How does one beat a consistant slice?

[MatchpointServe]

I'm definitely no pro, as the highest rank I've made it to on my highschool team was 6 on Varsity. Now, that may not sound too great, but we have a ton of competition. Then again, I'm not exactly that great of a player. I'm somewhat of a base liner (I think? Correct me if I'm wrong). My typical game consists of me staying back and hitting deep shots, usually alternating from right to left, or hitting drop shots. I approach the net sometimes, but typically refrain because I mess up and usually lose the point.

So last week, I completely had an off week, thus being knocked down to 8 on Varsity. The number 7 guy is beatable, as last time I beat him 6-2 (proset). He mainly just does a bunch of high topspin like lobs, that appear out but end up in. Anyways, I ended up at 8. Now at 9, there's this guy that slices nonstop. The number 7 guy beat him, so I figured I had somewhat of a chance. Obviously syllogism doesn't apply to tennis.

Note, his typical ground strokes aren't too consistent, but his slice is VERY consistent.

So we go out and play, I serve, he slices. I have to run up to the ball, then hit deep shots. I can't recall if I ran back or not, but I usually ended up at the net whether I liked it or not. Then, he'll either lob it hit a nice passing shot. This continued until 0-5. I wasn't entirely sure what exactly I was messing up on, and kept trying to change things around. I've lost games before from minor errors, but this was a bit different. I was simply outplayed.

So after he gains 5 games, I, frustrated, figure that lobs counter slices. A friend on the next court agreed (number 3 varsity, should be 1 or 2 by the end of the week), so I tried lobbing.

Maybe I just suck at lobs, but that didn't seem to work either. I'd lob, he'd lob, this would continue until he ended up with a nice, flat shot that was hard to return, or something that I'd lob out. I don't know, it was just frustrating. Eventually I lost 0-8 (proset, not sure why we did it that way)


So eh, here's my question, how does one take out someone that slices? I couldn't figure it out, and ended up losing without grabbing one game. It was so incredibly frustrating. I can take out the two guys in front of him, and usually pretty easily, yet he doesn't stand a chance against them. Meanwhile I get completely owned by this guy, so I'm stuck at number 9, because he's not moving, nor am I (the number 10 guy is also pretty beatable), thus, chances are I'll end up stuck on JV, which I definitely don't want (I'm a sophomore).

So if anyone could help me out, maybe explain some kind of strategy or tactics I can try out, so I don't get stuck down here. I think the ladder is finalized until the middle of the season in 2 weeks, so I'm pretty unsure of what to do. Next time I'm going to try just getting the ball over the net, preferably with deep lobs, since apparently he breaks down after a few losing games and starts shooting himself in the foot.

Anyways, that's about it.. pretty crappy day as far as tennis goes.. Thanks for all of the advice.

[tennisfanatic]

Originally Posted by MatchpointServe

I'm definitely no pro, as the highest rank I've made it to on my highschool team was 6 on Varsity. Now, that may not sound too great, but we have a ton of competition. Then again, I'm not exactly that great of a player. I'm somewhat of a base liner (I think? Correct me if I'm wrong). My typical game consists of me staying back and hitting deep shots, usually alternating from right to left, or hitting drop shots. I approach the net sometimes, but typically refrain because I mess up and usually lose the point.

So last week, I completely had an off week, thus being knocked down to 8 on Varsity. The number 7 guy is beatable, as last time I beat him 6-2 (proset). He mainly just does a bunch of high topspin like lobs, that appear out but end up in. Anyways, I ended up at 8. Now at 9, there's this guy that slices nonstop. The number 7 guy beat him, so I figured I had somewhat of a chance. Obviously syllogism doesn't apply to tennis.

Note, his typical ground strokes aren't too consistent, but his slice is VERY consistent.

So we go out and play, I serve, he slices. I have to run up to the ball, then hit deep shots. I can't recall if I ran back or not, but I usually ended up at the net whether I liked it or not. Then, he'll either lob it hit a nice passing shot. This continued until 0-5. I wasn't entirely sure what exactly I was messing up on, and kept trying to change things around. I've lost games before from minor errors, but this was a bit different. I was simply outplayed.

So after he gains 5 games, I, frustrated, figure that lobs counter slices. A friend on the next court agreed (number 3 varsity, should be 1 or 2 by the end of the week), so I tried lobbing.

Maybe I just suck at lobs, but that didn't seem to work either. I'd lob, he'd lob, this would continue until he ended up with a nice, flat shot that was hard to return, or something that I'd lob out. I don't know, it was just frustrating. Eventually I lost 0-8 (proset, not sure why we did it that way)


So eh, here's my question, how does one take out someone that slices? I couldn't figure it out, and ended up losing without grabbing one game. It was so incredibly frustrating. I can take out the two guys in front of him, and usually pretty easily, yet he doesn't stand a chance against them. Meanwhile I get completely owned by this guy, so I'm stuck at number 9, because he's not moving, nor am I (the number 10 guy is also pretty beatable), thus, chances are I'll end up stuck on JV, which I definitely don't want (I'm a sophomore).

So if anyone could help me out, maybe explain some kind of strategy or tactics I can try out, so I don't get stuck down here. I think the ladder is finalized until the middle of the season in 2 weeks, so I'm pretty unsure of what to do. Next time I'm going to try just getting the ball over the net, preferably with deep lobs, since apparently he breaks down after a few losing games and starts shooting himself in the foot.

Anyways, that's about it.. pretty crappy day as far as tennis goes.. Thanks for all of the advice.

i can see your predicament. i was there before fortunately though i learned how to deal different style of play now.

Try these following suggestions:
1. Force him to come to the net by giving drop shots. usually players like this is weak on the net.

2. focus on your stregth. let your strength disrupt his rhythm.

3. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE YOUR OPPONENT!!! if you beat the guy that beat him don't jump to conclusion that your better than him.

5. "TOO MANY MINDS is a pathway to defeat"- Focus!

[Mick]

i recommend counter his slices by hitting high top spin balls that land deep beyond the service line. It would be tougher for him to slice the ball when the ball is at his shoulder height than when the ball is at his waist height.

[Bagumbawalla]

I would say one out of 5 questions we get here go something like yours-- something like this: "I play a half-way decent game of tennis, but opponent 'X' hits a stroke that is outside of my comfort zone and I find it frustrating, so I have trouble beating him. What can I do to turn things around?

In almost every case the answer is the same-- as long as your skills remain the same, the results will be pretty mch the same, as well.

To improve your chances, you need to improve your skills. Learn to get down low to the ball and hit through the slice with confidence/direction/purpose. Work on all of your basic shots. I can gaurantee that in competitive tennis, once an opponent senses any weakness or awkwardness in your game, they will exploit it as much as they can.

The other thing is to learm basic strategies/tactics that work against anybody (assuming you execute them properly).

If the slices are deep, return them deep. Move the opponent around until you get a short/weak shot, then go for a placement. Vary your pace/speed/spin so that he does not groove to your shot. Watch his reactions to different shots. If , for example his backhand slice floats high, sneak to the net and volley it away. Try slice, yourself, and see his reaction (people hate slice,even slicers.

If he slices short. Hit an angled placement, if you can. If you can't, hit deep and follow the ball to the net or bring him to the net with a soft drop volley and wait for him to hit the ball up and volley it away.

Don't allow yourself to become frustrated. Keep to the basics-- watch the ball, move smoothly, hit cleanly through the ball. When you are playing him, think of it as a lesson in concentration.

These are just a couple ideas. The important thing is to work on your overall game and bring it up a notch. Don't ecpect some secret shot will magically nullify his slice. Aksi, you should buy a book on tennis tactics

Syllogism-- that's a great word for a high school student. You must also be on the debate team.

Good luck,

B

[bad_call]

Originally Posted by Bagumbawalla

I would say one out of 5 questions we get here go something like yours-- something like this: "I play a half-way decent game of tennis, but opponent 'X' hits a stroke that is outside of my comfort zone and I find it frustrating, so I have trouble beating him. What can I do to turn things around?

In almost every case the answer is the same-- as long as your skills remain the same, the results will be pretty mch the same, as well.

To improve your chances, you need to improve your skills. Learn to get down low to the ball and hit through the slice with confidence/direction/purpose. Work on all of your basic shots. I can gaurantee that in competitive tennis, once an opponent senses any weakness or awkwardness in your game, they will exploit it as much as they can.

The other thing is to learm basic strategies/tactics that work against anybody (assuming you execute them properly).

If the slices are deep, return them deep. Move the opponent around until you get a short/weak shot, then go for a placement. Vary your pace/speed/spin so that he does not groove to your shot. Watch his reactions to different shots. If , for example his backhand slice floats high, sneak to the net and volley it away. Try slice, yourself, and see his reaction (people hate slice,even slicers.

If he slices short. Hit an angled placement, if you can. If you can't, hit deep and follow the ball to the net or bring him to the net with a soft drop volley and wait for him to hit the ball up and volley it away.

Don't allow yourself to become frustrated. Keep to the basics-- watch the ball, move smoothly, hit cleanly through the ball. When you are playing him, think of it as a lesson in concentration.

These are just a couple ideas. The important thing is to work on your overall game and bring it up a notch. Don't ecpect some secret shot will magically nullify his slice. Aksi, you should buy a book on tennis tactics

Syllogism-- that's a great word for a high school student. You must also be on the debate team.

Good luck,

B

good advice here. Bagum - u should charge $ for this piece.

[Bottle Rocket]

Bagumbawalla,

I also want to thank you... Your posts are extremely helpful.

[MatchpointServe]

Hm, thanks for the advice. Despite hoping for some magic, anti-slice shot, what you said does sound quite accurate. I suppose it's the same reason why people higher up can fair easily against this guy, whilst I struggle incredibly.. And yeah, I would be one of the many that hates slices (as I was completely destroyed hours ago).

As far as a book on tennis tactics, are there any in particular that you would recommend?

Anyways, thank you again. I really appreciate it.

[drakulie]

Well, since he was hitting a lot of drop shots and getting you to the net, you should hit drop shots back. This way, he can't lob you.

In addition, "knowing is half the battle">>>> If you already know he is going to employ this tactic, play inside the baseline so you could get to the ball quicker.

Another thing people who slice a lot do not like is to have to hit high topspin balls.

Good luck.

[Mr. Hokey]

winning ugly is an interesting book. very good for the mental aspect of the game. i have a similar sounding player on our team, he hits with no particular spin or pace... just generally to get it back in. all i really have to do is start moving him around, dragging him from side to side until i can either get set up for a winner, or force an error. work on your ability to place the ball. very useful when playing people who use consistency to win. i'm not in the best shape among my team mates, so rather than wearing them down and winning through attrition, i tend to go for those winner but playing steady is still a big factor, especially at the highschool level.

[soyizgood]

Learn how to slice. Give him a dose of his own medicine. It's VERY hard to slice on top of a slice shot. So you could set this up by hitting wide to his forehand and then use a slice to his backhand. You could experiment slicing to his forehand. I'm betting this guy is not that great at hitting against slice shots, so you could use the slice shot to approach the net.

The best way to beat finesse players is to pressure them. Come to the net, make them hit strokes they are not comfortable with. Also on returning his slice shots, don't wait for the ball to come down. Hit it on the rise or just as it drops off from its peak. An Eastern or semi-Western grip stroke is perfect against slice shots from my experience.

Best that slicer and do it with a smile.

[Mr. Hokey]

hmm... i'd figure that it'd be more effective harassing his slice fh rather than his bh. most bh slices are more natural and comfortable to people.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by soyizgood

Learn how to slice. Give him a dose of his own medicine...

I don't know about that strategy. If the guy is really good at slicing the ball and you are not, chances are you will lose the match by playing his style. In a slicing contest, the better slicer will always win.

[soyizgood]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hokey

hmm... i'd figure that it'd be more effective harassing his slice fh rather than his bh. most bh slices are more natural and comfortable to people.

Why would any guy slice on his forehand as their default forehand groundstroke? I have not seen any player do that. To me, that opponent would be more defensive than a pusher. A forehand slice is harder to execute than a backhand, at least when I've tried that. Forehand slice feels very unnatural unless you aggressively step into the shot.

The poor guy needs to be more of an all-court player against this slicer. Tennis is about match-ups. If he's having problems with slice shots, he needs to know how to return them as well as dish them out. Every player needs to learn how to slice anyways. It's not as exciting as a baseline winner, but it can keep you in a point and/or put pressure on the opponent.

Go to http://tennis.about.com and you'll find lots of information on strokes you can use. He may even want to moonball some shots to make that slicer hit non-slice shots.

[spadesss]

Originally Posted by soyizgood

Why would any guy slice on his forehand as their default forehand groundstroke? I have not seen any player do that. To me, that opponent would be more defensive than a pusher. A forehand slice is harder to execute than a backhand, at least when I've tried that. Forehand slice feels very unnatural unless you aggressively step into the shot.

The poor guy needs to be more of an all-court player against this slicer. Tennis is about match-ups. If he's having problems with slice shots, he needs to know how to return them as well as dish them out. Every player needs to learn how to slice anyways. It's not as exciting as a baseline winner, but it can keep you in a point and/or put pressure on the opponent.

Go to http://tennis.about.com and you'll find lots of information on strokes you can use. He may even want to moonball some shots to make that slicer hit non-slice shots.

i slice off both my wings when i know my opponents can handle slices. so until they do, i will keep on slicing. its a gurantee win and so far, i won all my matches against those who can't return slices.
i can and do hit topspin and flat both of sides as well. but the slice is more of a tactical thing, less effort as well.

going back to orginal question.
i would say that you will have to play him or someone who slices a lot until you learn to deal with it. someone else mentioned this is part of the learning process that will push you over as a better player down the road.

my only immediate support is to advice you hit crazy topspins if you can produce it consistently.
i posted a thread on who would win, a slicer vs topspin and majority of the responses are for the topspinners on a higher playing level (i am guessing 4.0 or higher) the reason is that a 4.0 can crush a floater when a slice gone bad.
as for the lower 3.5 and lower (like me), i can get away with a floarter as my opponent won't be able to hit winners of off it.

practice, practice, and more practice.
learn the slice yourself. add it to your game. you may not be able to beat this slicer this seaosn, but hopefully, you will be them all once you learn the slice yourself.

[Mr. Hokey]

Why would any guy slice on his forehand as their default forehand groundstroke? I have not seen any player do that. To me, that opponent would be more defensive than a pusher. A forehand slice is harder to execute than a backhand, at least when I've tried that. Forehand slice feels very unnatural unless you aggressively step into the shot.

yea... i got that. perhaps you misunderstood me. Before you editted your post, you suggested slicing to the backhand as a strategy. i said that it would be more effective to harass his forehand slice which is, as you apparently agree with, the more uncomfortable stroke.

[jamumafa]

Find a hitting partner and have him hit all slices in a practice drill or two. He might not be as good a slicer as this #9 guy, but it'll give you some sort of practice against it.

[kevhen]

Try not to hit too hard especially against slice. Get them all back, going mostly crosscourt, or to his weaker non-slicing side. Pay attention to your court position. Sounds like he was moving you around, bringing you in where he could then pass or lob you. Against slice you do want to stay inside the baseline or on it and adjust from there, but don't get pulled to net if you don't have a good volley or overhead. Work on your consistency. If you want to make varsity you need to be consistent against slice, topspin, slow, fast, every kind of ball on both sides. So don't go for winners but work on getting everything back safely if possible, good luck!

[Swissv2]

So, get me straight - Does he slice on his backhand or forehand?

[fx101]

Originally Posted by MatchpointServe

I'm definitely no pro, as the highest rank I've made it to on my highschool team was 6 on Varsity. Now, that may not sound too great, but we have a ton of competition. Then again, I'm not exactly that great of a player. I'm somewhat of a base liner (I think? Correct me if I'm wrong). My typical game consists of me staying back and hitting deep shots, usually alternating from right to left, or hitting drop shots. I approach the net sometimes, but typically refrain because I mess up and usually lose the point.

So last week, I completely had an off week, thus being knocked down to 8 on Varsity. The number 7 guy is beatable, as last time I beat him 6-2 (proset). He mainly just does a bunch of high topspin like lobs, that appear out but end up in. Anyways, I ended up at 8. Now at 9, there's this guy that slices nonstop. The number 7 guy beat him, so I figured I had somewhat of a chance. Obviously syllogism doesn't apply to tennis.

Note, his typical ground strokes aren't too consistent, but his slice is VERY consistent.

So we go out and play, I serve, he slices. I have to run up to the ball, then hit deep shots. I can't recall if I ran back or not, but I usually ended up at the net whether I liked it or not. Then, he'll either lob it hit a nice passing shot. This continued until 0-5. I wasn't entirely sure what exactly I was messing up on, and kept trying to change things around. I've lost games before from minor errors, but this was a bit different. I was simply outplayed.

So after he gains 5 games, I, frustrated, figure that lobs counter slices. A friend on the next court agreed (number 3 varsity, should be 1 or 2 by the end of the week), so I tried lobbing.

Maybe I just suck at lobs, but that didn't seem to work either. I'd lob, he'd lob, this would continue until he ended up with a nice, flat shot that was hard to return, or something that I'd lob out. I don't know, it was just frustrating. Eventually I lost 0-8 (proset, not sure why we did it that way)


So eh, here's my question, how does one take out someone that slices? I couldn't figure it out, and ended up losing without grabbing one game. It was so incredibly frustrating. I can take out the two guys in front of him, and usually pretty easily, yet he doesn't stand a chance against them. Meanwhile I get completely owned by this guy, so I'm stuck at number 9, because he's not moving, nor am I (the number 10 guy is also pretty beatable), thus, chances are I'll end up stuck on JV, which I definitely don't want (I'm a sophomore).

So if anyone could help me out, maybe explain some kind of strategy or tactics I can try out, so I don't get stuck down here. I think the ladder is finalized until the middle of the season in 2 weeks, so I'm pretty unsure of what to do. Next time I'm going to try just getting the ball over the net, preferably with deep lobs, since apparently he breaks down after a few losing games and starts shooting himself in the foot.

Anyways, that's about it.. pretty crappy day as far as tennis goes.. Thanks for all of the advice.

The point of this kind of slice is to be consistent and deep. So how do you counter this? A) You slice back or B) You drop shot or C) You rush into the net and pressure him. D) You hit it to his forehand or E) Use angles

Option A is the one many pro's use because eventually the other guy will get tired of slicing and hit a flat shot as you described which has a higher chance of missing.

Option B require you to come in halfway to get a good drop-shot. Chances are he is near the baseline so there is no way for him to counter the shot. The catch is that you have to be good at dropshotting.

Option C requires you to use a swinging volley to take care of a floater as you approach and then rely on the fact that sliced balls tend to float low so they are easy to drop volley or angle out of his playable area.

Option D is straight foreward but will only work if he can't slice as well from his forehand (which is usually the case). You can combine this with other options.

Option E basically means you should move in and use topspin to produce angles where he will have a hard time slicing back and you can volley to the other side of the court.

[Puma]

Basically what you are saying is you played a guy who slices and lobs and whilst playing him you made more errors than him and you lost.

So, my advice would be to be more patient and more realistic about what shots YOU have. This is way easier to say than do. The fact is, at most all equal levels of play the one who commits more errors loses.

A player who tries to be aggressive and makes tons of errors in doing so (young guys especially) that plays like players has a good chance of winning by just making a few less errors. Take that same player and match him against a guy who gets it over by slice and lob consistantly and the aggressive player is going to have a very long day.

So what do you do? You play the shots YOU CAN HIT WELL against him. If you are trying to hit heavy spin, flat drives etc against him and are making a ton of errors, then you need to reacess your plan simply because you are not consistant enough to exercise that plan at a high enough level to win.

So does this mean you have to get into a lob/slice war to win? Maybe so. If you can't come to the net effectively then don't. If you can't hit a topspin backhand off the rise cross court, then don't try. Whatever you can do to get it back as deep as possible is what you should do. And you should do this until you gain enough experience and skills to do otherwise. Sorry, its just that simple. Whatever you can do to just get it back deep with consistancy is what you should do. If you can't get it deep, then just get it back. The idea is to outlast him or make him take the chance. Chances are the first one to take the chance will lose.

This premise isn't pretty. I don't like it either. But it is the truth.

In the mean time you should work on your skills.

I know this stuff here is not really what you want to hear. I know that maybe a lot of guys may disagree and thats fine. But, trust me, if from this point on you begin to evaluate your game on the basis of what you really can and can't do consistently, you will become a better player over night. If you do this, you will be a player who plays within himself. And, the player who can do this will gain consistency and will have wins.

And don't be intimidated by the guys who tell you, "all you have to do is come in to the net and cut off the angle", or "just step in and take the floater out of the air", or whatever. It may be simple for them, but it may not be simple and easy for you.

I would also like to add, that the problems you face with this type of player is one of the great challenges of the game. It's not just a challenge for you, its a challenge for all of us no matter what our level.

So, good luck