To Bend or Not to Bend?

[Hooooon]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

Wow, I guess you're right. Don't know what I'll do now that I've read your opinion on the matter. Think I'll go eat some ice cream with the girls and try to be happy again.

you can afford to, you play 5 times per week! are you a 2.5 yet?

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by Hooooon

you can afford to, you play 5 times per week! are you a 2.5 yet?

Great - we are back to name calling again. NEXT!!!!

[randomname]

Originally Posted by Hooooon

watch any football today? was that 12 man on the field penalty "oppressive" because the guy was running off the field? no, it's a rule damnit. if any sport wants respect, it's rules need to be respected. maybe you like tennis players perceived as pansies... if not, don't question tennis

your argument makes no sense, of course they will call anything, they are professional sports umpires, if you break any rule they will call it (there is some leniency in sports like basketball, but not much) all your doing is pointing out that there are rules and umpires call them. we arnt talking about what umpires should or should not do, we are talking about what we, as players who make our own calls and have the benefit of BEING ABLE TO USE COMMON SENSE WHERE IT APPLIES should do

[tennis-n-sc]

[quote=AlpineCadet;2066688]

I would obviously call those balls "out" before I would stop them,

Another rule violation. The ball is in play until it hits out.

but when you are well beyond the baseline, some of those balls are just BLATANTLY OUT.

There is no such thing as barely out or blantantly out. It's just out after it hits out. Perhaps a diagram is in order.

It's just common sense to not take that point away from your opponent if they stop the ball. For this specific situation, I will honestly say that if you claim that point, you are using that rule the wrong way, and need some common sense.

Actually, any game with rules has them in place toremove the varying degrees of imagined common sense that may be perpetrated on the participants by those that claim all the common sense and know more than the rules. In other words, they call the game tennis but play it by only those rules that make sense to them.

[Hooooon]

Originally Posted by randomname

your argument makes no sense, of course they will call anything, they are professional sports umpires, if you break any rule they will call it (there is some leniency in sports like basketball, but not much) all your doing is pointing out that there are rules and umpires call them. we arnt talking about what umpires should or should not do, we are talking about what we, as players who make our own calls and have the benefit of BEING ABLE TO USE COMMON SENSE WHERE IT APPLIES should do

the point is that rules are rules. the nfl rule was unnecessary in that situation, yet properly enforced. if there was no likelihood of someone stopping an "in ball" in the air you beginners would have a point, but you don't.

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by tennis-n-sc

Actually, any game with rules has them in place toremove the varying degrees of imagined common sense that may be perpetrated on the participants by those that claim all the common sense and know more than the rules. In other words, they call the game tennis but play it by only those rules that make sense to them.

So what makes a person, approaching the net, NOT hit a fly ball that is sailing out of the court? Common sense? We all have common sense to judge the situation and depth of an incoming ball. Some are more obvious than the others. Your point is still subjective, so please don't think otherwise. You are a stickler, I get that.

[tennis-n-sc]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

So what makes a person, approaching the net, NOT hit a fly ball that is sailing out of the court? Common sense? We all have common sense to judge the situation and depth of an incoming ball. Some are more obvious than the others. Your point is still subjective, so please don't think otherwise. You are a stickler, I get that.

Your analogy is BS. I'm not a stickler, I just play the game according to the rules. You, on the other hand, are play a game with tennis balls and rackets but it isn't tennis. Not sure what it is. Perhaps you common sense will allow you to give it a name and you can then write your own rules. The Rules of Tennis have already been written.

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by tennis-n-sc

Your analogy is BS. I'm not a stickler, I just play the game according to the rules. You, on the other hand, are play a game with tennis balls and rackets but it isn't tennis. Not sure what it is. Perhaps you common sense will allow you to give it a name and you can then write your own rules. The Rules of Tennis have already been written.

Like I said, I understand that you are a stickler when it comes to the rules of tennis since you strictly enforce them without any gray areas at all. We'll just leave it at that, and accept things the way they are. Happy-tennis with everyone!

[AlpineCadet]

Originally Posted by Hooooon

you can afford to, you play 5 times per week! are you a 2.5 yet?

I know a losing argument when I see one.

Originally Posted by fe6250

Great - we are back to name calling again. NEXT!!!!

Originally Posted by randomname

your argument makes no sense, of course they will call anything, they are professional sports umpires, if you break any rule they will call it (there is some leniency in sports like basketball, but not much) all your doing is pointing out that there are rules and umpires call them. we arnt talking about what umpires should or should not do, we are talking about what we, as players who make our own calls and have the benefit of BEING ABLE TO USE COMMON SENSE WHERE IT APPLIES should do

Thanks guys.

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

I know a losing argument when I see one.



Thanks guys.

Somehow this thread has turned into a feud over whether or not someone should obey the rules. As the OP, it wasn't my intent to question the rules but rather to find out how people dealt with cases where they could choose to be a sportsman and give an opponent some slack. It was never my intent that someone would bend the rules to give themselves an advantage. Perhaps the difference lies in the level and type of tennis people are playing, but in my case at the 3.5/4.0 levels, I try to be a gentleman within reason and will cut someone some slack out there from time to time. I don't think that is bending the rules to suit my purposes, but allowing for the fact that I'm playing amateur tennis against other community members and recognizing that we are all still learning some of the rules.

[spiderman123]

Originally Posted by fe6250

Somehow this thread has turned into a feud over whether or not someone should obey the rules. As the OP, it wasn't my intent to question the rules but rather to find out how people dealt with cases where they could choose to be a sportsman and give an opponent some slack. It was never my intent that someone would bend the rules to give themselves an advantage. Perhaps the difference lies in the level and type of tennis people are playing, but in my case at the 3.5/4.0 levels, I try to be a gentleman within reason and will cut someone some slack out there from time to time. I don't think that is bending the rules to suit my purposes, but allowing for the fact that I'm playing amateur tennis against other community members and recognizing that we are all still learning some of the rules.

I am not even bothered by the ongoing debates and I don't think anything is going to come out of these discussions. People who claim that "we will be playing some other game if we don't follow the rules exactly" clearly have missed the essence of this poll.

I am very happy that people who said that they will use their common sense outnumber the sticklers 37 to 13. The % of players who prefer their common sense has always stayed close to 75% and that is what makes social and USTA league tennis without umpires such a fulfilling experience for me. When I play against the 25% sticklers, I will not argue with them to use their common sense(that never was intended) but I will not have any small-talk with them after the handshake either.

[raiden031]

[quote=tennis-n-sc;2067583]

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet

Another rule violation. The ball is in play until it hits out.



There is no such thing as barely out or blantantly out. It's just out after it hits out. Perhaps a diagram is in order.




Actually, any game with rules has them in place toremove the varying degrees of imagined common sense that may be perpetrated on the participants by those that claim all the common sense and know more than the rules. In other words, they call the game tennis but play it by only those rules that make sense to them.

If both opponents can see that the ball is clearly going to go out and both are confident that catching the ball is not going to change the outcome of the point, then I don't see what the big deal is.

Obviously if one person goes to catch a ball and his opponent thinks he shouldn't have done it because it was too close, then the guy who catches it should give him the point. Any reasonable players would handle it like this.

But if I'm standing near the fence and I catch a ball right before it hits the fence and my opponent tries to take the point, I'm going to think he's an ***.

[sureshs]

[quote=raiden031;2070370]

Originally Posted by tennis-n-sc

If both opponents can see that the ball is clearly going to go out and both are confident that catching the ball is not going to change the outcome of the point, then I don't see what the big deal is.

Obviously if one person goes to catch a ball and his opponent thinks he shouldn't have done it because it was too close, then the guy who catches it should give him the point. Any reasonable players would handle it like this.

But if I'm standing near the fence and I catch a ball right before it hits the fence and my opponent tries to take the point, I'm going to think he's an ***.

I would never do that or encourage it. Tennis is not a sport in which you catch the ball. Just let it bounce. What is the big hurry? Catching the ball can become a bad habit, like not putting on the turn signal because there is nobody on the road near you.

[boilerfan]

I haven't read all the pages, but it is interesting that this turned into a discussion on catching the ball. I was wondering if the opinions have anything to do when you started playing and what level you achieved. I have only witnessed someone catch the ball a few times and neither time was it somebody that played competively as a kid. Most people cringed when they saw it happen as if it was a pet peeve for them.

I think most players that played competitively as a kid can't imagine catching the ball in an official match. The rules are so ingrained and you are taught to not bend the rules that I have a hard time actually catching it even in a practice match. I can tell you that in all matches I have played, if a serve is shanked and hits the opponent or if the opponent can't get out of the way of the ball, the point is always taken. You may feel bad about taking a point on a bad shot, but that is what we were taught to do.

[spiderman123]

Originally Posted by boilerfan

I haven't read all the pages, but it is interesting that this turned into a discussion on catching the ball. I was wondering if the opinions have anything to do when you started playing and what level you achieved. I have only witnessed someone catch the ball a few times and neither time was it somebody that played competively as a kid. Most people cringed when they saw it happen as if it was a pet peeve for them.

I think most players that played competitively as a kid can't imagine catching the ball in an official match. The rules are so ingrained and you are taught to not bend the rules that I have a hard time actually catching it even in a practice match. I can tell you that in all matches I have played, if a serve is shanked and hits the opponent or if the opponent can't get out of the way of the ball, the point is always taken. You may feel bad about taking a point on a bad shot, but that is what we were taught to do.

FWIW, no, this is not a discussion about catching a ball, if it is good/acceptable etc. That was a hypothetical situation discussed to bring forth what the poll question is about.

And there can be some time where you are in a little hurry. But you need to be in the DC/MD area and losing by a point/game with 2 min left on the game-clock

[amarone]

I've only come across the ball being caught twice in official matches. The first time there was no obvious reason to do so - it was going to hit the back fence - so I let him have the point but asked him not to do it again. The second time the ball was going off to the side and would likely have gone over a low side fence and out of the court. A player ran across and caught it to stop it going out. I was absolutely fine with that.

[AlpineCadet]

You guys need to fix the errors with "[Quote.=tennis-n-sc;2067583]" because we're being misquoted here.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by fe6250

Somehow this thread has turned into a feud over whether or not someone should obey the rules. As the OP, it wasn't my intent to question the rules but rather to find out how people dealt with cases where they could choose to be a sportsman and give an opponent some slack. It was never my intent that someone would bend the rules to give themselves an advantage. Perhaps the difference lies in the level and type of tennis people are playing, but in my case at the 3.5/4.0 levels, I try to be a gentleman within reason and will cut someone some slack out there from time to time. I don't think that is bending the rules to suit my purposes, but allowing for the fact that I'm playing amateur tennis against other community members and recognizing that we are all still learning some of the rules.

Originally Posted by spiderman123

I am not even bothered by the ongoing debates and I don't think anything is going to come out of these discussions. People who claim that "we will be playing some other game if we don't follow the rules exactly" clearly have missed the essence of this poll.

I am very happy that people who said that they will use their common sense outnumber the sticklers 37 to 13. The % of players who prefer their common sense has always stayed close to 75% and that is what makes social and USTA league tennis without umpires such a fulfilling experience for me. When I play against the 25% sticklers, I will not argue with them to use their common sense(that never was intended) but I will not have any small-talk with them after the handshake either.

I'm totally with fe and spiderman on this one. I generally like to stick by the rules but will bend them when there is a common sense reason to do so, or in the interests of sportsmanship.

In fact I played a match last night where both situations came up:

1. There was a large water puddle on the court alongside one of the back fences. So we were all catching / blocking balls going clearly long on that side of the court to prevent them from getting wet. This was just the practical thing to do. Had we decided to follow the rules exactly, we would eventually have ended up with just a bunch of really wet balls and nothing to play with.

2. Serving from the deuce side, I miss-hit a first serve badly and it ended up hitting the opposing net player on the foot. He was in the center of the ad-court service box (was not cheating towards the middle at all). I could have claimed the point of course, but instead called it a fault. If he was trying to poach, or I did it deliberately to send a message, I would have claimed the point. But since it was completely unintentional and my serve was clearly off-target, I felt that this was the sportsmanlike thing to do.

By the way, if the situation was reversed, and my opponents did claim the point, I would of course understand and would not complain. I guess it's a personal decision we all make for ourselves... kinda like making line calls - if I see an opponent's ball as out but am only 95% sure, I'll give my opponent the benefit of the 5% doubt and call it in; some folks would just call that out and that's ok.

[fe6250]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

1. There was a large water puddle on the court alongside one of the back fences. So we were all catching / blocking balls going clearly long on that side of the court to prevent them from getting wet. This was just the practical thing to do. Had we decided to follow the rules exactly, we would eventually have ended up with just a bunch of really wet balls and nothing to play with.

Orange - I think that is one of the best examples I've seen of where it really makes sense in amateur tennis to use some common sense. I'm sure in the pros or a high-end tourney - these conditions are unlikely to exist, but those of us in the world of amateur USTA recreational tennis deal with this type of situation from time to time and have to use our heads.

Thanks for the post!