Do you understand what Tricky is talking about?

[BeHappy]

This is in no way a slight at tricky, but I genuinely can't understand what he's talking about because he has invented a lot of terminology/jargon that I have never heard before.I'm just wondering if I'm alone?

[fantom]

I was going to say the same thing a few days ago. His understanding of proper stokes is obviously good, but he uses too many musculo-skeletal words. We're tennis players, not physical therapists!!!

[smoothtennis]

I understand Tricky's terms because I took the time to really get out the racket, and observe what is happening in my strokes. At first, I didn't understand some of the terms, or concepts I'll admit.

I studied martial arts for 5 years, and at least in our school, we slowly discected all the physcial and structural elements that produce the power in stiking, blocks and postures. Joint positions, where the weight is balanced, where the weight transfers, where the elbows are placed for optimal structural integrity, etc. It is slow, it takes time and observation, and work.

With this background in another sport, then, I was able to see what Tricky was describing. Then I started feeling what he was describing, such as the pre-stretch going on in the forearm during the initiation of the forward movement in the forehand. Some lightbulbs started going off.

I have retooled my forehand, and I am amazed at the results honestly. It has taken my game to a new level - I genuinely mean that too. I owe a great portion of that to Tricky and EricW, whom I corresponded with on these threads to work out some of these concepts. Hey, as a result, I am planning on playing 4.5 in my next tournament, so I'll see where that takes me.

I also have many years behind me on examining strokes, technique, and so I was primed to hear what he was saying.

Tricky - a big thanks from over here bro!

[ananda]

he certainly lives upto his username!
hats off to tricky for the second time today.

[tricky]

Well, the push/pull thing I totally understand why it's confusing. It's terminology taken from weightlifting (i.e. "pull day" ,"push day"), but Bolliterri also describes the FH as being a pull, and the people at Easitennis informally talk about it being a "press" or "punch."

I could use linear vs. rotational, because that's also how it's described in baseball swings. I could also use ATP/WTA because, for the most part, the popular examples you see corroborate So I apologize about that.

That said, if you find yourself "hooking" your FHs often (i.e. the elbow coming up and out of the swing plane), even in your finish, you have a problem related to the above issue, and you'll have consistent problems with control, depth, and spin. Things that can't be solved by using more of your hips and legs or a deeper shoulder turn.

The other terms aren't original. For example, you can do searches here for "smile" or "pendulum", it's the textbook backswing associated with the 1 hander.

he certainly lives upto his username!

Yeah, I get that a lot here. I'll probably stop.

[LafayetteHitter]

Often times the guys with the ideas that are different may have the revolutionary idea that others should be trying.

[mrcalon]

I voted yes, but really I only understand sometimes!

[BeHappy]

Originally Posted by LafayetteHitter

Often times the guys with the ideas that are different may have the revolutionary idea that others should be trying.

I'd like to try, I just don't know what he's saying.

[anachronism]

the observation of the pronation in Federer's forehand backswing was genius. thanks Tricky!

[VaBeachTennis]

I voted yes. Tricky has some good advice and he can be pretty technical. That's where dictionary.com & google come in to play.

[Mountain Ghost]

Though I have yet to read a term or a concept of Tricky’s that I myself would use on a lesson court, I really don’t understand the purpose of singling out his descriptive methods as a thread topic or as a (concealed) point of personal contention by the OP. I find him to be smart, quite generous with his time and not at ALL antagonistic.

Even though I don’t use his terminology and I prefer more concise, down-to-earth and universally-familiar ways to visually describe “correct” technique to my students, I do think there is a place within the ever-expanding knowledgebase of modern tennis for observations and analyses such as his . . . and I encourage his continued efforts.

Bottom line, however, I find simplicity can work in magical ways. Sometimes just a few simple words on a well-chosen root-cause solution can “cure” many seemingly unrelated flaws that would otherwise require extensive time and distracting energy to explain or to work through.

MG

[BeHappy]

I really, really, really, really don't have any personal problem with tricky whatsoever, (you know this tricky don't you?), it's just frustrating because I know he knows what he's talking about, but it's just so hard to understand when someone's inventing terminology as they go along, it feels like learning quantum physics, to me at least.I was just wondering if I'm the only one.That really was the only purpose behind this thread.

I'd just like to add that I absolutely agree that he is smart and generous with his time, and I would never be antogonistc with a fellow student of the game.

I have nothing but respect for him.

[WildVolley]

I don't think this is really an attack on tricky.

He's a generous poster who has interesting thoughts about how to hit the modern forehand, but his descriptions usually lose me quickly. Even simple concepts like pronate and supinate are confusing to me once you start moving your arm all around.

I need pictures. Perhaps he should set up his own tennis website. I'm sure it would get some hits.

[BeHappy]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I don't think this is really an attack on tricky.

He's a generous poster who has interesting thoughts about how to hit the modern forehand, but his descriptions usually lose me quickly. Even simple concepts like pronate and supinate are confusing to me once you start moving your arm all around.

I need pictures. Perhaps he should set up his own tennis website. I'm sure it would get some hits.

I'm the same, need to pictures to understand the words.

[drakulie]

I sometimes have an extremely hard time understanding his posts, but he does put a lot of effort and time into them, and they seem to help a lot of people >>>> so hat's off to him!

[habib]

Tricky is practically impossible to understand! I, and I'm sure many like me, am particularly confused by his use of "the." I mean, christ Tricky, talk some sense, ok???

[tricky]

nd I'm sure many like me, am particularly confused by his use of "the."

Eh?!? (10 chars and a question mark!)

[BeHappy]

Originally Posted by habib

Tricky is practically impossible to understand! I, and I'm sure many like me, am particularly confused by his use of "the." I mean, christ Tricky, talk some sense, ok???

boo!
get off the stage ya bum!!!

lol

[tricky]

I really don’t understand the purpose of singling out his descriptive methods as a thread topic or as a (concealed) point of personal contention by the OP. I

It's Gorilla being Gorilla (i.e. he's curious but also very direct.) If he really has an issue with your explanations, he's going to let you know. (BTW folks, remember to hit that one-hander with bent arms and LOTSA wrist!)

Often times the guys with the ideas that are different may have the revolutionary idea that others should be trying.

I definitely agree. But nothing I say is revolutionary; it's just overcomplicated! (But seriously, the walls of text aren't original. It's just badly worded! )

Nah, it's something BeHappy's asked me to do a number of times, about attaching images to the words for proper descriptions. (Because really most of it is self-evident once you actually see it.)

In any case, this is as good as any to informally talk about U/smile patterns and C backswings. Probably not that useful per se, in improving strokes, but it kinda gives you a "big picture" of all the variations in the game.

Smile patterns and C backswings

This is a good 1H BH thread about the "smile pattern", and it covers the C backswing as well.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=100686

Almost all strokes in tennis tend to follow either a U/smile or a C/circular pattern. You can also interpret the Roddick takeback as being a (upside down) smile pattern, and the traditional takeback as a C pattern.

The general ideas goes like this:

1) There is no such thing as a true straight takeback, be it BH, FH, or serve. The takeback must fit either a C or U, circular or smile. If it's really flat or abbreviated, it's going to look straight from the 3rd person. But you will still feel the shape in your backswing.

2) Smile/U backswings are best suited for strokes that are "vertical" or should stay in roughly the same plane as the weight transfer.

3) C/circular backswings are best suited for strokes that are more "lateral" or across the body. Natural fit.

4) Sometimes you see a "mismatch", especially on the BH side. This isn't a bad thing either, because it lets you create great inside-out and DTL shots. But as a normal shot, you won't get the same power, and your mechanics will feel a little "unnatural."

For example, a lot of people learning the normal 1H BH have problems with keeping their forward swing in a straight down-to-up motion, and often open up unnecessarily. They also have issues with measuring the contact point consistently. Almost all of these people who have this problem use a C-backswing with their 1H BH. When they switch to the smile pattern, everything clicks.

Likewise, you rarely see people use a smile pattern with FHs anymore, since almost everybody swings across the body. This was more common when people used to hit a classical, closed/neutral stance FH with the wood (i.e. that's how I learned it.) If you tried to use a C-backswing with an old school swing, it probably felt awkward, as if the closed stance was constricting your body to "turn."

There's a lot more to do this, but that's the general idea.

[tennisace432]

I understand 90% of what tricky writes.

Tricky is a genius. You're one of the best posters around. I'm sick of all that old instruction out there. "Just bend your knees, watch the ball, get into the d bend to hit a monster forehand..."

If tricky actually invented the push pull concept, well that's smart.

Anyone trying to understand tricky, better have watched lots of slow mo vids, gone through tp.net, hi-tech, and several other sites. Understand biomechanics, pronation, supination, flexion, extension, etc...

Basically, this guy understands lots of stuff about technique and how the muscles works.