The only way to beat Nadal, beat him at his own game

[flyer]

This is a post on another thread and I liked it and would like to see people's reactions and opinions...

Originally Posted by flyer

Everyone always says that he needs to "be aggressive," "serve and volley," "go for his shot," etc, w/e i greatly disagree...

hes been going with the aggressive game plan the last like 10 times hes played Nadal on clay and it still hasn't worked, it may work for a short period of time but over the course of a match the strategy is ineffective because Nadal uses that aggression against you, he frustrates you into going for too much and committing errors, he hits ridiculous winners from defensive positions, and puts balls at your feet when at net so the volley is all but impossible....being aggressive is not the answer, as has been proved

I'm alone on this but I think the only way to beat Nadal on clay is to out-Nadal Nadal, that means hunkering down and getting dirty, make a lot of balls and concentrate on defense, make Nadal hit that extra shot, stay in points and force Nadal to commit errors, be ready to play long hard points and be ready to grind for five hours and five sets, know your enemy and beat him at his own game, break him down physically, Federer has said he is in better shape than Nadal so prove it, prove you can grind him into submission...out-Nadal Nadal, its the only way

i know it sounds crazy and i know im alone on this but its like every player goes out there aggressive and every player gets beat, so being aggressive has an about 0% chance of working

clay is about patients, not reckless abandon

[edberg505]

Originally Posted by flyer

This is a post on another thread and I liked it and would like to see people's reactions and opinions...

I think there is a guy that does this and his name is called Ferrer, look what happens to him on clay.

[ACE of Hearts]

I dont know, i think he needs to be aggresive.Last year he was 1 out of 17 on break points.I always have said that he needs to get his first serves in and serve outwide.He needs to open up the court more.

[Mick]

yeah but it's tough to out Nadal when Nadal keeps on hitting high topspin balls to Federer's backhand.

[pow]

I think the problem with trying to "out-Nadal" Nadal is that he is Nadal and he is the best at doing what he does. His defense game is very offensive on clay because of those heavy high bouncing balls.

[ACE of Hearts]

Fed's hiring of Higueras is puzzling.I wonder what his gameplan to Fed will be.

[flyer]

Your right guys he will probably still lose, but he will certainly lose if he sticks to the same "be agressive" game plan, clay is not about aggression, its about patients and the more agressive you are the more you play right into Nadal's hands, he uses agression against you...

[my_forehand]

If you're waiting for Nadal to hit the net, you haveta install a volleyball net.

[ACE of Hearts]

Nadal leaves alot of short balls, Fed needs to punish him when he does that.People have said that he should use the slice but he doesnt use it as much.

[127mph]

he (federer) just needs to serve lights out. i mean really hard struck serves that are heavy and jam nadal up. and step into nadals serves especially the second serves he spins in. and keep the rallies short and dictate them. hard to do none the less. vamos federer

[ACE of Hearts]

I would like to see cooler weather like Hamburg.That makes the ball heavier.The last 2 years have been hot.

[Mick]

I think the only way to beat Nadal on clay is to out-Nadal Nadal, that means hunkering down and getting dirty, make a lot of balls and concentrate on defense, make Nadal hit that extra shot, stay in points and force Nadal to commit errors, be ready to play long hard points and be ready to grind for five hours and five sets, know your enemy and beat him at his own game, break him down physically, Federer has said he is in better shape than Nadal so prove it, prove you can grind him into submission...out-Nadal Nadal, its the only way

Nadal said he didn't think that he could make mistakes today and he was very dominant on the court.

This contradicts with what you wrote above.

(nadal - djokovic)

"The level of the two first sets was very good today. Almost perfect," Nadal said. So I'm happy about how I played today. It was my best match at Roland Garros. I was very dominant on the court. I could throw the ball anywhere I wanted. I was dominating both on my forehand and backhand, and I didn't have to think that I could make mistakes. That was key."

[flyer]

Originally Posted by Mick

Nadal said he didn't think that he could make mistakes today and he was very dominant on the court.

This contradicts with what you wrote above.

(nadal - djokovic)

"The level of the two first sets was very good today. Almost perfect," Nadal said. So I'm happy about how I played today. It was my best match at Roland Garros. I was very dominant on the court. I could throw the ball anywhere I wanted. I was dominating both on my forehand and backhand, and I didn't have to think that I could make mistakes. That was key."

Well if Nadal plays "Almost perfect," it doesn't matter what Federer's strategy is he will not win, he needs Nadal to have a bad day if he wants any chance....

with that said Djokovic wasn't concentrating on defense and making him hit that extra shot, he was trying to play agressive and dictate play, which plays right into Nadals hands, so I don't see any contradiction, if anything this proves my points that agressive play (against Nadal) only helps Nadal in the end

[edberg505]

Originally Posted by flyer

Your right guys he will probably still lose, but he will certainly lose if he sticks to the same "be agressive" game plan, clay is not about aggression, its about patients and the more agressive you are the more you play right into Nadal's hands, he uses agression against you...

That's not true. If you try to play safe, Nadal will just hit you off the court. But if Federer is the aggressor and his shots are on well then I sure pitty the guy on the other side of the net even if his name is Nadal.

[pow]

Originally Posted by edberg505

That's not true. If you try to play safe, Nadal will just hit you off the court. But if Federer is the aggressor and his shots are on well then I sure pitty the guy on the other side of the net even if his name is Nadal.

good point, if you play defensive against Nadal on any surface he will start hitting the short angled cross court forehands out wide that throw the other player way off the court where they cannot reach the shot or returns at the expense of being way out of position.

[flyer]

Originally Posted by edberg505

That's not true. If you try to play safe, Nadal will just hit you off the court. But if Federer is the aggressor and his shots are on well then I sure pitty the guy on the other side of the net even if his name is Nadal.

You can pitty Nadal all you want but the fact is that Nadal has used Federer's aggression (and your pitty that apparently arises from it) to 3 FO titles, so I certainly don't pitty Nadal if Federer just sticks to the same game plan and hopes this time will somehow be different....

all im saying is the aggression game plan has not worked and is completely against the rationality of clay court tennis, so the rational thing to do would be to try something new and play clay court tennis, how does that not make sense?.....seems like a no brainer to me

[Mick]

the contradiction is you said to beat you have to out-Nadal by concentrating on defense.

But Nadal said he "was very dominant on the court," thus he was not playing a defensive game.

[flyer]

Originally Posted by Mick

the contradiction is you said to beat you have to out-Nadal by concentrating on defense.

But Nadal said he "was very dominant on the court," thus he was not playing a defensive game.

good points, Nadal is very agressive at times, but his game is still based on his defense, he gets into positions were he can comfortably dictate play gradually throughout a point and uses defense and his starting point to do so, so defense is what allows him to be agressive

[lonestar]

I think the key to make Nadal feel at least a bit uncomfortable is to force him to come to the net more. Though he improved his netplay too, I consider it still his biggest "weakness". You could see that in the 3rd set yesterday against Joker. You won't win matches by letting this guy run left and right behind the baseline. He's so comfortable and strong there. It's what he loves to do and what he does best.

So if I were Federer I would short slice much much more, especially those high bouncing top spin balls going to his backhand although the slice isn't the most effective stroke on clay. Sure, Nadal will punish some of them once in a while, but at least he would have something new to think about and would be forced to leave his comfort zone.

[carlos djackal]

I Agree That Clay Is Advantageous For Players Who Have The Patience To Slug It Out But In Nadal-federer Case I Doubt If It Will Work For Fed, I've Seen Nadal Is More Patient Than Fed And I Don't Think Fed Can Outslug Nadal On Clay, To Beat Nadal Fed Should Bring His Serve To Top Level And His Backhand Should Land At The Baseline Otherwise Nadal Would Feast On It......s&v On The 1st Serve......