Men's 3.5 National Champs = self raters??

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by Backboard

My guess is most were self-rated.

A team full of 3.0 self-raters that win Nationals is going to take some heat. Having played at the state and sectional levels a couple of times, it would be highly unusual for someone to go from a first year self-rate (recognizing that 3.0 is a starter level) to National Championship caliber just on practicing hard. Almost impossible to develop the experience necessary to compete, no matter how hard you might have practiced.

Originally Posted by Backboard

I don;t think that's sandbagging. I think it is building a strong team and then driving guys hard to improve. Also, I can also tell you I never had so much fun on a tennis team.

Only you and your team mates will know for sure whether it was sandbagging or not and of course winning is fun. If you had players with prior competitive tennis experience of any kind (high school tennis, other league play, etc...) on your team, then they shouldn't have been on a 3.0 team. If you can honestly say that you held tryouts with guys who had never played other than recreationally and developed the skills and the experience all in one season.. then congratulations. If your team was built otherwise - then is an amateur championship at the lowest level of tennis worth it?

[Backboard]

We started the year with high-end 3.0 players and improved from there. And that's the way the competiton is structured to work. And yes we had a great time!

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by fe6250

If you can honestly say that you held tryouts with guys who had never played other than recreationally and developed the skills and the experience all in one season.. then congratulations. If your team was built otherwise - then is an amateur championship at the lowest level of tennis worth it?

You really didn't answer the question. How would one know that they had high-end 3.0 players if they were all self-rated? The real question is whether or not they had prior experience before self-rating. If the answer is 'yes' then the case is weak for self-rating as a 3.0.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by fe6250

You really didn't answer the question. How would one know that they had high-end 3.0 players if they were all self-rated? The real question is whether or not they had prior experience before self-rating. If the answer is 'yes' then the case is weak for self-rating as a 3.0.

I played on Backboard's team. Very few of our players had any measurable tennis experience. We had some really good athletes but limited with tennis experience. Both singles players were very good soccer players but relatively new to tennis. One had only played tennis for one year (but he was young and could run). Both could push (and push and push and push) the ball and run alot of balls down. Both have no pace pancake serves (if you would like to call them a serve) but they are both tenacious competitors. Anybody who believes we were a bunch of high level ringers are simply wrong. We were a competitive group but not highly skilled. If you counted every ace the combined team had during the year... you would not have take more than one glove off to count them.

Few of us had any measurable experience and I had not touched a racket in almost 20 years (I wasn't any good when I put it down 20 years ago anyway) but I did have some experience (not anything noteworthy but I had played some when I was young). I dropped 30 pounds (at a doctor's request to lose weight) because I played five times per week. From playing so much, I improved dramatically and most players on our team played at least 4 times per week; as a result the improved too. We played together and really developed a chemistry. Those who think we sandbagged are wrong; most here will not believe that but I am unable to change that perception. Had anyone watched us from beginning to end, they would have seen two distinctly different products. We were a vastly improved product in July from when we started practicing together in the prior October.

At Nationals I can assure you that we were a well liked team. In the finals, everybody not from Puerto Rico was cheering for us. All of our opponents thanked us for being such good sports and how we were one of the few teams that called the lines fair. Our opponents in the finals did not receive such great reviews from their opponents.

I will duck back out now and return to being a lurker.

[JavierLW]

Originally Posted by coyote

I played on Backboard's team. Very few of our players had any measurable tennis experience. We had some really good athletes but limited with tennis experience. Both singles players were very good soccer players but relatively new to tennis. One had only played tennis for one year (but he was young and could run). Both could push (and push and push and push) the ball and run alot of balls down. Both have no pace pancake serves (if you would like to call them a serve) but they are both tenacious competitors. Anybody who believes we were a bunch of high level ringers are simply wrong. We were a competitive group but not highly skilled. If you counted every ace the combined team had during the year... you would not have take more than one glove off to count them.

Few of us had any measurable experience and I had not touched a racket in almost 20 years (I wasn't any good when I put it down 20 years ago anyway) but I did have some experience (not anything noteworthy but I had played some when I was young). I dropped 30 pounds (at a doctor's request to lose weight) because I played five times per week. From playing so much, I improved dramatically and most players on our team played at least 4 times per week; as a result the improved too. We played together and really developed a chemistry. Those who think we sandbagged are wrong; most here will not believe that but I am unable to change that perception. Had anyone watched us from beginning to end, they would have seen two distinctly different products. We were a vastly improved product in July from when we started practicing together in the prior October.

At Nationals I can assure you that we were a well liked team. In the finals, everybody not from Puerto Rico was cheering for us. All of our opponents thanked us for being such good sports and how we were one of the few teams that called the lines fair. Our opponents in the finals did not receive such great reviews from their opponents.

I will duck back out now and return to being a lurker.

On a serious note, if what you say is exactly as you have painted it, then that sounds like a good trip.

If anything you should be annoyed at your teammate Backboard.

By constantly posting on the same subject and ragging about some people who called you guys sandbaggers, he's making you look like a bunch of whinny tools who probally are sandbaggers.

Maybe you are not, but that's the impression that it gives us.

(sort of like in football when the cornerback throws his arms up in the air to complain that he didnt commit pass interference when in most cases it means that he did)

And especially when he jumps on the bandwagons of other teams as well that he doesnt even know anything about.

(this thread isnt even about you guys)

It's a useless argument on both sides. Unless you give me a bio on every player on your team, you cant prove that you are not a bunch of sandbaggers. And why would you even care to do that???

And nobody else can necessarily prove you and sandbagging as well unless they know all of you guys, I'll admit that.

So let it go already. You won the National Championship for ~3.05, as much as you want to feel good about that, fame always comes with a price.

(if the price is someone calls you a sandbagger, Im sure you as an adult can live with that, right???)

[fe6250]

I'm still a little suspicious about the January 2008 join date and the 1 post - but hey I'll bite.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by fe6250

I'm still a little suspicious about the January 2008 join date and the 1 post - but hey I'll bite.

Feel free to be suspicious (yet another thing I cannot change) but I lurk around here quite a bit but I am not one to post messages. I joined and I posted. It would not allow me to post until I joined. At this point I think I will return to lurking.

[goober]

Originally Posted by JavierLW

You won the National Championship for ~3.05, as much as you want to feel good about that, fame always comes with a price.

Hah I didn't know one became famous after winning 3.0 nationals. I would have never known or cared about a 3.0 team if it weren't for the repeated threads on how they are not cheating or calling everybody losers and jealous, ect who thinks they are sandbaggers.

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by goober

Hah I didn't know one became famous after winning 3.0 nationals. I would have never known or cared about a 3.0 team if it weren't for the repeated threads on how they are not cheating or calling everybody losers and jealous, ect who thinks they are sandbaggers.

How true that is!

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by coyote

Feel free to be suspicious (yet another thing I cannot change) but I lurk around here quite a bit but I am not one to post messages. I joined and I posted. It would not allow me to post until I joined. At this point I think I will return to lurking.

Just a little. If what you posted is acurate then you guys did it the right way. Despite what Backboard may think - this is not the normal way it gets done (at any level) at Nationals. Congratulations.

[kylebarendrick]

After reading the constant threads from "he who shall be left nameless" I can no longer resist the urge to post a few facts for the sandbagging discussion.

FWIW, I'm not writing this as a "whiner and complainer". I've played on two teams that won my section and have won a flight at nationals. I also have friends that played on the Norcal team that won 3.5 nationals in 2006. Keeping some of this stuff in mind definitely helps me to have more fun on the tennis courts.

1) Virtually everybody that plays at nationals is ready to play at the next level.
2) Winning nationals at the 2.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, or even 4.5 levels means that you suck. A good 5.0 player would clean your clock - heck a good 12-year old girl would make a 3.0/3.5 look like a fool on the court.
3) Your winning team will be merely average at the next level.
4) Any team that wins their league, section, or nationals will likely be accused of cheating/sandbagging. Deal with it.
5) If your players self-rated according to the guidelines and everyone played every match to the best of their abilities, then you don't need to worry about those accusations - you played by the rules and someone has to win.
6) Some people really do cheat - they drop games/matches to keep their ratings down and hide during the regular season. The result? See #2 above.
7) Nobody outside of your team really knows if you played fair or not. No amount of explanation will change that. Again, deal with it.
Winning is fun. Losing should be also, if you have the right attitude.

[heavyballa]

dude, stop hating.
if you can't compete, your losses will repeat.
just bring the heat, knockin' down volleys,
like spraying bugs with deet.

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by heavyballa

dude, stop hating.
if you can't compete, your losses will repeat.
just bring the heat, knockin' down volleys,
like spraying bugs with deet.

Finally - some sense on this topic!

[New Kid On the Block]

Originally Posted by Backboard

REGARDING SO CAL MENs 3.5
I do not know the team nor any of the players. But checking TennisLink it looks like a lot of teams were competitive with them at Nationals. So CAL beat Inter-Mtn 4 -1 in the finals but only beat Southern 3 - 2 in the semi-finals. In their round robin they beat Nor CAL only 3 - 2 and they beat Hawaii only 3 - 2. That's pretty competitive.

My guess is that Sou CAL put together a strong team and got better as the year went on. They also got some breaks along the way. To call them cheaters is just a cheap shot. It is always easier to criticize the winners than to be successful in your own right. The name callers are largely ignorant individuals who have never been successful in their own right.

NEW KID,
Grow up and get a life of your own. Try to be successful at something yourself. Stop the whining and the name-calling. When another team is successful have the COMMON DECENCY to congratulate them.

Let me just put it this way, you are an idiot. I could give a rats *** about So Cal and their tainted trophy. What ever fills their egos. They blatenly cheated. Saying they had competitive matches is a joke. If you are a team playing with even three out of level players you are cheating. In their case both their singles players were compeletly cheating. OK so they started every match winning two courts our of five. So if they win 1 of the other three the match seems close, but they have two in the bag. CONGRATULATIONS SO CAL you manipulated the system to play against weaker guys so you could win a Plate, you are an embarrassment.

And Raider or whoever you are probably from California, why dont you play in the handicap league, you can replace Johnny Knoxville in the ringer. What a bunch of Pussies.

[New Kid On the Block]

Originally Posted by Backboard

fe250,
I'm not sure. I play but I do not captain. I attended one tryout and I think both computer and self-rated players were there. My guess is most were self-rated. I was told the tryout was for level 3.0 players and if I thought I was better than 3.0 the captain said he would help me find another team.

I don't know how he handled ratings nor what discussions took place. But I think most guys were going to self-rate 3.0 anyway. Most guys that did not make the cut ended up on other 3.0 teams. Personally, I had a second team that would have taken me but I wanted to play for this captain. He did get a lot of good players for the team and he made them better as the season progressed.

I don;t think that's sandbagging. I think it is building a strong team and then driving guys hard to improve. Also, I can also tell you I never had so much fun on a tennis team.

You call yourself a tennis player, you might as well be in the handicap league if you are going to play 3.0. Backboard you must really be a spas.

[max8176]

Originally Posted by kylebarendrick

After reading the constant threads from "he who shall be left nameless" I can no longer resist the urge to post a few facts for the sandbagging discussion.

FWIW, I'm not writing this as a "whiner and complainer". I've played on two teams that won my section and have won a flight at nationals. I also have friends that played on the Norcal team that won 3.5 nationals in 2006. Keeping some of this stuff in mind definitely helps me to have more fun on the tennis courts.

1) Virtually everybody that plays at nationals is ready to play at the next level.
2) Winning nationals at the 2.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, or even 4.5 levels means that you suck. A good 5.0 player would clean your clock - heck a good 12-year old girl would make a 3.0/3.5 look like a fool on the court.
3) Your winning team will be merely average at the next level.
4) Any team that wins their league, section, or nationals will likely be accused of cheating/sandbagging. Deal with it.
5) If your players self-rated according to the guidelines and everyone played every match to the best of their abilities, then you don't need to worry about those accusations - you played by the rules and someone has to win.
6) Some people really do cheat - they drop games/matches to keep their ratings down and hide during the regular season. The result? See #2 above.
7) Nobody outside of your team really knows if you played fair or not. No amount of explanation will change that. Again, deal with it.
Winning is fun. Losing should be also, if you have the right attitude.

Hey who do you know on the Fremont TC team? I know the captain and couple of guys well on the team as well. I think you are so right on in what you said. Pretty much if you win Nationals you should play in the next level next year but that does not mean that you are that level when you started. Like the 2006 Nationals team, they have practices every week and they do a lot of drill during those practices. In the end they playoff because they are not sandbaggers but they work hard to win. People always drop to conclusion that people cannot improve during the course of just a single season and automatically think these players are sandbaggers. There are those people though will cheat to win like people losing on purpose (there was some players in one of the teams in my 4.0 flight last year) to drop down their rating or misrated theirselves "purposedly". There are also players who will accuse someone of cheating in the first place to distract people and officials in looking at them carefully like one off the Bay Area combo team last year. I see it all.

[Kenpatchi11]

New kid on the block

hahaha you're a joke! there are only two types of teams. National Champions and those who wish they were. Bringing down the integrity of the 3.5 national champions to meet your level wont solve anything. So either live with it or continue crying like a little wuss... suck it up! Anytime you're in socal let me know so i can give you a good spanking on the court

[kylebarendrick]

Originally Posted by max8176

Hey who do you know on the Fremont TC team? I know the captain and couple of guys well on the team as well. I think you are so right on in what you said.

I'd rather not post names on a public board, but several of the players were on my 6.5 combo team the previous season. Definitely a good group of guys.

[JavierLW]

Originally Posted by Kenpatchi11

New kid on the block

hahaha you're a joke! there are only two types of teams. National Champions and those who wish they were. Bringing down the integrity of the 3.5 national champions to meet your level wont solve anything. So either live with it or continue crying like a little wuss... suck it up! Anytime you're in socal let me know so i can give you a good spanking on the court

(Loading team with self rating hired guns) != Integrity

A plastic trophy, a tshirt, and a photo behind some big banner maybe....Integrity, no.....

And that's just my opinion, if you feel sad about that, suck it up!

[Backboard]

Originally Posted by Kenpatchi11

New kid on the block

hahaha you're a joke! there are only two types of teams. National Champions and those who wish they were. Bringing down the integrity of the 3.5 national champions to meet your level wont solve anything. So either live with it or continue crying like a little wuss... suck it up! Anytime you're in socal let me know so i can give you a good spanking on the court

Well said Kenpatch. There are way too many whiners posting on this site. Most of them, like NewKid, have never been successful at anything in their miserable lives so they sling mud at those that are successful. If they had even a shred of decency they would congratulate all the teams which made Nationals!