What's the call?

[heycal]

I was playing a close friend in a tight match the other day. During the tie break, my friend hits a ball that I'm pretty sure is going to go long, and sure enough, it lands just an inch past the baseline right near my feet and I call it out. Or was it out?? On reflection it seemed awfully close -- most probably out, and if I had to bet money, that's what I would go with, but I'm no longer 100 percent sure.

What is the proper thing to do here? I am aware of the "if you aren't sure, then you have to call it in" part of the code, and I always try and play that way, but this was a tricky situation. I didn't attempt a swing because I was sure it was going out, and I still THINK it was out, but I can't say with complete and utter confidence upon mental review that it was definitely out.

I suggested we play a let, which we did, and I won the point and the tie breaker, but later I wondered if I should have immediately overruled myself and called the ball in and given up the point the second that shred of doubt entered my mind.

Thoughts/comments?

[heycal]

Here's another issue that came up in a different match against the same friend. I hit a forehand that sails long by about six inches, only my friend calls it good. I say "No, my ball was definitely out, your point." My friend insists my ball was good, and that's its not my call to make because it's not on my side of the net, and thus it's my point. I offer to play a let as a compromise, but my friend says no, the ball was in and it's my point, end of discusssion.

What's the proper course of action here? It's my understanding the code says I have a right call my own shots out if I clearly see they are out, as I did in this case -- but what if my opponent disagrees and insists the ball was in?

[fuzz nation]

When I play singles, I sometimes tell my opponent that I'll call a serve out if I see it that way, but I'll play a serve if it lands near the service line and I can't tell if it's deep. It gives him the benefit of the doubt and saves him that odd sort of "stop-start" feeling of wondering whether or not the ball is in play when he thought his serve was just over the line. I'm always happier playing a ball when I'm not sure it's out - either I'm sure or I keep playing.

A ball can fool you into thinking it's going out, make you stop going for it, and then land in. Again, either you're sure it's out or you keep playing, so if the ball fools you and lands in, just concede the point.

If you both insist on doing the right thing (you thought your shot was out, but he insists it was in), the good news is that you're both playing with the right mindset and not looking for unearned points. The final word on the call goes to your opponent as I see it. You call his shots and he calls yours. Mutual respect like this on the court is really a good thing, but don't let it hold up your match.

[FiveO]

Question #1: If you are not sure, the ball is good.

Question #2: You tried to do the right thing BUT, unless the opponent "asks you for help" with a call on his side of the court, it is HIS call, correct or not.

[goober]

I would have given your friend the point. If you are 99% not 100% sure the ball was out than you have to proceed that as if it was in. That is how it should have been handled in tournament or competitive situation.

If it was just a friendly match that means nothing, it really doesn't matter unless you guys are sticklers for following rules.

[randomname]

I say always go with your gut reaction

[heycal]

Originally Posted by FiveO

Question #1: If you are not sure, the ball is good.

Originally Posted by goober

I would have given your friend the point. If you are 99% not 100% sure the ball was out than you have to proceed that as if it was in. That is how it should have been handled in tournament or competitive situation.

Perhaps so, guys. But remember, this was not just a simple in or out call. It was a ball I thought was out, still think was out, and didn't play because I thought it was out. We're more in the realm of a reversal here than just a standard in or out call... I guess I resisted just offering up the point because it was a tight match, I thought the ball was out, didn't try to play it, and still think it was out 48 hours later. I'm just less certain than I was when I first made the call, ya know? (We're not sticklers for the rules per se, but I am, in my own head, a stickler for the rules and doing the right thing, or at least strive to be.)

Speaking of which, is there ever I time when a let should be played because of uncertainty over a call?

Also, a separate question: I think somewhere in the code it said you could ask for your opponents help in making an in or out call. But going by the "if you didn't see it clearly out, it's in" rule, under what circumstances would you possibly ask for an opponents help? The very act of having to ask means you didn't see it clearly out, so it should be considered in and you shouldn't be asking, correct? (I don't care if you fall down and your hat covers your eyes -- if you have to ask, it's in, no?)

[J to tha C]

I say buy your mate some glasses.

[FiveO]

Originally Posted by heycal

Perhaps so, guys. But remember, this was not just a simple in or out call. It was a ball I thought was out, still think was out, and didn't play because I thought it was out. We're more in the realm of a reversal here than just a standard in or out call... I guess I resisted just offering up the point because it was a tight match, I thought the ball was out, didn't try to play it, and still think it was out 48 hours later. I'm just less certain than I was when I first made the call, ya know? (We're not sticklers for the rules per se, but I am, in my own head, a stickler for the rules and doing the right thing, or at least strive to be.)

Speaking of which, is there ever I time when a let should be played because of uncertainty over a call?

Also, a separate question: I think somewhere in the code it said you could ask for your opponents help in making an in or out call. But going by the "if you didn't see it clearly out, it's in" rule, under what circumstances would you possibly ask for an opponents help? The very act of having to ask means you didn't see it clearly out, so it should be considered in and you shouldn't be asking, correct? (I don't care if you fall down and your hat covers your eyes -- if you have to ask, it's in, no?)

Like another poster said, in "friendly matches", calls and looser interpretation of the rules, i.e. catching a clearly air mailed shot, are common. But as most of us have seen, sometimes less adherence to the rules can lead to bad feelings among friends.

Calling a ball good that you don't clearly see out is codified in tennis, it's black and white. A retrospective look back truly doesn't effect anything.

Not being sure and "asking the opponent for help" is also codified. It allows for the opponent to let you off the hook for a call on your side of the court. Once asked for help and the opponent does make the call you must live with it. If the opponent is unable to make the call or is not sure either, you revert back to "if there is any reasonable doubt that a ball was in, it is considered good". So when you ask for help, you are truly asking for help, otherwise the point automatically goes to the opponent.

[beernutz]

Personally I play by the rule that either I am 100% sure a ball is out or else it is good. Five0 has the right take on this, IMO.

[heycal]

I was 100 percent sure when I made the call that I clearly saw the ball was out, which is why I called it out. Five seconds later, I was less than 100 percent sure.

So reverse the call and give up the point once the doubt crept in, that's what you guys are saying?

[kingdaddy41788]

I think in a friendly match if you both agree to play a let that should suffice. But if you want to be really technical you should give him the point the moment you doubt yourself.

[Geezer Guy]

Originally Posted by heycal

I was 100 percent sure when I made the call that I clearly saw the ball was out, which is why I called it out. Five seconds later, I was less than 100 percent sure.

So reverse the call and give up the point once the doubt crept in, that's what you guys are saying?

Yes - that's what we're saying. If you're not POSITIVE it's out, call it in. You had some doubt after your out call after you made it, so you should have changed your call.

Your friend INSISTED that you won a point that you think you lost. Even though you argued, he insisted. That's what a good sport does. That's a good example to learn from.

As to your other question about asking your opponent for help on a line call, in my experience that's used when either you're WAY out of position, or maybe when the ball bounces behind you for some reason. It's not done often. If your opponent says he didn't see the ball clearly, it's played as IN.

[burosky]

I think for a friendly match, it is whatever call you guys agree on. I realize that in this case there was a disagreement. As such you can go by the technical rules to resolve it. I agree with was already said. If you are unsure if it was in or out, you have to call it in. In your case, by proposing to play a "let", this means you were unsure. As such, you should have just called it in and gave the point. I understand though that in a friendly match a "let" is normally played.

As for your other instance, technically, it is your opponent's call because theoretically, he is closer to the ball when it landed and supposedly have a better view. The only exception is if for some reason he is not in a position to see the ball land. Therefore, his call should stand.