Is it proper to hit your FH's and BH's using the same side (face) of your racquet?

[AceofBase]

That would be harsh on your arm if you play the same as your dominated hand.

[JavierLW]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

Because there are two sides of a racquet both with an open stringbed for a reason. You are supposed to use both sides of the stringbed to play tennis. Or else they might as well just make one side solid with just a few holes for aerodynamics. It's like those ping pong paddles made for players that use penhold grips which only have the rubber on one side.

Almost all the better players in the world use both sides of their racquets. I also don't know of any teaching pros that would teach people to hit with only one side of their racquets.

Ummm.... No, if you made one side solid with just a few holes for aerodynamics, then both sides would be solid.

Racquets use strings that are strung on a 2 dimension plane that has two sides, that's the "reason".

You're making things up to support your argument, stop that. Unless you live in some other dimension where you can have a racquet solid one one side and with strings on the other. (sounds like something out of the show Doctor Who)

I get where you are going, but your arguments are silly and I hear them from people all the time.

All the better players in the world tend to stand several feet behind the baseline when they are returning. As a 3.5 player does it mean that I should do it that way?

All the better players in the world serve the ball over 90mph and usually 100mph. What's wrong with me?, I should be doing that....

I think it's silly to use something that a pro is doing to support an argument about something an amateur can do. I get it, you like using the "classical" strokes and you are very proud of yourself. Congradulations for that.

(I use the Eastern grip forehand and the Continental grip for the backhand (1H), if anyone nit picks me and says I should be using the Eastern backhand, they are just being silly)

[OrangeOne]

Can someone tell me that muster did or didn't do as BP asks? Thinking on his backhand, I'd think Muster, as I said above. Anyone have any muster footage?

Anyways - I do this, I hit my Western FH and my 1HBH with the same side of the racquet, but I change my grip. Now what's the issue there? I change 'under' the grip instead of 'over' it as it's a (much) shorter change between my two grips. No-one coached me to do it (or not), and remarkably, when I first came to get my coaching qualification, the head of the school & association was somewhat interested when he realised I did this. Interested, not instantly dismissive BreakPoint. Maybe that's something you should consider - seeing a point of difference as something to learn from, instead of seeing something you disagree with and assuming it's wrong.

So let's be clear - is such a scenario as mine in BP's crap category? Or am I excused on the basis of grip changes?

There's a "right" way and there's a "wrong" way. Doing it the "wrong" way just makes you look like a hack out on the courts and limits your tennis skills. Doing it the "right" way allows you to develop a complete game, like Federer's.

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

If you want to hinder your own tennis development, be my guest.

If you want to look ugly and awkward playing tennis, be my guest.

No one who does this has ever won Wimbledon. I'd rather look smooth and have effective shots with variety, a la Federer.

Bit obsessed with how we look, aren't you?

There's a very good reason why he's the GOAT. He never would have achieved what he has achieved doing this.

What, BreakPoint relying on pure speculation and creating an argument based on it? Never. I simply can't believe it

Newsflash: The number 2 player in the world doesn't look smooth when he's playing, neither did players like Muster, Courier, etc. They are all amazingly effective and successful players, and I'm betting they don't give a damn about how they looked when they were winning their GSs.

There's a very good reason why no one in the Top 20 does this and why no teaching pros would ever teach this. They would likely lose their teaching license and be de-certified by the USPTA.

Can someone in the US tell me if the USPTA actually decertifies people for teaching techniques that BreakPoint disagrees with?

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by OrangeOne

Can someone in the US tell me if the USPTA actually decertifies people for teaching techniques that BreakPoint disagrees with?

Nope, they don't.

J

[OrangeOne]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

Nope, they don't.

J

Thanks J, last time I commented on something in the US, BP simply dismissed my comment as I don't live in the US....

[jonline]

I don't think that it is necessary, but I also don't think that there is a right way to play tennis. All strokes are different and there are a great number of non-textbook players who are extremely good at the sport. I've heard of people hitting a lot weirder than that.

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by OrangeOne

Thanks J, last time I commented on something in the US, BP simply dismissed my comment as I don't live in the US....

Here to help.

The only thing the USPTA de-certifies people for is not paying their dues.

J

[iamke55]

Come on, guys, stop taking this topic so seriously. It's clear from the tone and content of the posts that BP is just trolling or joking around here like in the Racquets forum to up his post count. Would someone who actually thinks like this honestly be able to find a computer and register at his mental health institution?

[mclee025]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

Because there are two sides of a racquet both with an open stringbed for a reason. You are supposed to use both sides of the stringbed to play tennis. Or else they might as well just make one side solid with just a few holes for aerodynamics. It's like those ping pong paddles made for players that use penhold grips which only have the rubber on one side.

Almost all the better players in the world use both sides of their racquets. I also don't know of any teaching pros that would teach people to hit with only one side of their racquets.

Wasn't there once a racquet built with two string beds on the racquet face at one time. I think the idea was that you could use one string bed for your forehand and then the other (presumably strung differently) for your backhand.

With one sided hitters, this could be used to an extra advantage. Think about being able to change the play characteristics of your racquet in mid point to suit the situation. Of course that would require a grip change. LOL!

[habib]

Geez you started a thread and poll about this? Ok, let's get to the root of the problem here: what is it about this technique (or whatever you want to call it) that is so invalid or bad? What? If you use a W forehand and E backhand, what's the issue? In fact, wouldn't not having to fool around with changing your grip actually be an advantage in some circumstances? If you hit a W forehand at an opponent at net and he knifes a quick volley to your backhand, isn't it nice to not have to change grips, but just turn your shoulders and hit the ball? I just think there's no rational reason to not do this if your grips coincide (W fh to E bh, SW fh to EE bh, H fh to C backhand, etc...), apart from the argument that, "Well very few pros do it and no one teaches it." So what? No one hit or taught a serve like Roddick's until he started doing it, is it wrong if it's effective? If you're naturally using a W fh and E bh, why would you be at any greater risk of injury using one side of the racquet and not changing grips rather than rotating the racquet 180 degrees between shots and using both sides? If it's a question of the strings moving too much in one direction from constant impacts to one side, flip the thing over between points! It just makes no logical, rational, or valid sense to condemn this practice. There's no reason for it.

Edit: You should add a third, "Eh what could possibly be wrong with it?" option for your poll, since the two you have are extremes. That is, it's obviously not the "proper" way to do it since "proper" methods are established by the tennis community, but neither is it "wrong."

[OrangeOne]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

How is that even possible unless you're able to twist your wrist completely around at a stressful angle and then spin the racquet over 180 degrees? That sounds like it takes enough time for your opponent to go get a drink in between your shots. LOL

Are you really not following? Go grab a racquet. Hold it with a Western FH grip. Take an air-swing. Follow-thru onto your BH side. Catch with your other hand. SLIGHTLY change your grip to a topspin-BH grip of your choice, hit with the same side of the racquet. For me, it's maybe a 10 degree change, without doubt the most efficient change possible.

So before you LOL & emoticon yourself into a vacuum about it taking forever, maybe understand what's going on. There's no stressful angles, no spinning racquets 180 degrees, none of that. Fast, efficient. The only time I wouldn't do such a change is if i were changing to a conti grip to volley or similar...

Why am I not surprised?

So everything must be taught by a teaching pro, based on current thinking? Great to see you're open to learning and innovation.

Ask most teaching pros. If it was not "wrong", they would all be teaching it. Yet, I'd bet most will tell their students not to do that.

I'm with JR, if I see a student with good stroke mechanics, who is changing grip efficiently and effectively, I couldn't give a toss which side of the racquet they hit the ball with.

Yes, nobody likes to watch ugly tennis. Is it any wonder why tennis is losing it's popularity?

You keep worrying about how you look when playing, I'll keep playing to win.

What speculation? How many players in contention as the GOAT have done this? How about none? No need to speculate when facts are available.

Are you so blinded by your own reflection that you can't see that the below in red - your quote that I was replying to - is speculation?

There's a very good reason why he's the GOAT. He never would have achieved what he has achieved doing this.

And have Nadal, Muster or Courier won the most prestigious tournament in tennis?

Nope. You got me there, players who have been dominant number 1's, dominant clay players, etc etc - some of the better players in the last 20 years - haven't won Wimbledon because their style didn't look pretty. Who cares. You'd probably give your left *pick a bodypart* to have had 10% of the tennis career of either of those three players.

No need to because none of them would ever purposely teach it. They may tolerate it if a student has been doing it for many years and can no longer change, but they would NEVER purposely teach anyone to do this from the beginning.

Your ability to generalise is something to be admired. Your ability to form wonderful arguments based on generalisation and speculation is deplorable. You're saying - of the X-thousand coaches in the USPTA, no-one would teach this grip change? You're dreaming again. There are people in the USPTA who are no doubt criminals, pedophiles, transgendered, hell, probably some scrunchers who never fold. Some pretty small subsets of the population there, and yet you can't imagine some saying to a student: try changing it this way, it works quite well?

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by OrangeOne

Can someone tell me that muster did or didn't do as BP asks? Thinking on his backhand, I'd think Muster, as I said above. Anyone have any muster footage?

I just watched some clips of Muster and it appears he DOES NOT do this but uses both sides of his racquet.

You can find his clips on Youtube.

[OrangeOne]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

The only way anyone can hit their FH and BH using the same side of the racquet is to turn their wrist, and thereby racquet, over 180 degrees so that the top edge of the racquet that's perpendicular to the ground is now the bottom edge. If the top edge stayed on top, you'd be hitting with opposite sides of the racquet.

Our wrists don't 'rotate' 180 degrees in the direction being discussed here. You're making it sound all contortionist, when in reality it's the arm performing the movement and taking the wrist along mostly for the ride. The process of changing wrist alignment happens naturally as the arm moves throughout the transition of the racquet across the body and through the backswing.

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

Why is it that none of these new "innovations" have proven to be better than the "classic" way that Federer and Sampras (and almost all the pros) use?

Better is subjective. Sampras and Federer are physiological and tennis freaks in the best possible way, and they may well have succeeded with any style. It's also of note that, to date, neither have been able to truly succeed on clay. Agassi, well there's a player with a much less 'conventional' game, and he was able to GS on all surfaces.

And obviously you weren't "open to learning" as you never learned to do it the "proper" way.

I'm open to many things, and I'm always interested to see new and innovative ways of doing things, of solving problems, of increasing efficiency or effectiveness. I'm telling you, as an experienced player, that this works for me. It may not work for Federer. I couldn't care less....

[lolsmash]

Doesn't Henin use a Semi-Western FH grip and an extreme eastern backhand grip? Doesn't that mean she sometimes hits the ball on the same side of the racket? She doesn't need to change the grip if she decideds to drive a forehand and then drive a backhand, so why should she switch grips instead of rotating her hand?

There is nothing wrong with hitting on the same side of your racket. Hold a racket with a semi-western grip. Hit a forehand with a windshield wiper finish.Now, turn your shoulder and close your stance like you are hitting a one hander. OMGWTFBBQ you might actually have to hit the ball on the same side of your racket.

[OrangeOne]

Based on BreakPoint's lovely (and very backwards) thinking, coaches, please, stop teaching the 'Sampras (Jumping) Smash' immediately - save your students, your reputation AND your USPTA membership!

Most of the time he jumped quite high - instead of staying stable on the ground. Sometimes he was even known to launch and jump backwards, he rarely took a full swing and often caught the ball very late with phenomenal wrist snap. Way too often he smashed a ball so high that all coaches in the USPTA would shake their heads in horror, and collectively say "if only he'd ran back instead, let the ball bounce and hit a safe shot in reply". Some were even heard to say "he simply should have let that lob go for a winner, it's the proper thing to do. After all, that's what BreakPoint would do!".

We all know it was new, innovative, and hardly anyone did it before Sampras - and thus it is bad, it should be outlawed, blacklisted at once.

Don't coach it, don't do it. It isn't 'proper'. It certainly therefore can't be BreakPoint approved (and coaches, beware, you may lose your USPTA accreditation for teaching this shot). Anyways, why would you want to teach it - it's for sure that, because it's a new & innovative shot, that no-one could ever win Wimbledon even once by using it!

[OrangeOne]

Originally Posted by lolsmash

Doesn't Henin use a Semi-Western FH grip and an extreme eastern backhand grip? Doesn't that mean she sometimes hits the ball on the same side of the racket? She doesn't need to change the grip if she decideds to drive a forehand and then drive a backhand, so why should she switch grips instead of rotating her hand?

There is nothing wrong with hitting on the same side of your racket. Hold a racket with a semi-western grip. Hit a forehand with a windshield wiper finish.Now, turn your shoulder and close your stance like you are hitting a one hander. OMGWTFBBQ you might actually have to hit the ball on the same side of your racket.

You're about the 3rd or 4th person now to try and make this point to BreakPoint, and none of us have succeeded! I hope your attempt does, it seems he gets all tied up in knots trying to learn something easy & new, while we're all out at the courts using it comfortable. I'm sure players like Henin, Muster, etc etc have used this often enough (and especially when caught short or under pressure).

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

And obviously you weren't "open to learning" as you never learned to do it the "proper" way.

Have you ever tried it? Ever hit a semi/western FH? Ever hit a two hander? Ever tried EE backhand? Ever used a granny stick? Ever just mashed from the back court? Ever played 5 sets on clay? Ever played tour level players? Ever served pinpoint/platform?

If you have, then that is what I call open to learning.

If you have not, and just say things are improper without trying them, then THAT is what I call not being open to learning.

You want to be like Federer, we get it. There are other ways to play the game. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. The thing we are talking about isn't like serving with a western forehand grip. These are both legitimate strokes.

Tell me WHY technically hitting an EE backhand, OR a SW forehand is wrong.

J

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by lolsmash

Doesn't Henin use a Semi-Western FH grip and an extreme eastern backhand grip? Doesn't that mean she sometimes hits the ball on the same side of the racket? She doesn't need to change the grip if she decideds to drive a forehand and then drive a backhand, so why should she switch grips instead of rotating her hand?

As far as I can tell, Henin does NOT do this but uses both sides of her racquet. The last time I watched her play I was specifically looking for this and it appears to me that she is using both sides of her racquet as the top edge of her racquet remains on top from forehand to backhand.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by OrangeOne

I'm sure players like Henin, Muster, etc etc have used this often enough (and especially when caught short or under pressure).

Nope, they haven't as far as I can tell.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by lolsmash

How many times did Nadal beat Federer? What is Nadal's current ranking? As far as I see it, Nadal is a product of the modern game with some stuff that was completely unheard of.

Even Nadal uses both sides of his racquet. He also hits a 2HBH which is different anyway.

Originally Posted by lolsmash

Did players in the 80s produce the violent spin that players do now? Come on.

That spin is mostly the result of the bigger, lighter, more powerful racquets and the polyester strings. Not the result of using the same side of your racquet.