It is quite impossible for us to even come close to hitting like a pro but.........

[mucat]

Originally Posted by WBF

mucat raiden and venetian: Power alone is absolutely *not* the difference. I hit shots as hard as the pro's back in and *before* high school (groundstrokes, didn't develop my serve that far until college). Back then I remember thinking the same thing, because I simply didn't know better. I used to play against my 5.0 father all the time and think to myself "wow! he should be a pro!"

So, you could hit as hard as pros back then and you used to play with your 5.0 father and you thought he should be a pro......ok...

[WBF]

You were saying

Pros can hit much much much......much harder than a 5.0 level

This is simply wrong. Was my post that difficult to follow? I wasn't trying to be insulting, just pointing out my observations.

As for your response: I was pointing out that my inexperience lead to those conclusions. Most experienced players know that there is a vast difference between the 5.0 and 7.0 levels.

[mucat]

Originally Posted by WBF

You were saying

This is simply wrong. Was my post that difficult to follow? I wasn't trying to be insulting, just pointing out my observations.

I never hit with a 5.0 having a 100mph FH or BH. Also, Pro hit much harder (with consistency of course) with less effort (cleaner hit), more accuracy. I agree about the footwork part though. However, Pros can hit with consistently higher speed groundstrokes than a 5.0. There are a world of a difference between 5.0 and Pros. How can anyone says otherwise?

[WBF]

Originally Posted by mucat

I never hit with a 5.0 having a 100mph FH or BH. Also, Pro hit much harder (with consistency of course) with less effort (cleaner hit), more accuracy. I agree about the footwork part though. However, Pros can hit with consistently higher speed groundstrokes than a 5.0. There are a world of a difference between 5.0 and Pros. How can anyone says otherwise?

My argument is that a professional does not have a harder individual shot than a 5.0. There are many 5.0's with harder shot's than professionals. The difference is that a professional can hit with more power *consistently*, due to the factors in my previous post. I agree that there is a world of difference, I just disagree that individual shots by pro's are harder than those by 5.0's.

[mucat]

Yes, more power consistently, that's what I said before. I am not counting once in a blue moon shots. Also, A pros can probably give a 5.0 golden sets, that cannot be done by footwork alone.

[WBF]

So do you think there are no 5.0's with groundstrokes as powerful as a pro? I'm not talking about placement, point construction, or anything else, just how hard someone can hit groundstrokes with reasonable consistency (match-worthy)...

How much experience do you have in the world of tennis? Not in terms of years, but in terms of level of play and opponents...

As for pro's and golden sets... Maybe against a 5.0 with a weak serve and no real strong weapons... But by definition, that player would not be a 5.0. In an entire match, the 5.0 could (get an ace|hit an low probability winner|watch the pro make an unforced error)...

[mucat]

Originally Posted by WBF

So do you think there are no 5.0's with groundstrokes as powerful as a pro? I'm not talking about placement, point construction, or anything else, just how hard someone can hit groundstrokes with reasonable consistency (match-worthy)...

How much experience do you have in the world of tennis? Not in terms of years, but in terms of level of play and opponents...

As for pro's and golden sets... Maybe against a 5.0 with a weak serve and no real strong weapons... But by definition, that player would not be a 5.0. In an entire match, the 5.0 could (get an ace|hit an low probability winner|watch the pro make an unforced error)...

I have to include placement, depth, spin and consistency. Otherwise, some big fat joe can probably hit as hard as Pro once in a while. I have hit with 5.0 and higher players, however, I can't imagine I can hit with a Pro. Anyway, this is getting too detail for a theoretical match between a theoretical Pro and a theoretical 5.0.

[raiden031]

Pros might be better than 5.0 players at all the shots, footwork, shot selection, mental toughness, etc., but I don't think the game looks much different when you're watching a 5.0 vs. 5.0 or pro vs. pro. I'm sure stats will show that pros hit harder too, but I think that a 5.0 could rally against a pro, assuming the pro was hitting with tons of power, but not necessarily trying for winners. I think a golden set would be difficult for a pro to do against a 5.0. Of course 6-0 sets would be pretty routine, but these guys aren't perfect.

And you can say that pros are so consistent, but they hit so many UEs against weak balls, thats not a rare occurrence by any means. Yes they are more consistent than everyone else, but still not as consistent as I would initially expect of someone who has been playing the sport since they were 4 years old. If anything, this just shows how difficult this sport really is.

[tricky]

but I don't think the game looks much different when you're watching a 5.0 vs. 5.0 or pro vs. pro.

Mmm, not sure about 5.0, but yeah it's difficult to tell difference between a top-500 pro player and a good D1 player during practice. Both are pounding the ball and can make sick shots.

[arnz]

Originally Posted by raiden031

What I'm trying to say, as an intermediate player, is that I don't notice a major difference in velocity from 5.0s that I've seen playing at a club or a pro I've seen in person at a pro match. I notice a considerable difference in the men's serving speed at the pro level, but the rest of the game doesn't appear that much different to me. I'm not going to say there is no difference, just from my observation it doesn't look much different. I will say that I think the women's pro game is actually slower than men's 5.0 players. Although I have yet to see any top women's players up close. Once again I could be wrong, but thats just how it appears to me.

OK, I dont know what your point is. It looks the same speed as a 5.0, and yet you'll agree that 5.0's would be bageled by these pros, wouldnt you? Where do you think the huge difference lies?

Anyhow, at least you didnt make a claim like, "pros dont look that good to me, I can beat them" or "I serve way harder, and I can return Roddicks serve, he sucks" LOL. I thought you were gonna say something like that when you start saying pros dont look impressive to you. Too many posters in here like that

[Golden Retriever]

A "5.0" sprinter can run 100M in 10.09 sec, a pro sprinter can run 100M in 9.99 sec. The 0.1 sec makes a world of a difference. Remember a pro tennis player will get that "0.1 sec advantage" in every strokes and thats huge.

[goober]

10.09 is a world class time in the 100 m. That would win or place very high at many professional meets.

But having played a lot of people, I can safely say that I have not seen anybody who even comes remotely close to having world class sprint speed in recreational tennis. Anyways, as a former speedster around the court who is getting older, I have come to realize anticipation and court position are far more important than pure speed in tennis.

[burosky]

Originally Posted by arnz

OK, I dont know what your point is. It looks the same speed as a 5.0, and yet you'll agree that 5.0's would be bageled by these pros, wouldnt you? Where do you think the huge difference lies?

Anyhow, at least you didnt make a claim like, "pros dont look that good to me, I can beat them" or "I serve way harder, and I can return Roddicks serve, he sucks" LOL. I thought you were gonna say something like that when you start saying pros dont look impressive to you. Too many posters in here like that

I don't know if you've had a chance to play an official match against higher level players than you. If you have, you would have noticed that even if you have strokes that may resemble some of their strokes, it is still difficult to get points from them. I'm a 4.5 who has seen action and won past local league playoffs. I think I can hang with a majority of the 4.5 players I've seen. I played a 10.0 mixed match against a 5.5 guy and 4.5 woman. The 5.5 guy was just too much to handle. The only times I was able to solicit a point from him was when I hit one of my rare perfect shots or when his partner laid it out for me nicely for a kill. Otherwise, I felt like there wasn't much I can hit that would get me a point. The frustrating part is finding out that the shots I rely on to get points from players who I normally play with merely makes the shot a little bit more difficult for him but nonetheless doesn't hurt him much.

I would imagine this is how it would be for a high level recreational player to play a touring pro. In my case, my "A" game was just normal for him. Conversely, the "A" game of the 5.5 guy I played would probably be a normal or even an "off-day" for a touring pro. I think that's where the difference lies.

[Steady Eddy]

And when on a tennis court does anyone run anywhere near 100 meters? On a tennis court it's all about getting off to a quick start. Fox truthfully says in his book that coach's tell beginners, "Get moving, don't be so lazy." But the beginner doesn't know where the ball is going, so just stands there. It's not about being lazy. A great sprinter might still have poor court coverage as a beginner in tennis because of their 'one one-thousand two one-thousand then go' system of court coverage.

Same thing in two person beach volley ball. Ever try it? It seems impossible to cover with only two, it doesn't demand a spike to win, ordinary shots drop for winners. But when you watch good players, they don't even have to hurry most of the time, but that's because they're so good at quickly reading where the ball is going.

[burosky]

Another good example is football. Various pro teams have tried drafting world-class sprinters to play the receiver position. There maybe some who were successful in making the transition but there's a lot more who didn't. Jerry Rice may not be the fastest man in the NFL but he seems to always out run defensive backs who are known speedsters during his prime.

It is not all just about speed or power. There is so much more to it in tennis.