Rule Question/ Need your opinion

split-step · 03-16-2008, 06:53 PM

Me and a bunch of my friends hit the courts Saturday for a round robin thing we put together.
There's one guy I am very competitive with and I played him first.

I hit my first serve long. A ball then came onto our courts from the next court. It took a while to get the ball back to its owners.
I then asked my opponent if I could take 2 serves instead of just a second serve.
He asked why, and I told him because of the let and that I knew I would miss my second serve because I had lost rhythm because of the break in play. He says I had never done that before. I then asked one of the other guys watching us and he concurred that after a let, you get 2 serves.
My friend was obviously annoyed and said to me not to give him a look like I'm a badass. (lol)
I told him I was not trying to cheat him just following the rules.

I served and actually hit a kick serve just to pacify him. He netted the return. He then proceeded to be james blake on all my serves and he didn't make one first service return. (Not to brag but my first serve is not the kind of serve you can take a good whack at 4.5 and down)

We were only playing 4 games and rotating since it was a round robin and we didn't want it to take long.

I won 4-0. He then started being a baby and stopped talking to me. I drove him to the tennis courts and was going to take him back and he just jumped in my friends car without saying anything. He can be a little girl like that sometimes.

Was I wrong in requesting to take 2 serves? Plus I only needed one.
Is he justified because I haven't done it before? Must one continue the way they have always done things??

swimntennis · 03-16-2008, 07:07 PM

He obviously could've handled it much better. I'm not sure what the ruling is on this, or if you play exactly to the USTA rules or whatever.

Next time pacify him and take just a second serve or whatever. It'll probably be worth it just to not deal with him.

bsandy · 03-16-2008, 07:12 PM

No.

He does not have to give you a let, unless it took an inordinate amount of time to chase down the ball, or you had started you motion for your second serve.

. . . Bud

ChipNCharge · 03-16-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsandy

No.

He does not have to give you a let, unless it took an inordinate amount of time to chase down the ball..

Quote:

Originally Posted by split-step

It took a while to get the ball back to its owners.

10 characters

Nellie · 03-16-2008, 08:12 PM

I have always wondered about this - because it does not seem to be a let until you start the service motion. So if you have started and have to stop, that would be 2 serves. but if you are bouncing the ball and not yest in the motion, there would not be a let?

split-step · 03-16-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsandy

No.

He does not have to give you a let, unless it took an inordinate amount of time to chase down the ball, or you had started you motion for your second serve.

. . . Bud

It took a longer than usual amount of time to get the ball back to the other court. I didn't go into detail in my OP because it was long enough already.

The ball came to our court and ended up at the net. One of the other guys was waiting for us to finish and was sitting at the chairs on the court which is right by the net so my opponent and I assumed he would pick it up since he was nearest to the ball.
He was on the phone with someone and didn't even notice the ball at first. After noticing it, he really took his time to get the ball, walk across the court, throw it to the other guy and walk back to his chair.

If I had gone to the net and thrown it, I wouldn't have asked for 2 serves.

Geezer Guy · 03-17-2008, 06:16 AM

Seems pretty iffy.

If the ball was resting at the net and no one was coming for it, why not just take your second serve and play on?

Maybe your opponent could have offered you two serves, but since he didn't you should have just taken a second instead of making a big deal of it.

chroix · 03-17-2008, 07:09 AM

Asking for an additional serve? Were you playing your grandmother? Sure he reacted poorly, but asking for another serve is asking for some sort of a bad reaction IMO.

Cindysphinx · 03-17-2008, 07:44 AM

You only get a second serve if the receiver says so. Me, I don't even ask. The only time I would ask and insist on it is if I actually hit my second serve.

When I am receiving, I don't give two serves for a let unless it was a highly unusual situation. The time it takes to clear an ordinary ball to a neighboring court -- which is all you describe -- wouldn't qualify.

matchpoint · 03-17-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by split-step

I hit my first serve long. A ball then came onto our courts from the next court. It took a while to get the ball back to its owners.
I then asked my opponent if I could take 2 serves instead of just a second serve.

You're entirely correct, it doesn't matter how long it took to get the ball back.

USTA Ruling 23. The Let
USTA Comment 23.1: What happens when the server is interrupted during the delivery of the second service.
Answer: The server is entitled to two serves.

We do this in our club all the time, we give the server the first serve whenever there is an interruption of serve. Tennis is a gentlemans game.

Cindysphinx · 03-17-2008, 10:30 AM

Interruption *during the delivery* means you are in mid-stroke or have at least begun your service motion.

Sure, players can do more than what the rules require, as a courtesy. The rules do not require it in this case, IMHO.

split-step · 03-17-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer Guy

Seems pretty iffy.

If the ball was resting at the net and no one was coming for it, why not just take your second serve and play on?

Maybe your opponent could have offered you two serves, but since he didn't you should have just taken a second instead of making a big deal of it.

I did take a second serve.

split-step · 03-17-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chroix

Asking for an additional serve? Were you playing your grandmother? Sure he reacted poorly, but asking for another serve is asking for some sort of a bad reaction IMO.

Hmm, I've been offered 2 serves for situations just like this, and I've offered 2 serves as well in the past. I thought it was standard.

It's good I posted as now I can kind of see where his reaction was coming from.

Thanks for your responses guys and Cindy.

NLBwell · 03-17-2008, 11:00 AM

I would have volunteered to give you a let, since it was a significant break in the action between the two serves. I think any fair person would have done that. Tennis is supposed to be a gentleman's (and gentlelady's) game.

matchpoint · 03-17-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Interruption *during the delivery* means you are in mid-stroke or have at least begun your service motion.

Sure, players can do more than what the rules require, as a courtesy. The rules do not require it in this case, IMHO.

The problem with the USTA ruling is there is an element of time between the first and second serve to be considered interruption. It says if it is prolonged, it is considered interruption. The problem with unofficiated game is who determines if the time is prolonged or not? This is the reason why in our club we just made it automatic first serve because we do not want it to become ugly where it becomes tit for tat. You didn't give me a first serve, i won't give you one too.

Rafael_Nadal_6257 · 03-17-2008, 07:46 PM

The rules in tennis are very subjective. Next time, just take a second serve, as keeping a tennis partner is more important than another serve.

Solat · 03-17-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafael_Nadal_6257

The rules in tennis are very subjective. Next time, just take a second serve, as keeping a tennis partner is more important than another serve.

the same could be said to his opponent "just give him two serves, keeping a tennis partner is more important than another serve"

es-0 · 03-18-2008, 03:07 AM

I think I remember something like this happening in one of the Tennis magazines, and I believe they said picking up a ball between your first and second serves isn't long enough to call a let on. But, eh...

Loco4Tennis · 03-18-2008, 03:36 AM

^ good post, i think i would agree with you as well on this
lets say someone had to go to the bathroom, or pause the game and stepp off the court in mid play, that would be a prolonged time in my opinion

Supernatural_Serve · 03-18-2008, 04:21 AM

Your opponent can offer you 2 serves and you can accept or deny the offer.

You can request 2 serves in this case, but you have no right to complain if he denies your request. Its the receiver's choice not the server's choice.

Your opponent can have a temper tantrum any time he likes before during or after the match. Its best when they have them during the match.

The rule of thumb where I play is that one almost always offers 2 serves when another ball from an adjacent court lands on your court between serves.

03-16-2008, 06:53 PM	#1
split-step Professional Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,018	Rule Question/ Need your opinion Me and a bunch of my friends hit the courts Saturday for a round robin thing we put together. There's one guy I am very competitive with and I played him first. I hit my first serve long. A ball then came onto our courts from the next court. It took a while to get the ball back to its owners. I then asked my opponent if I could take 2 serves instead of just a second serve. He asked why, and I told him because of the let and that I knew I would miss my second serve because I had lost rhythm because of the break in play. He says I had never done that before. I then asked one of the other guys watching us and he concurred that after a let, you get 2 serves. My friend was obviously annoyed and said to me not to give him a look like I'm a badass. (lol) I told him I was not trying to cheat him just following the rules. I served and actually hit a kick serve just to pacify him. He netted the return. He then proceeded to be james blake on all my serves and he didn't make one first service return. (Not to brag but my first serve is not the kind of serve you can take a good whack at 4.5 and down) We were only playing 4 games and rotating since it was a round robin and we didn't want it to take long. I won 4-0. He then started being a baby and stopped talking to me. I drove him to the tennis courts and was going to take him back and he just jumped in my friends car without saying anything. He can be a little girl like that sometimes. Was I wrong in requesting to take 2 serves? Plus I only needed one. Is he justified because I haven't done it before? Must one continue the way they have always done things?? Last edited by split-step : 03-16-2008 at 06:59 PM.

03-16-2008, 07:12 PM	#3
bsandy Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,991	No. He does not have to give you a let, unless it took an inordinate amount of time to chase down the ball, or you had started you motion for your second serve. . . . Bud __________________ My girlfriend told me if I bought another tennis racquet she'd leave me -- Darn I'm going to miss her.

03-17-2008, 07:44 AM	#9
Cindysphinx G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14,082	You only get a second serve if the receiver says so. Me, I don't even ask. The only time I would ask and insist on it is if I actually hit my second serve. When I am receiving, I don't give two serves for a let unless it was a highly unusual situation. The time it takes to clear an ordinary ball to a neighboring court -- which is all you describe -- wouldn't qualify. __________________ -- Random Error Generator, Version 4.0 -- Master Moonballer

03-17-2008, 10:30 AM	#11
Cindysphinx G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14,082	Interruption during the delivery means you are in mid-stroke or have at least begun your service motion. Sure, players can do more than what the rules require, as a courtesy. The rules do not require it in this case, IMHO. __________________ -- Random Error Generator, Version 4.0 -- Master Moonballer

03-17-2008, 07:46 PM	#16
Rafael_Nadal_6257 Semi-Pro Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: IN Posts: 494	The rules in tennis are very subjective. Next time, just take a second serve, as keeping a tennis partner is more important than another serve. __________________ NADAL FEDEREr DjoKOVIC SafIN NALbandIAN RoDiCk MoyA Ferrer gasquet...