It is quite impossible for us to even come close to hitting like a pro but.........

[Venetian]

Originally Posted by Rpp

I guess you have never seen a top-1000 player in a match?? Many more thousands tries to get there and they all likely have a desire...it is just not for everyone. Those players in lower rankings of professional game should get a bit more respect.

What I'm saying is that becomming a professional level tennis player requires both natural athletic ability and training. These players are not just born to be awsome at tennis, they work hard at it for many years. There are plenty of people out there that are good solid athletes, that if they worked really hard for years to play tennis, could also have a shot at being a pro. These people either choose to play other sports or do something else entirely different, not utilizing their abilities to be good at tennis. Not everyone that has the potential to be good at tennis has the means or desire. I'm sure plenty of gifted athletes chose other sports instead of tennis. Who knows how good Michael Jordan could have been at tennis had he played it since childhood instead of basketball, with the same drive.

There are probably many players trying to break into the top 1,000 that either completely lack any natural talent, and only have worked hard for years, or have no work ethic and try to get there on talent alone. That's also why many people don't break into that realm.

I know many other guys in the military that can run like the wind, lift huge amounts of weight, and have exceptional hand-eye coordination. All of that could transfer into excellent tennis playing, but they're not interested in playing tennis, or any other professional sport.

[0d1n]

Originally Posted by Venetian

Yes I believe I could actually. Do I know for certain that I would be the 1200th fastest sprinter in the world if I tried? No.

I was the fastest sprinter at the 100m and 200m in track at my school and the 2nd fastest went on to run well in college for his track team. Who knows how far I could have gone? But I chose instead to join the military and raise a family, because I consider that more meaningful than being a professional athlete. Had I really wanted to try though, I could have. Maybe I would have been a top sprinter, maybe not. There's no way to know what could have happened had someone made different choices in their life.

Again, I do not know how good I could have become at a number of activities because I chose to focus on other things, and I'm sure there are many people like me out there.

Yup, and during high school Al Bundy scored 4 touchdowns in a single game...

[burosky]

Originally Posted by Venetian

Yes I believe I could actually. Do I know for certain that I would be the 1200th fastest sprinter in the world if I tried? No.

I was the fastest sprinter at the 100m and 200m in track at my school and the 2nd fastest went on to run well in college for his track team. Who knows how far I could have gone? But I chose instead to join the military and raise a family, because I consider that more meaningful than being a professional athlete. Had I really wanted to try though, I could have. Maybe I would have been a top sprinter, maybe not. There's no way to know what could have happened had someone made different choices in their life.

Again, I do not know how good I could have become at a number of activities because I chose to focus on other things, and I'm sure there are many people like me out there.

I applaud your belief in yourself. No one here can judge you. You could very well be correct in your assessment. For all we know, you could be one of those "blessed" athletes. To say though that they are all just average people appear to be incorrect. Maybe some of them but as their ranking get higher there is always going to be something that separates them from the amateurs. It is that something that makes them above average.

[Venetian]

Originally Posted by 0d1n

Yup, and during high school Al Bundy scored 4 touchdowns in a single game...

Them's fightin' words.

[Bad Dog]

Originally Posted by OrangeOne

You're dreaming, as are many in this thread.

I'm a 4.5 to 5.0 player (I'm in Australia, we don't have USTA ratings here). Sometimes, I've played against 5.5 players, who have more natural talent in their little finger than I do in my body. Think of the best 5.5 in your area, and know that they had almost zero chance of making it as a pro, and there's thousands of them across the world. Ten's of thousands, even. Many of them played 5 or 6 days a week as a junior, and would have gladly gone pro if they could.

OR

Go to a pro tournament. Walk in, feeling confident. Wander past a pro or two, thinking "wow, they look human too". Then stand on the sidelines in the practice courts, during a training session. 10 minutes, any top male or female....and you'll know they're not only phenomenal, but that they're also playing what is almost a different sport.

That puts life in perspective.

But let's console ourselves by remembering that most of us may have a non-tennis job or career that we take pride in and are extremely good at, since we've had many years of experience to hone our skills – and that most international touring pros may fail if they switched places with us.

[Venetian]

I think too many people have a general lack of faith in themselves and hero worship celebrities and athletes far too much. I'll end with that though as I've said as much as I can think to say.

[WBF]

Originally Posted by OrangeOne

Go to a pro tournament. Walk in, feeling confident. Wander past a pro or two, thinking "wow, they look human too". Then stand on the sidelines in the practice courts, during a training session. 10 minutes, any top male or female....and you'll know they're not only phenomenal, but that they're also playing what is almost a different sport.

Indeed.

I'll occasionally get to a pro tournament, and seeing the matches, I'll trick myself into thinking how easy it would be. They make mistakes, unforced errors, etc.

Then I watch them on the practice courts, where I am reminded of my place in the tennis world

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by cstephenson

Its not how fast you are its how well you anticipate. It helps to be fast but if you already know where the ball is going you can be a true tennis Jedi. You can play lots of people with pro level speed but only pro's have pro level anticipation.
Work on your anticipation first and then work on your speed. It won't matter how fast you are if you are running to the wrong place.

Clint

This is what I was going to say. But I also want to add to it. Do the math. The shortest sprint is the 100 meter dash. How far does a tennis player have to run? The court is 36 feet wide, standing in the middle, that is 18 feet to each sideline. 18 feet is only 6 yards! How far is it to the net from the baseline? Only 13 yards! What if the track meets had 6 yard and 13 yards sprints? The winner would be whoever anticipated the start.

In tennis, every player has a fixed amount of time they just stare at the shot without moving. For beginners, this is as long as a second. They waste precious time. Moving immediately to where the ball is hit, takes experience, and that is why some old-timers can cover a court better than a speedster who's new to the game.

BTW, back in the 70's the Oakland A's baseball team decided to use a track star as a pinch runner, for the purpose of stealing bases. But, he never even stole one base! It seems that getting a jump on the pitcher matters more than raw speed. Similarly, in tennis it's likely that anticipation matters more in court coverage than foot speed.

[Frank Silbermann]

Originally Posted by snapple

If you are willing to put in the time and effort, I personally believe that you do not have to be an exceptional athlete or possess incredible physical skills to become a top 1000 ranked player. In general, IMO it is only the top 50 or so players that are truly gifted in a way that is out of the grasp of the rest of us mortals. Outside of this realm, I think if you are a very good athlete with solid physical skills, and you have the desire, discipline and committment (as well as access to proper training and coaching) you should be able to attain top 1000 status, and probably much higher than that. It is these latter qualities that really will determine the extent of your success.

I am in the top 1% in mathematics aptitude. That means that in a country the size of the USA there are approximately three million (!) people who have more math potential than me. And yet, the average person in my high school had no chance whatsoever of matching my math achievements no matter how hard he tried and no matter how hard he studied.

I suspect that you find the same disparities in athletic ability. If a player who cares about the game is in the top 1% of talent, the average person has no chance whatsoever of matching his skills, no matter how much he trains. And yet, just among Americans there would be three million people with equal or better talent.

So, no, the _average_ person has no chance whatsoever of making the top 1,000 -- no matter what he tries (short of bribery and threats of violence). The _average_ person who throws himself into the game body and soul has precious little chance even of becoming the best player in his own city.

So what if you are "a very good athlete"? That depends on what you mean by "very good". I would say that a person who is in the top 1% is an _extremely_ good athlete, and yet, such a person has as little chance of making the top 1000 tennis players as I had in making the top 1000 mathematicians in the world. (I couldn't have come even close.)

[raiden031]

Am I the only person who isn't all that amazed at the pro game? I actually think they look better on TV than in person. I have watched a few 5.0 level players a little bit and couldn't tell much of a difference between their game and a pro. The pros make so many unforced errors compared to what I'd expect for the years of experience they have. The main difference I find is the pros often have noticably better serves, but I am not amazed by their other strokes or athleticism. To me the main difference between a pro and a 5.0 player is more subtle than just the way their strokes look. They can place the ball better, have better anticipation and shot selection, they are more consistent even though you can't tell because of all the UEs when they're playing against someone of the same level. I just don't see the big deal in their strokes.

[Venetian]

Originally Posted by raiden031

Am I the only person who isn't all that amazed at the pro game? I actually think they look better on TV than in person. I have watched a few 5.0 level players a little bit and couldn't tell much of a difference between their game and a pro. The pros make so many unforced errors compared to what I'd expect for the years of experience they have. The main difference I find is the pros often have noticably better serves, but I am not amazed by their other strokes or athleticism. To me the main difference between a pro and a 5.0 player is more subtle than just the way their strokes look. They can place the ball better, have better anticipation and shot selection, they are more consistent even though you can't tell because of all the UEs when they're playing against someone of the same level. I just don't see the big deal in their strokes.

I'm generally not that impressed either. I love to watch and play the game, but these guys aren't gods to me or anything.

It seems like you can just say the name Federer and people on this boad start drooling and go into convulsions.

[OrangeOne]

Originally Posted by raiden031

Am I the only person who isn't all that amazed at the pro game? I actually think they look better on TV than in person. I have watched a few 5.0 level players a little bit and couldn't tell much of a difference between their game and a pro. The pros make so many unforced errors compared to what I'd expect for the years of experience they have. The main difference I find is the pros often have noticably better serves, but I am not amazed by their other strokes or athleticism. To me the main difference between a pro and a 5.0 player is more subtle than just the way their strokes look. They can place the ball better, have better anticipation and shot selection, they are more consistent even though you can't tell because of all the UEs when they're playing against someone of the same level. I just don't see the big deal in their strokes.

Originally Posted by Venetian

I'm generally not that impressed either. I love to watch and play the game, but these guys aren't gods to me or anything.

It seems like you can just say the name Federer and people on this boad start drooling and go into convulsions.

Anyone who plays tennis, is below 5.5+ themselves, and can go stand on the sidelines of a pro practice session (not in the stands of a match, where you're too far away), and not be amazed, well, they need to take an ego check.

The power, the work on the ball, the accuracy, the fitness, and the ability to cope with power & work on the ball... all amazing. Pros make too many UE's? You're dreaming. Pros make UEs against the shots of other Pros, on the biggest stages in the world. You think Fed would rack up many UEs beating the average 5.5? Golden sets here we come.

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by OrangeOne

Anyone who plays tennis, is below 5.5+ themselves, and can go stand on the sidelines of a pro practice session (not in the stands of a match, where you're too far away), and not be amazed, well, they need to take an ego check.

The power, the work on the ball, the accuracy, the fitness, and the ability to cope with power & work on the ball... all amazing. Pros make too many UE's? You're dreaming. Pros make UEs against the shots of other Pros, on the biggest stages in the world. You think Fed would rack up many UEs beating the average 5.5? Golden sets here we come.

I've watched up close during match play (not practice sessions), and while its obviously above my level, it doesn't look that amazing. Their movement, strokes, and power don't look much different than some of the better players I might see at my club. I'm sure they would crush these players at my club simply because they will be in direct control of the points the whole time due to the more subtle qualities of their game, such as placement, shot selection, and consistency.

And yes pros make tons of UEs, which to me takes away from their God-like appearance. Just like I can hit better in practice than a match so can the pros. When I play a level below me I can win a match making almost no errors as well. I don't see a difference in the pro game other than the fact that they are just simply the best players at all the strokes and strategies, but there's nothing magical about their game, to me.

[Golden Retriever]

They make UEs because they have to come up with a great therefore risky shot everytime. If a shot isn't great it will get pound on. They literally have to go almost all out for every shot.

[OrangeOne]

Originally Posted by Golden Retriever

They make UEs because they have to come up with a great therefore risky shot everytime. If a shot isn't great it will get pound on. They literally have to go almost all out for every shot.

And they have to make that great shot against a pro-level shot. They have to get to shots that would blindly be a winner against you or I, and send them back with a quality reply....

[mucat]

Originally Posted by raiden031

Am I the only person who isn't all that amazed at the pro game? I actually think they look better on TV than in person. I have watched a few 5.0 level players a little bit and couldn't tell much of a difference between their game and a pro. The pros make so many unforced errors compared to what I'd expect for the years of experience they have. The main difference I find is the pros often have noticably better serves, but I am not amazed by their other strokes or athleticism. To me the main difference between a pro and a 5.0 player is more subtle than just the way their strokes look. They can place the ball better, have better anticipation and shot selection, they are more consistent even though you can't tell because of all the UEs when they're playing against someone of the same level. I just don't see the big deal in their strokes.

Pros can hit much much much......much harder than a 5.0 level. The differences are not subtle at all. I don't know what are you trying to say. From the perspective of a beginner I can understand, but for someone who played enough tennis, I don't understand.

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by mucat

Pros can hit much much much......much harder than a 5.0 level. The differences are not subtle at all. I don't know what are you trying to say. From the perspective of a beginner I can understand, but for someone who played enough tennis, I don't understand.

What I'm trying to say, as an intermediate player, is that I don't notice a major difference in velocity from 5.0s that I've seen playing at a club or a pro I've seen in person at a pro match. I notice a considerable difference in the men's serving speed at the pro level, but the rest of the game doesn't appear that much different to me. I'm not going to say there is no difference, just from my observation it doesn't look much different. I will say that I think the women's pro game is actually slower than men's 5.0 players. Although I have yet to see any top women's players up close. Once again I could be wrong, but thats just how it appears to me.

[WBF]

Raiden and Venetian:N When you reach the 5.0 or higher levels yourself, you will realize how silly you sound right now.

mucat raiden and venetian: Power alone is absolutely *not* the difference. I hit shots as hard as the pro's back in and *before* high school (groundstrokes, didn't develop my serve that far until college). Back then I remember thinking the same thing, because I simply didn't know better. I used to play against my 5.0 father all the time and think to myself "wow! he should be a pro!"

There are many factors that combine to create the vast difference between a 5.0 and a pro.

Footwork: The ability to maintain this level of footwork throughout a 3-5 set match, twice a day if needed.
Power: The ability to maintain this level of power consistently, and against equally or more powerful and deep shots.
Few (if any) Weak Points: If you have a weak point that can be capitalized on, you will stand no chance in the pro's.
Mental Game: This one is underestimated big time. Just because you can hit professional level shots doesn't mean you know how to use these shots to win the point. Very important.

And many more. It's too early to think more though

[Venetian]

Deleted........

[goober]

Originally Posted by Venetian

In my humble opinion, anyone who is so amazed by simple human beings playing a sport needs to get their priorities straight. I'm pretty sure my ego is well checked.

I've seen a lot of amazing things in this life and none of them involve professional tennis.

Sorry but I'm just not blown away by these people like you guys I guess.

I agree. People seem to worship pro athletes which is why they are probably paid so much. Celebrity worship of actors, models and pro athletes is completely overblown in this country, but that is a whole different thread for discussion