Pulling My Hair Out: One Up, One Back

[Cindysphinx]

I played doubles today in practice. My partner was your typical 3.0.

Throughout the match, I was getting increasingly irritated that she never, ever, for any reason, no how, no way, will not come from the baseline to the net.

See, I was trying to play the net very aggressively when I started at net. This is partly because I just worked on it during my last lesson and partly because I think i can win a lot of points up there. If my partner hit a deep shot, I tried to carefully watch the returner and figure out where she was going to hit. If I put the ball away, fine.

If I didn't put the ball away, I tried to get the next one. And the next one. And the whole time, I'm thinking: "Where the bleeeeeeep is my partner?" I felt pressure to take every ball I could reach during these rallies because I had no clue where she was and whether she could reach it if I let it go by. So I found myself doing all this *work* feeling like I'm playing singles at net against two opponents.

And afterward, on the way to the car, she says something about how I could let some of those balls go because she's fast enough to get them back.

OK. I have resigned myself to the fact that there simply isn't another person on my team who will come to net. I cannot continue to live my tennis life urging people to come to the net who don't want to do it. It's a waste of perfectly good oxygen. So I have to figure out what to do with my own game in these situations.

When you are one-up, one-back and you're at net, what is the best strategy? Should I let the rally continue cross-court for longer until I get a ball I know I can kill for a winner? Should I relinquish the net and go to the baseline so at least we have built a wall? Should I just keep playing the way I'm playing, assume she has been struck by lightening so I'm on my own, and not worry about whether she ever comes up?

During the second set, I tried something I thought might help. I said, "Hey, let's have as a goal for this set to finish every point, win or lose, with both of us at net." She cheerfully agreed. And then every single time we finished two up, it was because I had come in to net from the baseline.

We won every single one of those points. Doh!!

[cghipp]

I think you have got to find a way to get her up there more often! Maybe you could have someone on the sidelines keep some stats for you, and show them to your partner to demonstrate the importance of being at net. I struggle with this too - both with not getting to net as much as I want to, and with desperately wanting my partner to come to net!

Being both up at net will take you SO far in your league. When I'm up and my partner is back, and our opponents rush the net, I feel the pressure almost like a physical thing. It's not just a strategic advantage, but a huge psychological advantage as well. BUT you must BOTH have a good overhead to be able to do this; otherwise you'll be sitting ducks.

[sapient007]

i was playing 3.0 women's doubles last night and was teamed up with some crazy aggressive woman. boy, she ran after every ball like a rapid retriever and didn't allow me to do any of the work. i applaud her for her energy, however i've just had lessons on baseline ground strokes and really wanted to work on it. she said something ~2nd set about going to the net, i nodded mostly in fear but couldn't quite make out what exactly she wanted. I ran as fast i could after the match.

[spot]

You should stay up at the net until the other team goes to 2 up- maybe then it makes sense to go to 2 back. Otherwise you should position aggressively and make yourself a ****** up there. Normally at 3.0 women the net players are almost scenery up there. Wait for a ball that you can make an aggressive play on (not just get back over) and then jump in. Don't be afraid to GO a couple of times if people are getting in a rhythm- that will set up a fake poach.

[Cindysphinx]

But . . . but why are you playing doubles if you want to work on your groundstrokes?

Winning doubles is about getting to the net and hitting volleys. Methinks your partner is pulling her hair out that you won't come in.

I so feel her pain . . .

I think maybe I will hit two volleys. If my partner still hasn't joined me by the third one, I will catch the ball, concede the point and then tell her that ball was hers to volley.

[rasajadad]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I played doubles today in practice. My partner was your typical 3.0.

Throughout the match, I was getting increasingly irritated that she never, ever, for any reason, no how, no way, will not come from the baseline to the net.

See, I was trying to play the net very aggressively when I started at net. This is partly because I just worked on it during my last lesson and partly because I think i can win a lot of points up there. If my partner hit a deep shot, I tried to carefully watch the returner and figure out where she was going to hit. If I put the ball away, fine.

If I didn't put the ball away, I tried to get the next one. And the next one. And the whole time, I'm thinking: "Where the bleeeeeeep is my partner?" I felt pressure to take every ball I could reach during these rallies because I had no clue where she was and whether she could reach it if I let it go by. So I found myself doing all this *work* feeling like I'm playing singles at net against two opponents.

And afterward, on the way to the car, she says something about how I could let some of those balls go because she's fast enough to get them back.

OK. I have resigned myself to the fact that there simply isn't another person on my team who will come to net. I cannot continue to live my tennis life urging people to come to the net who don't want to do it. It's a waste of perfectly good oxygen. So I have to figure out what to do with my own game in these situations.

When you are one-up, one-back and you're at net, what is the best strategy? Should I let the rally continue cross-court for longer until I get a ball I know I can kill for a winner? Should I relinquish the net and go to the baseline so at least we have built a wall? Should I just keep playing the way I'm playing, assume she has been struck by lightening so I'm on my own, and not worry about whether she ever comes up?

During the second set, I tried something I thought might help. I said, "Hey, let's have as a goal for this set to finish every point, win or lose, with both of us at net." She cheerfully agreed. And then every single time we finished two up, it was because I had come in to net from the baseline.

We won every single one of those points. Doh!!

Cindy,
The best thing to do in the one up, one back strategy is to think of where you can find a proper doubles partner! If your partner is not playing proper doubles position...ditch them!

[Cindysphinx]

You know, it's not that easy. For one thing, there are only 16 other people on this team. I have played with all but one of them at some point, in practice or matches. None will come to net. I'm totally stuck.

I am partnering with the 17th person on Tuesday. Maybe she will come to net . . .

[MordredSJT]

Cindy,

When you are at the net in one up, one back you should actively look to volley the first ball that you can get. If your opponents are also one up and one back, avoid hitting it back to the player at the baseline. Hit it at the other net player's feet (or into the huge gaping hole between your opponents if you can manage), be ready for the next ball to come back, and try to end the point decisively in 2-3 shots at most. You shouldn't have to be hitting a lot of volleys during a point if you do this right...although sometimes stuff happens.

If your opponents are taking the net, I would still not relinquish my position. Hopefully your partner can come up with a good enough groundstroke to force a weak volley reply that you can pounce on, or she can lob effectively enough to force your opponents off of the net. If she can do neither of these things consistently then ask her how the hell she is planning on winning that match from the baseline. This is the point where you may consider moving back if she refuses to move up. This is more for your own safety than anything else because if she hits an easy ball up to your two opponents at the net she might get you killed...

[kevhen]

Most 3.0s are very bad at net so they stay back (they are playing the percentages). Find a 3.5 partner who likes to play net too and start playing more 3.5 doubles. 3.5 players are usually somewhat better at net and understand doubles a little better. Alot of women just don't like going to net though! Play mixed!!!

Learn how to finish these balls that you get to. Keep going for them and being aggressive and encourage your partners to move up and complete the wall. Don't get too frustrated with them and feel like you are doing all the work. Relax and just go for vollies that you can finish if you are poaching and not finishing and your partner is not moving up.

[cak]

I'm willing to be the odd man out on this. One, doubles is a team game. I think I'm about the same level as you. I should be able to construct my game around my partner so we can make the strongest team. (And, I've found, my partners also construct their games around my strengths.) If someone shows up whining about their partner, well, it just tells me they aren't all that good at teamwork, and maybe they should be playing singles. If they are whining about 16 out of 16 partners, well, they definitely should be playing singles. If, when their partner suggests a way they might play well together, and they roll their eyes, well, I'm thinking they really, really, really should be playing singles.(That comment on the way to the car, that she's fast enough to pick up the stuff you can't quite reach, that was what she was trying to do...)

My second point, if 16 out of 16 players aren't coming to net with me, I'd begin to look at my net play. Am I making it hard for them to come in? Am I setting up the other team with weak volley's they can lob or hit at my partner's feet? When they do lob am I running back for them, or do I leave them to my partner? Am I unpredictable about picking sides, so sometimes I switch after a poach, and sometimes I stay? Am I whiffing enough at net that they feel they need to back me up? I've had the experience of net players that I can't run in with, because of any or all of the above things. I have found that when they put it away it works well enough, that if I stay back to cover the rest we do well. I'm constructing my game around theirs. I've also had days I was doing all of the above, and yeah my partner stayed back while I played net hog, and we did well. I've also had many matches where my partner and I were in sync, and both ended up in almost every point. Yeah, that's nirvana. But unless we both are predictable at net it's not going to happen.

[Cindysphinx]

Well, yeah.

Which is why I wrote this in my opening post: "So I have to figure out what to do with my own game in these situations."

I must say that I don't think "backing me up" is a decent reason to stay back, though. I mean, if I'm Mr. McGoo who is constantly whiffing balls, yeah.

That's not happening at all. What's happening is that my non-winner volley is what it is, and the other team will do with it what they do, but my partner's failure to come up causes me to play a lot of difficult, defensive volleys simply because I've no idea where on the court she is. It also lets the other team off the hook from the pressure I am trying to create at net, as they can get out of trouble by pushing the ball away from me and toward my baseline partner.

Also maddening is when I put a volley at their feet like I should, they pop it up like you'd expect, and my partner is so far back that she can't overhead or hit down on them.

So yeah, I gotta learn to play better in the sub-optimal formation my pro is constantly urging me to avoid.

[lethalfang]

That happens to me quite often when I play mixed doubles. The woman/girl just wouldn't come to the net, and yet she has the balls to complain that I'm hogging the ball intended for her?
If you don't come in and volley, I will volley them for you!

[LuckyR]

You have a couple of options:

1- Try to talk your team into playing better tennis. Good Luck! Probably not going to happen by your description of your team...

2- Play doubles suboptimally to suit their suboptimal game. Not fun...

3- Continue doing what you are doing, already unsatisfying...

4- Wish you never tried to improve your game and still looked at doubles the wy they do. That horse is already out of the barn...

5- Join a 3.5 team. Bingo! Given your posts and obvious knowledge and drive to get better I can't believe you couldn't play on a 3.5 team.

[cak]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

That's not happening at all. What's happening is that my non-winner volley is what it is, and the other team will do with it what they do, but my partner's failure to come up causes me to play a lot of difficult, defensive volleys simply because I've no idea where on the court she is. It also lets the other team off the hook from the pressure I am trying to create at net, as they can get out of trouble by pushing the ball away from me and toward my baseline partner.

Also maddening is when I put a volley at their feet like I should, they pop it up like you'd expect, and my partner is so far back that she can't overhead or hit down on them.

If you were talking about one partner I'd say working together on positioning, so you know where she is, would work. When you are talking about 16 partners, unless they've all been playing only a year, I'm thinking you need to take some doubles lessons from your pro. In general, if you poached your partner behind you has switched sides, and if your poach was a good poach she's coming in, if it was a mediocre poach she's waiting to see if they pop it over your head. If she is back she has all the time in the world to get to and make a shot, that most likely will be much less defensive than a weak volley. Even the super senior ladies can get to lobs over my head if they are playing back. Most senior ladies can get to a bad drop shot. If it's a good drop shot, you can go for it, but really, good drop shots are few and far between. In general, if you have a weak poach, no matter where she goes the opponents have the upper hand.

Sometimes, when my partner is having trouble putting the ball away at the net (note, not that she's not getting her volleys, she's not putting them away) I will play back until they get my partner gets her confidence back. I am purposely enticing them to hit it to me. If I can get the right groundstroke that makes them run in they will pop it up to my partner who will have an easy put away. It's called setting your partner up. Our pro teaches us to thank our partner when they set us up. When the other team thinks my partner can put anything away, it's worth it for me to come in.

Another idea is to let your partner take the short shots on her side. Don't cross over on cross court shots you don't have a good chance of putting away. Let the opponents bring her in. But then be ready to run down the lobs. If she comes in and then they lob you and you just watch you've reinforced why she was staying back in the first place.

If I am putting volley's at my opponents feet, I want it at the opponent right across from me, so they pop it up back to me. If you hit cross court they have a better chance of either going behind you or going to your partner. If you want the put aways at net, you want to the opponent straight across from you.

If my partner is staying back I sometimes back up to the service line. If you are a strong volleyer you should be able to volley from the service line. It means they can't easily lob me, so she doesn't have to cover that, and is more willing to come in.

Just some ideas to get all your team mates to come in. I think the biggest problem is you just don't have the net game yet to not get lobbed and passed. And your teammates like to try and win. The type of partner you really need is one that really isn't interested in winning, just going for good points. Look for ladies that don't keep score. Seriously. There are a ton of them out there. Heck, as a USTA captain one of the challenges in our lineup was not to put two of them together. The ones that never know the score don't feel the pressure to play it safe.

[Cindysphinx]

I'm on a 3.5 team. Haven't played any matches, and it doesn't look good for reasons I described over in the Leagues forum.

There must be a way to make one-up, one-back work better. Maybe next time I'll ease off and only go for a ball if I am sure I can angle it for a winner . . .

[103xStateChamp]

When I played doubles in USTA I went undefeated with the up and back formation but we were like 8. Our strategy was to hit the ball in the alleys lol

[Solat]

Cindy,

go and poach every ball you can reach, if your partner complains tell her she can hit as many balls as she wants but she has to get to it before you do

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by cak

When you are talking about 16 partners, unless they've all been playing only a year, I'm thinking you need to take some doubles lessons from your pro.

My pro has an interesting take on the whole thing.

He says I need to just keep doing what I'm doing and take the view that we will sometimes lose matches we could win because of the poor positioning. That's just the way it goes. His advice for me in doubles is that I should be at the net unless someone has kidnapped me and chained me to the back fence. So he doesn't want me to lay off at all, and if I can reach it at net, it's my ball.

So maybe I just need to *expect* my partner to miss all kinds of opportunities for failure to move up. If I move up when I start at the baseline, we'll still finish 50% of the points two-up, after all.

I've certainly noticed something in my matches, however. Early in the first set, I get all kinds of net opportunities. Then the other team has a conference, and suddenly they start putting their cross-court returns too high for me to reach. This *should* allow my partner to advance and have some great high volleys or overheads. Nope. All that happens is it gets tougher for me to get a poach I can reach, so I am neutralized. I still haven't figured out a good strategy to counter this. And we've lost matches where we won the first set but lost the tie-break because we've no answer for this and my partner gets pinned in that back corner . . .

[spot]

Cindy- you need to stop thinking about 2 up as the only way to win at doubles. There are tons of rec pairs who win nationals at much higher levels than you playing 1 up and 1 back. Just understand where the weaknesses are and do your best to reduce them. At some point you need to start adjusting to your partners instead of trying to make them adjust to you.

On high crosscourt shots- you want to move back to the service line so you can come across and take an overhead. IF they are just lobbing (and thats what it is) then you don't need to protect your line nearly as much so you should step back to where you are more effective.

[MordredSJT]

Cindy,

In my opinion you should look at these matches as great learning experiences so that you can better deal with things when you do get bumped to 3.5 and eventually 4.0. You are only going to get better at the net by spending so much time up there. You are going to get better at dealing with awkward shots and out of position partners. You are going to get better at poaching. You are going to get better at hitting overheads.

Now, after your opponents make an adjustment...what adjustments do you make? Any? If you just keep doing exactly what you were doing and letting them have their way then you will probably lose. Have you ever thought of changing formation? Go Australian on them. Use the I-formation. Use planned poaches (possibly starting a little farther back if they are hitting consistently high and crosscourt). Make them think every time they hit a return so they can't just hit it high and crosscourt and be safe. If your partner isn't going to make them pay, then you can try...or at least make them think. Either way, it is better to be proactive than reactive.