3.5), and the last year in 3.5. I never played up to get bumped. And I can say the players playing in 3.5 are much better than those in 3.0. But the pusher game is alive and well. I can also say the higher you get the more players playing up there are. In 3.0 I rarely ran across a 2.5 playing up. In 3.5 I often run across a 3.0 playing up. Our team needs 3.0s, as we don't have enough 3.5s, and many end up playing against other 3.0s in the 3rd position or 2nd singles, so they aren't beating 3.5s, they are beating, or losing to 3.0s.

[Voltron]

I play singles USTA tournaments in a VERY competitive B16s area. (4.0 to 5.5) Pushers are still out there, but they are easy to beat once you get in their heads. I would listen to Cak's advice, I don't quite understand the bumping system, but I would do as he says, it sounds right.

[tennis-n-sc]

There are some sports adages that hold true even in club level tennis. 1) Ya gotta pay your dues. In other words, all these matches at any level are preparing you for future matches. Learn from them. 2) Get match tough. You do it by playing matches at any level, including tournaments. 3) Luck is preparation meeting opportunity. Take all the lessons and clinics you can afford. Work the ball machines. It will all come together and you will be tough to handle. 4) Have some fun. You appear to be taking this all to serious. Lighten up and recognize that it is a GAME. You'll never shake the world in USTA play. About the best you can hope for is to be a big fish in a little pond. Big deal. But I can the drift from some of your other posts you are trying to do too much. Lighten up and laugh, at your self if possible. You'll move up but you'll have the same issues at every level if you aren't having fun. Enjoy the journey, young lady.

[North]

Is it the USTA ratings stupidity that you are most concerned with or the fact that at 3.0, you play a lot of pushers and find them harder to beat than you would have thought?

[goober]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

So. For the folks at the lower levels (or folks who were once at lower levels), did you ever feel like this? How long did it take you to move up a level, and what helped? Is 3.5 "the promised land?" Or is this likely a case of "be careful what you wish for" because I'd be unhappy at 3.5 too?

I self rated at 4.0 my first USTA season. I found the level of competition about right.

Happiness is a state of mind. The fact that you are unhappy has nothing to with whether you are playing 3.0 or 3.5. The style of play and same shenanigans I assure you will still be there at 3.5.

You really need to sit down and write out 5 reasons why you are lucky/happy to be playing tennis. That is all the matters or you shouldn't playing this game.

[Topaz]

I'm a 3.0. I have, at times, played up at 3.5. In the NOVA leagues, it seems that there is a huge range of 'skill' at the 3.0 level. What I have found is the big difference between 3.0 and 3.5 is consistency. The 3.5s just aren't going to make those errors.

I have been playing 6.0 mixed for the first time, and I am very disappointed in the 3.0 guys. They all seem to just want to hit the crap out of the ball every time, and end up piling up errors like they are going out of business.

Today I played in a small tournament at my club with my 4.0 guy neighbor, and we won...easily. I'm thinking 7.0 mixed, if I ever do mixed again, will be a much better fit.

And yes, I'm a 3.0, but I take a doubles clinic once a week, and take private lessons. I play as much as my schedule and budget will allow. In doubles you will find me all over the net (and even sometimes in singles...though I haven't had the success at singles that I have had in doubles) and I know my strategies and I'm not afraid to poach. For the criticism that the 'lower' levels take on these boards...you won't necessarily find that in a 3.0 match around here. They can be *very* competitive.

I hope to play well enough during the spring indoor and summer outdoor USTA seasons to get bumped up to 3.5 for next year. If I do, I will not be one of the people appealing down to 3.0. That's not how I roll.

[Cruzer]

If you want to get moved up to 3.5 you can either play 3.0 singles and win a lot or win all your doubles matches without losing a set along the way. It almost sounds like you are more competitive than the other doubles players on your team and if that is the case they are not going to help you get a higer rating. If your objective is get to 3.5 then you pretty much have to approach every USTA match with the objective to win 6-0, 6-0. Show no mercy on the court. Never let up not matter what the score is.

[North]

Originally Posted by goober

You really need to sit down and write out 5 reasons why you are lucky/happy to be playing tennis. That is all the matters or you shouldn't playing this game.

I'm glad to see this. I try to play with a sense of gratitude - that I am healthy, am able to play, and have all my arms/legs/eyes/etc. I try to just have fun and enjoy being out there doing my best. I quit league tennis because it just wasn't fun and now have a lot of playing partners with whom I play very competitively - but with a better perspective on why we all play.

[JLyon]

4.5 here Arkansas after 8 seasons in Texas. There seems to be a stigma here once you hit 4.0 you do not want to get bumped to 4.5, so most 4.5's will sit 3 years or play down to get back to 4.0. Very disappointing. In Texas it was the same except nobody wanted to get above 4.5, which explains the large number of sandbaggers.

[magmasilk]

i was in a similar boat - outgrew a flight faster than my rating.

i think you should keep looking for a 3.5 team. what were you going to do once you got moved up to 3.5, what team would you play on? If you aren't quite 3.5 skills yet you could always play on a 3.0 team and sub part-time on a 3.5 team ... that will also give you potential to move up faster than just playing 3.0 and dominating.

d

[JHBKLYN]

As they say, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Where I'm from, the 3.0 ladies and 3.5 ladies' talent aren't that far off and you have the same so called pushers, people playing 2 back and never come to the net, etc. etc. The 3.5's are a bit more consistent and obviously no beginners on that level. But the style of play isn't like Sharapova vs Serena, it's similar to 3.0 with more consistency. 4.0 is where the ladies are pretty good!

A fast way to move from 3.0 to 3.5 is for you to play 3rd doubles (providing your format is 2 singles and 3 doubles) with a strong doubles player and beat everyone badly. But remember, once you move to 3.5 you need to prove that you belong or you may be bumped down again. 3.5 is not the promise land because if you are unable to win at 3.0, you're probably not going to win in 3.5.

As others said , just play your best and let the NTRP computer decide (though I think it's a bit quirky) where you should play. You may also want to be pals with a 3.5 captain so you can get on without trying out. Oh yeah, and have fun.

[JHBKLYN]

Originally Posted by cak

My caution story: I am a doubles player. I showed up at a match I wasn't scheduled to play to cheer for our team. I was wearing flip flops and shorts, and had just come off vacation.

I spent one year in 2.5, two years in 3.0 (One on appeal, I didn't think I was ready for 3.5), and the last year in 3.5.

That reminds of an incident with this guy who was in his early or late 50s who got bumped up from 3.0 to 3.5. The computer must've thought he was a good player because he won most of his matches by playing 3rd doubles against weak competition. The captain had to appeal and get him bumped down, and the reason was he ain't that good and he can barely see and he would get killed at the 3.5 level.

BTW, are you undefeated when wearing flip flops and shorts to matches?

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I'm not sure where I'm going with this exactly, but since I don't have a sports psychologist I'll raise the issue here.

I'm a 3.0. This will be my second season at 3.0. Based on last season's results, the computer believes I stink. I lost all of my matches in Spring 2006. I've taken a boat-load of lessons, changed to a control racquet, played a lot and practice a lot, so I'm better now.

I think it would take a miracle for me to win so convincingly at 3.0 this year that I make it to 3.5. My mixed results and combo results are better than my on-level results, but those won't help me. So I have at least one, probably two, seasons ahead of me at 3.0.

The trouble is I'm starting not to like 3.0 play. It's not that my partners make errors, or we don't win. I make errors, and we win often enough. And my teammates are great ladies and friends.

It is the style of play at 3.0 that is making me want to pull my hair out. The endless one-up, one-back. The pushing. The flat-out refusal to come to net. The camping in no-man's land. The poo-poohing of doubles strategy.

I did a drill class a few weeks back, and I was put on a court where I was the weakest or maybe second-weakest player. My 3.5 partner that day was a tennis goddess. We talked about what we would do on each point. She loved to come in. She encouraged me to come in, even if I missed. She totally understood strategy. I had so much fun!

What to do? I'm going to try to get on a 3.5 team, but I'll have to try out, and it's very hard to get on a 3.5 team as a 3.0 unless you're pals with someone. I was thinking of playing singles on the the theory that might be a faster route to 3.5, but it won't be if I lose.

So. For the folks at the lower levels (or folks who were once at lower levels), did you ever feel like this? How long did it take you to move up a level, and what helped? Is 3.5 "the promised land?" Or is this likely a case of "be careful what you wish for" because I'd be unhappy at 3.5 too?

that sucks you lost every match. you must suck though,haha :P

tennis goddess....doesnt sound right. if you hate the style of play at 3.0, just change it. go up to the net and put it away. turn it into singles baby. thats what i would do.

and yes, you should just do singles if you want to bump up. you said you switched rackets, rpacticed, etc etc so it should be much easier now. good luck

[tennis-n-sc]

Originally Posted by North

I'm glad to see this. I try to play with a sense of gratitude - that I am healthy, am able to play, and have all my arms/legs/eyes/etc. I try to just have fun and enjoy being out there doing my best. I quit league tennis because it just wasn't fun and now have a lot of playing partners with whom I play very competitively - but with a better perspective on why we all play.

North, great points by you and Goober, not only for tennis but for life. I love tennis for a wide variety of reasons. But I am 61 years old and can see the sunset. It makes me ever mindful that every match is a gift, no matter how well I or my opponnent play. I am still competing well with guys half my age but have begrudgingly accepted that my matches aren't as technical as they once were. I'm just happy to be out there. Thanks to you and Goob for reminding me.

[rasajadad]

Two things-
You could be losing doubles matches by employing improper court position. Just becasue someone is a 3.0 doesn't mean they can't read a book!

Second, go enter a 3.5 tournament. See how you measure up. (Remember, fitness level counts highly.)

[raiden031]

Cindy,

Sounds like you and I have alot in common. I don't like 3.0 play because the speed of the game is too slow. At that level, you're more likely to get stuck with a partner that frustrates you because of major weaknesses. I find it difficult going from my baseline bashing game to the doubles dinker game and I am overhitting alot because I am not used to the slow pace. I am realizing more and more how bad my netplay is, and thats kinda holding me back. It sounds as if you are more serious about developing in tennis with proper technique, unlike alot of your peers. Since you can't always guarantee you'll have a strong partner to help you win, your best bet is to play singles as much as possible in USTA play. But still play doubles to better your game, but less so in USTA if you want to move your rating up.

Or the problem could simply be that it takes longer to develop consistency with proper technique than it does with comfortable technique. I know that consistency is my main problem, because I get alot of compliments about my groundstrokes and serve, yet I still lose the matches.

[cak]

Originally Posted by JHBKLYN

A fast way to move from 3.0 to 3.5 is for you to play 3rd doubles (providing your format is 2 singles and 3 doubles) with a strong doubles player and beat everyone badly.

You would think this would work, but it doesn't. If you are really playing against the worst players on the other team (though there is no guarantee they didn't flip their lineup too) it is possible that you are playing against a team with average rating of 2.5 and you and your strong partner have an average rating of 2.9 or better. In that case, if you beat them by anything less than 6-0,6-0 your rating will actually go down.

For that matter I've seen doubles partners that went 11-0 playing 1st doubles not get bumped. So you really can't count on stellar play to get moved up either. It helps if the 3.0 ladies from your section win Nationals, so whatever you can do in your power there....

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by cak

You would think this would work, but it doesn't. If you are really playing against the worst players on the other team (though there is no guarantee they didn't flip their lineup too) it is possible that you are playing against a team with average rating of 2.5 and you and your strong partner have an average rating of 2.9 or better. In that case, if you beat them by anything less than 6-0,6-0 your rating will actually go down.

For that matter I've seen doubles partners that went 11-0 playing 1st doubles not get bumped. So you really can't count on stellar play to get moved up either. It helps if the 3.0 ladies from your section win Nationals, so whatever you can do in your power there....

I play with a woman who went 8-0 in league play at 3.5 singles last year and did not get bumped up. She played against a few 4.0 players in tournaments and didn't do well against them, but definitely dominates the 3.5 arena.

[Cindysphinx]

Lots of great observations here.

Zapvor:

that sucks you lost every match. you must suck though,haha :P

No, I didn't suck. I **SUCKED!!!**

Yeah, it was that bad. Coming off of a successful season at 2.5, I expected 3.0 to be a breeze. I was surprised that pushing the ball back up the middle short wasn't enough to win at singles at 3.0. Go figure.

Tennis-n-sc, I think you're onto something. I know my remarks on the board sound competitive and intense. Guilty as charged, but I plead mitigating circumstances. I'm 45. I don't know how many years I have to play tennis. I feel like I need to improve every time I step onto the court or I will be dinking the ball etc. for the rest of my life. So yeah, I'm crazy possessed about improving as fast as I can. I should relax and enjoy the ride a bit. Maybe 45 is not so old after all.

CAK, thanks for the reality check that 3.5 won't be some sort of tennis nirvana where all players play "correctly." It will still be a mixed bag; maybe there's something to be said for being a big fish in a little pond as long as the computer will allow.

North, no, it's not the ratings stuff that gets me, if I understand your question. There are people who view their ratings as a commentary of their worth. I know someone who was 3.0 and appealed up to 3.5 because all of her friends moved up. That is nonsense, IMHO. And it's not that I can't beat the pushers. I have been doing OK lately. It's just that it is frustrating when a partner is insisting you do X when you know full well that X is wrong in doubles. And then the other team scores points because we are doing X. Gah!

You know, there is one of my teammates who might make a good doubles partner for me. She has huge weaknesses in her game, but then again what 3.0 doesn't? Where she's strong is that she believes that positioning and strategy matter, and she is dead serious about improving. We have our first match together in a couple of weeks, and we're going to enter a tournament in May come hell or high water. So I'll let you know.

And I'll keep looking for a 3.5 team!