Fed or Djoko vs Rafa - Who Played Better?

[shintan17]

Originally Posted by Iced_jacob

I d like to see those two playing each other in the FO semi and the winner to face rafa in the final...

Yeah, me too. It will be a great match, though..I hope "The Joker" doesn't retire!!

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by Iced_jacob

I d like to see those two playing each other in the FO semi and the winner to face rafa in the final...

Oh God yes! It´s Fed´s turn to play Joker in the SF at the FO this time. Last year Nadal beat both of them back to back and only lost one set in total.

[sliceroni]

Just like their previous match Fed blew the lead AGAIN! Frustrating, he's my fav player but man, he's gotta stop saying "i didn't play my best when i needed" and just capitalize on holding serve and closing it out! All mental, he needs to get over that hump and not let him back in the set after being up 4-1 of 5-1 like the last two matches otherwise he won't be winning the French this year...

[montx]

I think Federer is great because he just is great player.

But with due respect given, talent-wise I believe Novak and Nadal look most promising this year. I do believe Fed can do it without a shadow of a doubt but he's at a point he really needs to dig deep and I mean really deep.

I don't think Fed played his best game against Nadal but I think he was also taken out of his game. Nadal went in tactically and won by his tactics.

Federer did try hard but was clearly tested to the brink. Although Federer is good, the talent around him and against him is also impressive. He really needs to find some way to get back in the very best form.

[dh003i]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

I think Federer plays the right type of game to beat Nadal on clay. You cannot allow Nadal to control the center of the court and run you around like a yo yo. Djokovic is trying to outbackboard Nadal, a mistake Lendl made against Borg at the FO final. To beat Nadal you have to play 110%, and completely smother him with immense firepower. Even then, on clay, you just have to pray that he is having an off day.

And of course you have to stick to your gameplan and not stupidly revert to a baseline competition when you're up 5-1...

Also, Federer should've used more drop-shots. He has a good drop shot.

[dh003i]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

It´s an interesting question. Before Hamburg I would say Federer but in this event Joker really pushed Nadal. I say that from now on Joker will be a bigger threat to Nadal on clay than Fed. Mainly because Nadal can´t really get cheap points or short balls from Joker´s backhand as opposed to Fed´s backhand. But also Joker believes he can win where Fed pretty much showed us today what he really thinks about his chances of beating Nadal on clay again. Lastly, time is no longer on Fed´s side. As the years go by Fed will decline slowly and his clay skills will diminish as well while Joker is just heading into his prime. There, I threw the Joke man a bone.

Except we know Federer is a better clay-court player than Djokovic, see the lesson he was giving him at MC before Djoko retired.

Although match-up wise, maybe Djoko's 2HBH makes it easier against topsin.

But I think that mentally, no, Djokovic doesn't have it. He really fought in the SF, but before that, he quit. So who knows.

I don't think Fed's collapse shows he thinks he can't beat Nadal. If he thought that, I don't think he'd be in the clay-court season at all as the #2 on clay. He wouldn't be making clay-finals...why even try that hard? I think it is just a stupid pattern on his part, reverting to the bad tactics that invariably play to Nadal's strengths. If he plays the same aggressive tennis he played to get 5-1, he wins that first set.

To be sure, Nadal had a lot to do with that...but there's no way you can say that the set wasn't on Fed's racket at 5-1.

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by dh003i

Except we know Federer is a better clay-court player than Djokovic, see the lesson he was giving him at MC before Djoko retired.

Although match-up wise, maybe Djoko's 2HBH makes it easier against topsin.

But I think that mentally, no, Djokovic doesn't have it. He really fought in the SF, but before that, he quit. So who knows.

I don't think Fed's collapse shows he thinks he can't beat Nadal. If he thought that, I don't think he'd be in the clay-court season at all as the #2 on clay. He wouldn't be making clay-finals...why even try that hard? I think it is just a stupid pattern on his part, reverting to the bad tactics that invariably play to Nadal's strengths. If he plays the same aggressive tennis he played to get 5-1, he wins that first set.

To be sure, Nadal had a lot to do with that...but there's no way you can say that the set wasn't on Fed's racket at 5-1.

I would agree that if Joker and Fed play on clay Fed would win. BUt the thread asked about who challenged Nadal more. I think this week Joker did. Nadal came into the match with #2 on the line and he was fresh and very ready. He was in a dogfight and I saw he couldn´t really break down his backhand as he does with Fed´s backhand. Joker´s backhand is deadly because he can handle the spin and most importantly change direction of the shot to crosscourt and down the line which would hurt Nadal. Fed´s backhand will give Nadal time to set up points and eventually his backhand will either break down or give him short balls to take control of the rally. There´s a lesser chance of that happening with Joker. Plus, Joker still has alot of time ahead of him to change esults while Fed probably has less time to do much of a change vs Nadal on clay. Time is on Joker´s side when it comes to challenging Nadal on clay in future encounters. Today was probably the beginning of that.

[Ripster]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

I would agree that if Joker and Fed play on clay Fed would win. BUt the thread asked about who challenged Nadal more. I think this week Joker did. Nadal came into the match with #2 on the line and he was fresh and very ready. He was in a dogfight and I saw he couldn´t really break down his backhand as he does with Fed´s backhand. Joker´s backhand is deadly because he can handle the spin and most importantly change direction of the shot to crosscourt and down the line which would hurt Nadal. Fed´s backhand will give Nadal time to set up points and eventually his backhand will either break down or give him short balls to take control of the rally. There´s a lesser chance of that happening with Joker. Plus, Joker still has alot of time ahead of him to change esults while Fed probably has less time to do much of a change vs Nadal on clay. Time is on Joker´s side when it comes to challenging Nadal on clay in future encounters. Today was probably the beginning of that.

I agree. I think that Djokovic played a much better match against Nadal than Federer played today. Djokovic had a lot of break points in that deciding set and things just didn't go his way (breaking strings, hitting let cords). I'm not saying that Djokovic should have beaten Nadal, but tactically he played a much better match than Federer, and again I think the difference is the backhand. Federer has to constantly go out of his way to run around his backhand while Djokovic is usually positioned better in the court because he's not as fearful of getting a backhand; his two-hander is steady and he takes it earlier and can hit winners with it constantly.

Nadal just has a way of getting in Federer's head on ALL surfaces but especially on clay. With that said, I have a really STRANGE feeling that Federer will win the French Open this year....you can quote me on that.

Q: --

FEDERER: Yes, I watched a bit of the Djokovic an Nadal match. It was interesting. It was good how Djokovic played on clay. I don't play that way, that's why I could not take so much out of it for myself. But you can see that against most of the top players on clay Rafa is mostly the defensive player who needs to run a lot. But he doesn't do a lot of mistakes and can sometimes turn things around and play aggressively. That's why he is so strong. He moves as good as nobody else. That's why he is just the best at the moment.

from Roger post match interview - http://www.tennis-x.com/story/2008-05-18/i.php

[Nadal_Freak]

Originally Posted by Ripster

I have a really STRANGE feeling that Federer will win the French Open this year....you can quote me on that.

People have been having that strange feeling for many years now. So far he has come empty.

Originally Posted by Nadal_Freak

People have been having that strange feeling for many years now. So far he has come empty.

So then its fair to say the same applies to Nadal's non-clay slam chances!

[Nadal_Freak]

Originally Posted by nikdom

So then its fair to say the same applies to Nadal's non-clay slam chances!

I don't go out saying Nadal is going to win those either. I know Nadal is an underdog on anything other than clay. Know your role. It's not clay for Federer.

[Ripster]

Originally Posted by Nadal_Freak

I don't go out saying Nadal is going to win those either. I know Nadal is an underdog on anything other than clay. Know your role. It's not clay for Federer.

I don't think that's fair. If Nadal wasn't around, then Federer would have two, maybe three French Open's and people would be saying he's one of the best clay courters of all time.

Fed beat Nadal in Hamburg last year and had two match points against him in Rome. None of their previous matches have been straight set victories for Nadal, they've all been tight matches.

Originally Posted by Nadal_Freak

Know your role.

WTH does that mean?

[Nadal_Freak]

Originally Posted by Ripster

I don't think that's fair. If Nadal wasn't around, then Federer would have two, maybe three French Open's and people would be saying he's one of the best clay courters of all time.

Fed beat Nadal in Hamburg last year and had two match points against him in Rome. None of their previous matches have been straight set victories for Nadal, they've all been tight matches.

Not that tight. Rome was the only one and Nadal was completely exhausted in last years Hamburg and the courts were lower bouncing. Rome has been known to be the fastest clay. Yeah Nadal usually likes faster (higher bouncing) clay but Rome seems to be even faster than normal. Roddick getting to the Semis as an example. Nadal and Djokovic are around so I doubt Fed ever wins RG.

[Nadal_Freak]

Originally Posted by nikdom

WTH does that mean?

Know what your player is able to do and not able to. Fed is not able to knock off Nadal on Roland Garros type clay unless Nadal isn't 100%. Even than Nadal could still beat Federer as proven by today.

Originally Posted by Nadal_Freak

Know what your player is able to do and not able to. Fed is not able to knock off Nadal on Roland Garros type clay unless Nadal isn't 100%. Even than Nadal could still beat Federer as proven by today.

So you're officially saying Nadal has no chances of winning any non-clay slams ever and that you do not expect or wish that to happen either. And you have arrived at this position because you want to justify your stance against Fed's chances on clay..... nice

[fastdunn]

Federer's game just does not match well against Nadal. The score does not matter. It's the backhand and running forehand stretched wide.

Plus Djokovic continuously tried varieties like drop shot, volleys more aggressively. Did not really discouraged. Tried those until the end. Nadal really had to pull everything from his bag of weapons.

[Nadal_Freak]

Originally Posted by nikdom

So you're officially saying Nadal has no chances of winning any non-clay slams ever and that you do not expect or wish that to happen either. And you have arrived at this position because you want to justify your stance against Fed's chances on clay..... nice

Fed's best shot was 2006. He couldn't do it than so time isn't on his side. Even a tired Nadal was able to beat Federer at this point. I think he has dropped off. Hopefully for Nadal that Fed continues to struggle with confidence at Wimbledon. So the conclusion is Nadal has a better shot of winning Wimbledon than Fed has of winning the French Open.

[Holdfast44ID]

So, I'll say Federer. He was up 5-2 in the first set, until the injury timeout, and he won the second set.

I think Federer had the mental letdown in the first set. However, he was going for his shots til the end in the third set. Djokevic hit a drop shot on match point rather than going for his shot. He gave up on the last point of the match. I don't think Djokevic will like the fact he went out on a dumped drop shot. I guess double-faulting on match point could be worse.

Nadal was able to get to both players mentally...