coming forward instead of pulling back

[Quasar]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

I think you are probably a fine tennis player. Otherwise, you wouldn't post a certain racquet and string used in your signature section. Did you read my post above? Are you okay with that?

He will never hit that K90 solidly wit a sit and lift until he starts moving forward!!!!!

[bhupaes]

Originally Posted by EricW

It was mostly a good discussion, but I think we could cut down on the worthlessness next time around. Although we never came to an agreement, I think we all learned a lot from this discussion.

Hey guys, why don't you get on the thread I started on shot quality and shoot me down (with friendly fire, mind you)! The two things I mention there made a huge difference to me. If you can add your insight, it'll be great. Physics is welcome, although it's been many years since I've had to solve a differential equation involving mass, time, and distance...

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Quasar

He will never hit that K90 solidly wit a sit and lift until he starts moving forward!!!!!

Probably not! I know I can't with my Volkl Tour 10 '93! lol

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by EricW

You have no idea what any of our levels are, bhupaes.

in your earlier posts , u said you are a 4.0-4.5

and never played a tournament.

why dont u post a video how you hit your forehand?

come forward or you will end up like boredo. cant hit a winner for his life.

[EricW]

Pushing_wins,

I've been on this forum for 2 years. I've been playing tennis for 2.5 years. I'm sure there was a time I was posting on this forum that I hadn't played a tournament and would have described myself as 4.0-4.5. I'll post a video of my forehand at some point soon if you really want.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by EricW

Pushing_wins,

I've been on this forum for 2 years. I've been playing tennis for 2.5 years. I'm sure there was a time I was posting on this forum that I hadn't played a tournament and would have described myself as 4.0-4.5. I'll post a video of my forehand at some point soon if you really want.

ericw
great, please do.

how good are u now?

[pushing_wins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqmejmw-lu4

hips move forward so slightly

closed stance doesnt block hip rotation

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by EricW

It was mostly a good discussion, but I think we could cut down on the worthlessness next time around. Although we never came to an agreement, I think we all learned a lot from this discussion.

Yes, good discussion. Whatever was worthless to you was worth something to me and vice versa. We just simply disagreed as to how an open stance forehand should be hit. I dont disagree with you, but I also am not going to limit my understanding of the stroke to just angular momentum. If you want to, that is fine with me.

I just think there is more happening in a tennis stroke besides angular momentum in its strictest sense and if I was looking at a player from above down towards his head, I envision something like what is shown below. However, I can also see it going back and described as you have said - up.



Anyway, I am out of here Good luck.

[5263]

Originally Posted by EricW

I have no idea why you and some others continue to press that. Not only can we not control 1/4 of an inch of CM movement, but P=MV does obviously address distance in our discussion. If you move 1/4 of an inch forward during the motion, the velocity of your movement will be much less than if you move a foot during the motion. Not only that, but the difference in swing path steepness is directly related to the forward movement's distance. The flatter swing path resulting in forward movement is the biggest factor in the increased pace a player will experience when adding forward movement.

Forward CM movement = added racquet-head speed, less arc curvature, and a flatter swing path
(The amount of added racquet-head speed depends on the velocity of the movement and the difference in swing path and arc curvature depend on the distance of the movement.)

Do you understand that the only way forward movement can add to pace is a flatter swing path and added racquet-head speed? A small amount of forward movement (1/4 inch, an inch, or a few inches) wouldn't create a noticeable alteration in the swing path. Therefore, the only factor left is added racquet-head speed. Do you think a few inches of CM movement could result in an 8-9 mph increase in racquet-head speed? That would mean you're moving a few inches and only a few inches at 8-9 mph or more depending on contact point (how and why would you stop this momentum from carrying you more than a few inches?). (And if you are hitting a forehand in the air with this kind of forward speed, you will travel a hell of a lot more than a few inches forward.)

Do you believe there's some mystical power you can tap into via small amounts of forward movement? The reason you can generate a lot more pace when you add a decent amount of forward movement is clear: although the added racquet-head speed from the forward movement is small, your shot will be flatter. A flatter ball + a few extra mph on your racquet-head speed = a noticeable pace increase.

I continue to base my explanations on my knowledge of physics, whereas you continue to base your explanations on complete guesses: "Any movement can be enough. So a Quarter inch @ the right timing and right speed means the same as 5 feet or could even mean much more." <-- Where the hell did you get this? Did you make it up? If not, prove why you believe this.

You continue to make an argument that a small amount of linear momentum can go a long way, but obviously it can't. If the linear momentum itself is small, the added racquet-head speed will be equally as small. I think what you mean to say is that a small amount of forward movement can result in a large amount of forward linear momentum or forward velocity (in this discussion, added linear momentum and added velocity are exactly the same thing because mass is constant). This is also illogical because the velocity of your forward movement determines the amount of added racquet-head speed. With your logic, a player would need to move those few inches at a very high speed (and exert an external force in order to stop the momentum from carrying them more than those few inches) to experience a noticeable increase in racquet-head speed/pace and spin. This is unrealistic. How would you time it and how would you stop the extra movement? Plus, it wouldn't work when hitting a sit/lift forehand in the air. The momentum would carry you a whole lot more than a few inches. So does this theory of yours only hold true when the players feet are on the ground at contact?

Linear momentum is simply a measurement of the tendency of a moving object to continue moving at the same speed and in the same direction.

Can you time an inch worth of movement to occur right before, during and after contact at a speed of 8mph, and then stop any further movement via an external force? (What if you're airborne?)

Of course you must be able to time it to hit a ball effectively. It's one of the big reasons that some people swing harder, but get less mph.

I don't suppose it would help for me to reference the physics phd who is also a tennis certified instructor who shared with me about the formula for Momentum and how distance is not part of the equation? Remember, I didn't say YOU could use a 1/4 inch, I said the formula only accounts for speed, not distance. So there is no insignificant distance, only insignificant speed.

[5263]

If you move 1/4 of an inch forward during the motion, the velocity of your movement will be much less than if you move a foot during the motion.

Quote above is absolutely incorrect and not based on anything but an armchair opinion.

[EricW]

In the context of an airbourne sit & lift forehand + all else equal, it is indeed accurate.

Originally Posted by EricW

With your logic, a player would need to move those few inches at a very high speed (and exert an external force in order to stop the momentum from carrying them more than those few inches) to experience a noticeable increase in racquet-head speed/pace and spin. This is unrealistic.

Unrealistic doesn't mean impossible. It simply means it's unrealistic in this context.

Originally Posted by EricW

Plus, it wouldn't work when hitting a sit/lift forehand in the air.

P = mv (Linear momentum/P = measurement of the tendency of an object moving in a direction to continue moving at the same speed in the same direction.)

Mass is constant, so in the context of an airbourne sit/lift forehand: The greater the velocity of your forward movement, the greater the momentum and therefore the greater the distance of travel.

--

Do you think you can add a few inches and only a few inches of forward CM movement to a forehand, at a speed that would make it worth the addition?

[pushing_wins]

ericw

how often do u play?

[pushing_wins]

ericw

when is that forehand going to be ready?

[pushing_wins]

ericw

talk is cheap

lets see how you play please