The TT Football Club

[crosscourt]

They are like us in that their back four get isolated. Johnson, Terry and Cole in particular struggle positionally and that is one of the reaosns we defend so deep. Cole used to be able to compensate for lack of positional awareness with a good turn of foot but that is no longer the case. Johnson still can to some extent. For Terry being out of position in open play is just the way he plays.

[crosscourt]

If I was Mourinho I would sell Benzema out of solidarity with Blanc. What a waste of space. I thought France were awful last night. They remind me a lot of Chelsea in recent years. Some good athletes who can do good things if they put their minds to it but petulant and of course no Drogba to save them time after time. Like Chelsea they dont seem to have the will or the ability to defend their midfield. So Spain march on.

I hgave been struck this tournament by how important Casillas, Sergio Ramos and Xabi Alonso are to Spain. They give them class. Players like Silva, Xavi and Navas dash around like angry dwarfs insisting on the supremacy of their techinique and moaning when the oppo dont roll over. Iniesta is much better than that, just a brilliant player, but even he has a sort of petulance about him. The Madrid contingent give the rest of the side a different perspective. Fabregas too adds a sort of clarity of thought that is impressive.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

If I was Mourinho I would sell Benzema out of solidarity with Blanc. What a waste of space. I thought France were awful last night. They remind me a lot of Chelsea in recent years. Some good athletes who can do good things if they put their minds to it but petulant and of course no Drogba to save them time after time. Like Chelsea they dont seem to have the will or the ability to defend their midfield. So Spain march on.

I hgave been struck this tournament by how important Casillas, Sergio Ramos and Xabi Alonso are to Spain. They give them class. Players like Silva, Xavi and Navas dash around like angry dwarfs insisting on the supremacy of their techinique and moaning when the oppo dont roll over. Iniesta is much better than that, just a brilliant player, but even he has a sort of petulance about him. The Madrid contingent give the rest of the side a different perspective. Fabregas too adds a sort of clarity of thought that is impressive.

I wouldn't say Chelsea are lacking the "will" to defend the midfield, it's tough to question the desire of the likes of Essien, Lampard, Ramires etc.. The ability to win control against Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets is always going to be missing though, yeah. They make up for it in different ways, the tackling, covering for everyone else on the field if they're out of position, the fast break etc.. The first 2 against Barcelona came from the midfield and they were high class goals.

Those are the things that get noticed I suppose, but the bread and butter of a game where you have to win and keep the ball, we do struggle. That's why we really need a player who can do that, even if it's just one to start things off in that area of the pitch. You can buy the likes of Hazard, Hulk, Marin, de Bruyne and go after Falcao etc.. If the engine room in midfield doesn't have a puppet master in there doing some tidy work and linking everything together, the team can never reach it's full potential and it looks disjointed more often than not. The defence are under constant pressure, the forwards and dangerous players don't get the ball in the right area for them to do what they do best etc.. It's a bit worrying the first pre season games are less than a month away and no player like that has even been linked with the club yet.

[crosscourt]

I am really talking about the games I see Chelsea play live. Match after match they let the opposition run or pass through them in midfield. Essien was a brilliant defensive midfielder but is no longer. Lampard never was. Who knows what Ramires is supposed to do. But as I said they do have good athletes who can work hard and when they do and with a lot of luck, as against Barcelona, can do well.

The players you mention -- Hazard etc -- strike me as more of the same. Mercurial, capable of being very good or absent without leave. Maybe Di Matteo can change the culture of the team. Blanc didnt manage it for France.

[PED]

Originally Posted by Feña14

I think Pirlo will give Parker and Gerrard a lesson tomorrow. He's so good to watch when he's picking teams apart, later on could be one of those times.

If the game ends up being higher tempo, I wonder how he will fare with less time on the ball. He's not exactly young anymore. At least there is only one of him as opposed to Spain with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, etc.

I Thought Silva caused a lot of problems on the French left with Clichy. Clichy terrifies me from a defensive standpoint; Silva must enjoy torching him on a daily basis at Man City training.

[Ross K]

Re Spurs/new manger, etc, more than a few whispers that the real reason for the delay confirming a new manager is actually because we may be about to be taken over by new investors/company, etc. Hope they have a few quid. Also hope they aren't completely unsavory characters.

[Dave M]

You coud get lucky and become an arabian oil money plaything or, really lucky and be bought by some icelandic geezers with no actual money!
Speaking of no money, any thoughts on Rangers, I can not understand how they can not be demoted, they keep telling us they are a new team so why shouldnt they start at the bottom of the pyramid?

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

I am really talking about the games I see Chelsea play live. Match after match they let the opposition run or pass through them in midfield. Essien was a brilliant defensive midfielder but is no longer. Lampard never was. Who knows what Ramires is supposed to do. But as I said they do have good athletes who can work hard and when they do and with a lot of luck, as against Barcelona, can do well.

The players you mention -- Hazard etc -- strike me as more of the same. Mercurial, capable of being very good or absent without leave. Maybe Di Matteo can change the culture of the team. Blanc didnt manage it for France.

Essien certainly isn't what he was, i'd of sold him this summer whilst he still had value. I'd of said use the money and go for M'Vila but his attitude isn't the best, they both have the strength, but you get more passing from M'Vila. Ramires is there for his tackling and pace, nobody can keep up with him so he's very useful breaking out. He seems to play better when he's out wide on the right, it's where he played for Brazil when he first broke into the team 3 years ago and he was at home there.

Hazard certainly is mecurial, as you say. I think we do need a player like that though, someone like Zola who is a special player. One criticism of us is how predictable we are and we can't break teams down, we need what he can bring. As I say though, without the right midfield behind him he won't shine as much as he is capable of.

Originally Posted by PED

If the game ends up being higher tempo, I wonder how he will fare with less time on the ball. He's not exactly young anymore. At least there is only one of him as opposed to Spain with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, etc.

I Thought Silva caused a lot of problems on the French left with Clichy. Clichy terrifies me from a defensive standpoint; Silva must enjoy torching him on a daily basis at Man City training.

I think Pirlo will be fine He never had pace, he started out as an attacking midfielder and although he was talented, he didn't really live up to it. When Ancelotti converted him into a sitting playmaker, he's become one of the greats in that position of his era. He's just a class act who knows his craft.

Maybe he won't turn up today, but i'm thinking he probably will.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by Feña14

Essien certainly isn't what he was, i'd of sold him this summer whilst he still had value. I'd of said use the money and go for M'Vila but his attitude isn't the best, they both have the strength, but you get more passing from M'Vila. Ramires is there for his tackling and pace, nobody can keep up with him so he's very useful breaking out. He seems to play better when he's out wide on the right, it's where he played for Brazil when he first broke into the team 3 years ago and he was at home there.

Hazard certainly is mecurial, as you say. I think we do need a player like that though, someone like Zola who is a special player. One criticism of us is how predictable we are and we can't break teams down, we need what he can bring. As I say though, without the right midfield behind him he won't shine as much as he is capable of.



I think Pirlo will be fine He never had pace, he started out as an attacking midfielder and although he was talented, he didn't really live up to it. When Ancelotti converted him into a sitting playmaker, he's become one of the greats in that position of his era. He's just a class act who knows his craft.

Maybe he won't turn up today, but i'm thinking he probably will.

You thought right.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

You thought right.

And the rest of them!
Montolivo was great in the first half, he's always had the talent but he flatters to deceive whenever I see him. Marchisio does what he has done for the last 2-3 years. They have quite a nice team, Italy. Prandelli has done a great job of setting them up in different ways against each team they've played so far, and his team selections have worked out well.

[Dave M]

I'm just glad we got rid of that Diamante bloke, i knew in a rubbish hammers side when he was scoring and making goals he wasn't good enough for us, thank kgod we sold him so we could affoard Mcarthy from Blackburn, dodged a bullet getting rid of him.
Anyone know how badly rooney has to play before one is allowed to mention it?

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Dave M

I'm just glad we got rid of that Diamante bloke, i knew in a rubbish hammers side when he was scoring and making goals he wasn't good enough for us, thank kgod we sold him so we could affoard Mcarthy from Blackburn, dodged a bullet getting rid of him.
Anyone know how badly rooney has to play before one is allowed to mention it?

Haha, I was surprised you did aswell. I don't think you got very much for him either? Bit of a strange one.

I had him in my fantasy team for awhile, as you say he got alot of assists and his penalties, free kicks and goals from distance were good to watch.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by Feña14

Haha, I was surprised you did aswell. I don't think you got very much for him either? Bit of a strange one.

I had him in my fantasy team for awhile, as you say he got alot of assists and his penalties, free kicks and goals from distance were good to watch.

Actually one of the frst penalty takes i haven't minded watching since the mighty left foot of Dicks retired, having been brought up on videos of old hammers plaers like Tonka taking pens i have always felt that it should be hit hard enough that should keeper get to it he'll go into the goal too. Noble is getting there now!
I think he eft for a few hundred grand, which in these days is basically nothing, as you say odd really.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by Dave M

I'm just glad we got rid of that Diamante bloke, i knew in a rubbish hammers side when he was scoring and making goals he wasn't good enough for us, thank kgod we sold him so we could affoard Mcarthy from Blackburn, dodged a bullet getting rid of him.
Anyone know how badly rooney has to play before one is allowed to mention it?

He was alarmingly poor from his first game. Huffing and puffing, poor touch, crap at heading, bla bla bla. Everything's not his fault, but it's mighty frustrating how he can play so well at Utd, but for the 2nd or 3rd England tournament, he's been pretty wreteched.

[SempreSami]

TBF since he's been an established England player, Rooney's not gone in to a major tournament finals as prepared as he'd like to be.

2006 - Rushed back from a broken foot.
2008 - Well, we forgot to qualify for that 'un.
2010 - Had a blistering season, but his goalscoring form had dried up following an ankle injury against Bayern.
2012 - Got himself suspended for the first two games like a numpty.

[PED]

Milner and Young and Welbeck. Just not good enough, Carroll and Walcott should have started.

Rooney was dreadful.

Ross mentioned something about cole last week and I agree, he just doesn't look like himself, not sure if it's Roy's tactical discipline holding him back or subpar form but he's much brighter when playing for chels.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by PED

Milner and Young and Welbeck. Just not good enough, Carroll and Walcott should have started.

Rooney was dreadful.

Ross mentioned something about cole last week and I agree, he just doesn't look like himself, not sure if it's Roy's tactical discipline holding him back or subpar form but he's much brighter when playing for chels.

Yeah his form for Chelsea was very good, I can't imagine a few weeks later it would of dropped off too dramatically.

Defensively he's been good all tournament, going forward he hasn't done too much. Young played infront of him and didn't have a good Euro's, which probably played a part in that to some degree. That and he had to do alot of defending

[crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Ross K

He was alarmingly poor from his first game. Huffing and puffing, poor touch, crap at heading, bla bla bla. Everything's not his fault, but it's mighty frustrating how he can play so well at Utd, but for the 2nd or 3rd England tournament, he's been pretty wreteched.

He looks out of sorts for England. I don't think the formation helps that much. Hodgson plays a more rigid version of the set-up that Cappello was criticised for and it is typical that Hodgson isn't criticised for it in the way that Cappello was. England are now described as "better organized" which I suppose is a way of saying "even less able to attack". Nonetheless Rooney doesnt play well and while he is England's best player he is not essential to the team in the way that some of our best players have been in the past -- Beckham for example.

But look on the bright side. Terry and Cole have almost certainly played their last games for England. For all that they and Lescott defended heroically last night that puts them in the same class as Sweden's defenders and nothing more.

It is time to look to new and younger players who want to play international football and more importantly want to adapt to its demands. We have had enough of the Premiership tanks who blame everyone else for their inability to compete at this level.

[Ross K]

^^^

Further to me wanting to see Rooney off at half-time (if not dropped from the actual start), the one I was disappointed not to see last night was Oxlade-Chamberlain. Somebody with his sparkiness and ability to go past players was sorely needed. That said, he may have gone the way of Walcott anyhow, ie, got submerged by what was going on around him and lacking service.

Looking forward, seems to me quite a few should be gone by the next tornie due to age etc (maybe Gerrard, Terry, Parker), and a few whose form seemed debatable could be under threat (like Young, Milner.) And also perhaps the overly defensive - 'soak it all up like a sponge and attack on the break'-style need to be reveiwed and tweaked (some would argue tweaked in a major way).

The killer qsn then is: who are these quality replacements? Where are they? Do they exist even (I know most here think we simply don't have such players)?

Even if it's a struggle and we come up short, seems we need to prioritize locating and developing such young quality... I don't know if they are the answer but players like Wilshire, Walker, Jones, Rodwell, McEachran and the like must be be given serious consideration and prioritization.

BTW, Fena, what the heck happened to McEachran? I thought he was displaying some real promise a year or two back...

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

But look on the bright side. Terry and Cole have almost certainly played their last games for England. For all that they and Lescott defended heroically last night that puts them in the same class as Sweden's defenders and nothing more.

I think getting rid of the likes of Gerrard, Terry, Cole and the more senior players who won't be at the World Cup is one of the ways you could go. The defence this tournament has been fantastic though really, where would we of been without them? We could easily of lost to Ukraine, they had that much of the ball. We could of lost last night 3-0 without Johnson, Lescott and Terry. France scored where Gerrard didn't get out in time, then 2 against Sweden where we had a 5 minute lapse. Apart from that we didn't concede.

New players certainly do need to start coming in, but if they're playing the same way the 4 midfielders and the forwards have at this tournament, the defence is going to take one hell of a battering again. I'd prefer the experienced heads who really know what they're doing back there than throwing in the likes of Jones and Smalling and having them get hammered.

Cahill would probably of started if it wasn't for the broken jaw. He's only 26 and is starting to carve out a decent reputation, he's someone who has to come in i'd of thought. Walker was also missing through injury, surely he would of been first choice. A defence of Walker, Terry, Cahill and Cole is the right mix for me personally. You get 2 experienced heads and 2 younger players just starting their England careers. Take out all the experience and it would be a mess.

Originally Posted by Ross K

BTW, Fena, what the heck happened to McEachran? I thought he was displaying some real promise a year or two back...

Ancelotti played him a little bit, Villas-Boas prefered Romeu so he got sent out on loan to Swansea. Chelsea had an agreement with Rodgers that he would get to play a bit of football there, the manager used to be at Chelsea and he knew the kid so it sounded like a good move for everyone. Unfortunately he didn't get to play, it was pretty poor from Swansea as alot of teams inquired about him where he would of got playing time to improve. Why send youngsters away from the club for 6 months to sit on someone elses bench? Bolton wanted him too and looking back that probably would of been a better move, Coyle looked after Sturridge and helped him improve, i'm sure he could of done the same.

It's certainly hurt his development, but it's also hurt the managers reputation in some ways. The next young, talented player who is looking to cut his teeth and go out on loan, will he want to do it at a club where Rodgers is at? Probably not.