Players who do nothing but slice backhands

[Rickson]

I've seen a few players who only slice whenever balls come to their backhand sides and these are not 2 handers who are just slicing with the one hand, these are players who play with slice backhands exclusively as if that's the only way to hit a backhand. How did these people learn such a bad habit and how will they ever learn to hit a driving backhand?

[goober]

There are not a few players, there are tons of players that have slice only one handed backhands. These are especially prevalent on the 3.0-3.5 levels.

Why do they do it? It is easier to slice a 1 HBH than to hit topspin. Slice you can hit late, you can hit low or high balls and you can control it. Topspin drive requires better timing and much more practice to master it. Typically the players that slice only have little to no tennis instruction and they fall into the slice BH because it is comfortable to them.

[Rickson]

Don't ge me wrong, goob. I like playing slice only players and the last time I played one, I went to his backhand a lot and got a lot of vollies on his weak backhand. When will they figure out that the slice only backhand is a major liability?

[Venetian]

When they improve I guess. Or maybe they just don't enjoy hitting a flat or topspin backhand.

[origmarm]

I have this problem to an extent. I slice about 85% of my backhands, I hit the other 20% probably mostly flat with a little topspin. Its something I'm working on as I do reckon there are situations where its a disadvantage. The reason I fell into this is when I was taught (20yrs ago), the older pros taught mostly to hit mainly flat, which is now what I do, I later added a little slice or topspin (depending on the setup time I have) for control.

I would say this however, the slice I hit is a relatively "flattened out" slice if you will and goes low and flat over the net and will often sort of skid on some surfaces. A sort of "driving slice". This is a hard shot to return for some players.

I am trying to learn to add more topspin in some situations and may even adopt a 2hander (haven't decided yet, feels VERY strange to me, not a natural motion). I guess my point is that while I recognise its a problem sometimes, I think there are distinct types of slice backhand. The one that is slow and defensive and sits up high I think is definitely a problem, the other can be an offensive weapon

[goober]

Of course there are some good players that slice only, but these are usually the exception not the rule. Most club players who do this have a BH liability.

I use to slice all my BHs. Now I mix it up a lot more with about 50% slice. It really depends on whom I am playing. I tend to slice more against better competition. It is a lot easier to slice back ball that is coming in very fast or when I am slighty out of position.

[Tennismastery]

Don't forget that Steffie Graff got to be #1 in the world with nearly an exclusive slice backhand. And, Fabrice Santoro on the men's side is still competing at a top-50 world-ranked level with a slice forehand and backhand. (Actually two slice backhands, one on each side.)

However, players should note that there is a difference between a professional or highly skilled slice backhand and a weekend 'hackers' backhand slice.

But, as goober mentioned, the slice is not only biomechanically easier to hit, it feels easier because of two elements: The slice uses gravity to aid the racquets 'fall' into the stroke. And second, perhaps more obscure but equally compelling, is that it is easier to hit a ball that has topspin coming to you with slice. This is because with a slice, the player is only changing the direction of the ball's flight...not the spin that it has coming at you. And, because nearly every single ball that bounces first before you hit it will have topspin after the bounce, the slice hits the ball with a lot less friction of having to change the spin of the ball to topspin going the other way.

This is called the "spin advantage" for the slice. In other words, a ball that is spinning at say 4000 rpm's of topspin coming towards you, you will have to hit a topspin stroke that has the capacity of creating 4000 rpm's of topspin upon this ball just to get the ball to be hit flat, negating the 4000 rpm's the ball had coming at you. With slice, you are slicing the ball with the strings of your racquet brushing the ball in the direction it is already spinning.

[origmarm]

Originally Posted by goober

I tend to slice more against better competition. It is a lot easier to slice back ball that is coming in very fast or when I am slighty out of position.

Agreed, I tend to find that this varies depending on my opposition also.

Thanks Dave for the comments, always good to understand the reasoning behind what you feel. Interested in the part about it being biomechanically easier to hit, why is that?

[BeHappy]

Originally Posted by Tennismastery

Don't forget that Steffie Graff got to be #1 in the world with nearly an exclusive slice backhand. And, Fabrice Santoro on the men's side is still competing at a top-50 world-ranked level with a slice forehand.

why do people always say that santoro slices off both sides?He always hit's his 'regular' backhand with flat topspin unless he's pulled really really wide.

[Slazenger]

Originally Posted by Tennismastery

This is called the "spin advantage" for the slice. In other words, a ball that is spinning at say 4000 rpm's of topspin coming towards you, you will have to hit a topspin stroke that has the capacity of creating 4000 rpm's of topspin upon this ball just to get the ball to be hit flat, negating the 4000 rpm's the ball had coming at you. With slice, you are slicing the ball with the strings of your racquet brushing the ball in the direction it is already spinning.

This is actually incorrect. You don't have to equal the amount of rpm's the incoming ball has to get the ball to be flat.

[origmarm]

Originally Posted by Slazenger

This is actually incorrect. You don't have to equal the amount of rpm's the incoming ball has to get the ball to be flat.

Really? You would imagine you would need to generate the opposite force on the ball to end up with a neutral (or spinless) state as such

[TripleB]

Originally Posted by Rickson

I've seen a few players who only slice whenever balls come to their backhand sides and these are not 2 handers who are just slicing with the one hand, these are players who play with slice backhands exclusively as if that's the only way to hit a backhand. How did these people learn such a bad habit and how will they ever learn to hit a driving backhand?

Basically I developed this great habit with I was between 6 and 9 years old. Racquets back then were very heavy and it was easier (ie: the racquet felt lighter) to hit with slice than flat or with topspin (which wasn't as prevelent in the game back in the mid 70s).

This one shot got me to the semis in regionals (and I played 4 on my team) and made me all conference.

I have since (around age 17 developed topspin and slice off both sides but if I get in a tight match I always go back to my bread and butter, the backhand slice. The ball barely comes up off the ground and it's tough for guys who use huge topspin to come over the top of the ball. It's also very effective when approaching the net....if the ball don't come up off the ground your opponent has to hit the ball up which makes for an easier volley.

If I had to give up the ability to all different types of shots except one, I'd keep my slice backhand.

TripleB

[nousername]

Originally Posted by Slazenger

This is actually incorrect. You don't have to equal the amount of rpm's the incoming ball has to get the ball to be flat.

that's it??? you could say why. it's b/c the ball loses a ton of energy during its flight path due to air friction, and a lot of energy when hits the grounds. so no matter what the rpm is when you hit it, it had A LOT more the instant is was coming off your opponents racquet. so if you want to "equal" your opponents shot, thank the air and ground for doing *some* of the work for you.

but in the previous posters defense, if your goal is to to change the +4000 rpm to -4000 rpm, yes that is a 2-fold difference in energy. but don't expect it to be anything like your opponents shot. it'll be pretty paltry in comparison. =)

[nousername]

Originally Posted by Slazenger

This is actually incorrect. You don't have to equal the amount of rpm's the incoming ball has to get the ball to be flat.

oh, actually, technically, you are wrong. in my previous post i thought we were on the same page... after a re-read of your comment, maybe not.

the rpm of the ball is directly related to it's energy. in order to "cancel" that energy, which would get it flat. you need to provide EXACTLY that amount of energy (and slightly more do to losses like friction between the string and ball).

[Geezer Guy]

I had a really tough match last night against a guy that only slices his backhand. From his backhand side he has 3 very effective shots:
. hit's a nice driving slice down the line.
. hits a nice "floating" slice cross court that's usually a perfect dropshot.
. hits a pretty effective lob to either baseline corner.
After awhile I just started aiming everything at his forehand. At least then I had a better idea of where he was going with his shot.

[Slazenger]

You and tennismastery are correct.

Yes the ball picks up topspin after the bounce and if you want to return the ball with topspin you have to have greater rpm than that of the incoming ball.

I was thinking in general projectile terms, where it is technically possible to reverse the spin of the ball without having to change the spin by its incoming factor.

[fuzz nation]

I got to watch Fabrice Santoro play on several occasions this year on both grass and hardcourts... WOW! He'll throw either spin at an opponent off either wing and the funny thing is that he'll rarely hit the same ball two or three times in a row - it prevents his opponent from rallying with any kind of groove. His backspin balls float along like soap bubbles and when he hits a topspin drive, the gear change is explosive.

I've had a solid slice bh pretty much forever that gives me terrific margin for error and lots of control against heavy strokes and serves. The funny thing with it is that I can also hit winners with it despite the relatively slower pace - I can place the shot with extreme accuracy and it's easier for me to disguise my direction with this stroke than any other that I use. The hitting zone on a slice bh (for me) is enormous compared to a topspin shot, but there's nothing like changing direction from the baseline and driving a topspin bh up the line. The other topspin bh that I like is the quick two-hander for punching a return of serve with some authority, but I'm an avid all courter, so I chip 'n charge a lot, too.

[habib]

Originally Posted by nousername

oh, actually, technically, you are wrong. in my previous post i thought we were on the same page... after a re-read of your comment, maybe not.

the rpm of the ball is directly related to it's energy. in order to "cancel" that energy, which would get it flat. you need to provide EXACTLY that amount of energy (and slightly more do to losses like friction between the string and ball).

I'm not so sure about this at all, when you think about it, because there are a variety of factors that come into play. For instance, when you half-volley a heavy shot, there's no way that you're applying even close to the same energy to it, whether horizontal (pace) or vertical (spin) as your opponent, yet even the weakest half-volley (as long as it's not a slice) will reverse the spin on the ball.

[jb193]

I play a 4.5 routinely and he really hits a good slice. He just muscles the heck out of it. His stroke almost looks like a backhand volley where he keeps his arm real close to his body, but like I said, he muscles it a bit and kind of shoves it without much follow through, which makes the ball just pierce throught he court. It still has backspin, though, so it isn't necessarily a drive shot. I wish I had that shot.......

[skiracer55]

[quote=Tennismastery;1819419]Don't forget that Steffie Graff got to be #1 in the world with nearly an exclusive slice backhand. And, Fabrice Santoro on the men's side is still competing at a top-50 world-ranked level with a slice forehand and backhand. (Actually two slice backhands, one on each side.)

However, players should note that there is a difference between a professional or highly skilled slice backhand and a weekend 'hackers' backhand slice.

QUOTE]

John Newcombe and Ken Rosewall hit nothing but slice backhands, and they did pretty well, from what I remember. In general, you're better off if you have both topspin and slice, and you're definitely at risk if all you have is a weak slice. But if you can hit with decent pace, vary the amount of slice, and put the ball where you want (and your opponent doesn't...) slice only will work...