The TT Football Club

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by NickC

I think it's a matter of the FA just wanting to get their boogeyman, a.k.a Terry. They made a show out of it because it seems to me that they wanted to go out and shout in the streets "hey, look at us! we got our man! look at how effective we are!" instead of actually making real progress on the issue. If the FA really wanted to send a message, they would have sentenced him on day 1 and let that be the end of it. This is a purely political move and JT just happened to be in the middle of it. Here in America we call these kinds of actions "Grand-Standing", which means that an entity, group, or person does or says something purely to win political brownie points or to make a hollow point which makes them look good and the other guy bad.

Whilst I agree with you largely, nothing takes away from the fact that what Terry said was totally unacceptable in 2012, and action has to be taken against such repellent, offensive, moronic, repugnant behaviour.

[NickC]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Whilst I agree with you largely, nothing takes away from the fact that what Terry said was totally unacceptable in 2012, and action has to be taken against such repellent, offensive, moronic, repugnant behaviour.

Does anyone know EXACTLY what Terry said, or are we just going off Ferdinand's testimony?

And I agree, racism and racist behavior shouldn't be accepted in any circumstance, but it does happen and more often than not (atleast in my country) it's often blacks abusing whites, but because they're black they get a free pass to act and speak as they please.

Which all begs the question, why is he even considered black? I've seen many a person with MUCH darker skin who isn't considered black. Obama has darker skin than he does and he's only half black. I'm not trying to bring race into this, but it's like when one of my black friends calls me the N word, I choose to not be offended because I'm not black, even though I have family who are African and family who are African-American.

And when people insult me and resort to low-blow tactics, I choose to be the bigger person by not stooping to their level, and I choose to not be a snitch either.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Whilst I agree with you largely, nothing takes away from the fact that what Terry said was totally unacceptable in 2012, and action has to be taken against such repellent, offensive, moronic, repugnant behaviour.

And that's where there is a problem. You're making out that what Ferdinand said is fact, even though after the game he was shaking hands and laughing with Terry because he hadn't heard anything. It was only when he heard that others might of read Terry's lips that he started to feel hard done by.

It's not right that someone can be cleared by a court of law, but found guilty by someone like the FA who are known to have it in for Terry and were always going to find im guilty, whatever the evidence. An independent court of law didn't convict him, but a pannel appointed by a somewhat corrupt organisation finding him guilty means he is? Yeah, not quite.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by Feña14

Ivanovic or Torres? Yeah, i'd probably take Ivanovic if i'm honest

He also said Oscar dived and went into stupid comments about him being from Brazil, which he should of got in trouble for really. The defender actually got his arm across Oscar and it probably was a penalty, although hard for the referee to see.

I remember the Gerrard one, don't care much for him after that FA cup final in '06, they should probably ban him for 10 games actually, to make a statement as it were.
Ivanovic didn't look bad up front, just for a decent sized bloke seems a bit wiling to go to ground, I am struggling to think of another way to get it out of the game TBH, can't expect the ref to get them all right so maybe video (after the game, an in match review would prob btake too long) is the only way. Did he really say that about Oscar?The anti diving thing is the first thing i think i've agreed with him on, though he is above Ken bates, Neil Warnock and Dave Whealan on my fave footy people list!

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by Feña14

And that's where there is a problem. You're making out that what Ferdinand said is fact, even though after the game he was shaking hands and laughing with Terry because he hadn't heard anything. It was only when he heard that others might of read Terry's lips that he started to feel hard done by.

It's not right that someone can be cleared by a court of law, but found guilty by someone like the FA who are known to have it in for Terry and were always going to find im guilty, whatever the evidence. An independent court of law didn't convict him, but a pannel appointed by a somewhat corrupt organisation finding him guilty means he is? Yeah, not quite.

To the bold bits, the FA charge it seems only requires you to say the things, which Terry said he did (I think I read somewhere). The video footage of Terry that they lip read, I think Ashley cole walked infront of him (across the camera vision i mean) when was that , after Ferdinand had been told what he'd said?IF so who is supposed to of told him and why was he repeating it?

[NickC]

On a totally unrelated note it seems that Steve Keane has resigned at Blackburn. Can't say I'm not surprised.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Dave M

I remember the Gerrard one, don't care much for him after that FA cup final in '06, they should probably ban him for 10 games actually, to make a statement as it were.
Ivanovic didn't look bad up front, just for a decent sized bloke seems a bit wiling to go to ground, I am struggling to think of another way to get it out of the game TBH, can't expect the ref to get them all right so maybe video (after the game, an in match review would prob btake too long) is the only way. Did he really say that about Oscar?The anti diving thing is the first thing i think i've agreed with him on, though he is above Ken bates, Neil Warnock and Dave Whealan on my fave footy people list!

Haha, ban Gerrard for life I say

He did talk about Oscar being from Brazil when he talked about him diving. With how sensitive everyone is at the moment and people being on their best behaviour, generalisations and stereotyping a kid starting his first game in the League isn't a good move. Using derogatory remarks about someones race or Nationality are equally bad in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Dave M

To the bold bits, the FA charge it seems only requires you to say the things, which Terry said he did (I think I read somewhere). The video footage of Terry that they lip read, I think Ashley cole walked infront of him (across the camera vision i mean) when was that , after Ferdinand had been told what he'd said?IF so who is supposed to of told him and why was he repeating it?

Oh right, so the context means nothing when it comes to the FA? Not really sure how that works! I know it was a fan at the game who reported it to the police, not sure if one of them asked Ferdinand if he heard anything.

[Ross K]

Re Terry I think it boils down to his explanation or his defence of calling Ferdinand a "black ****" as being a sarcastic comment. It has since been argued that this is maybe a form of "unconscious" racism. Any way you want to put it though, it's racism, and can't be tolerated in this day and age... or can it?

I honestly don't have sympathy for JT, because aside from this, which just totally puts the icing on the cake, there's the shagging off his team mate's missus; the way he commandeered that England press conference in the World Cup in S. Africa and decided to install himself as de facto England spokesman/leader, etc; that ridiculous needless kick he handed out in the CL semi against Barca; and so many dumb-arse incidents you lose count.

As a player he is absolutely great, no doubts there whatsoever, but character-wise he does seem to be a little, er... flawed.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by Feña14

Haha, ban Gerrard for life I say

He did talk about Oscar being from Brazil when he talked about him diving. With how sensitive everyone is at the moment and people being on their best behaviour, generalisations and stereotyping a kid starting his first game in the League isn't a good move. Using derogatory remarks about someones race or Nationality are equally bad in my eyes.



Oh right, so the context means nothing when it comes to the FA? Not really sure how that works! I know it was a fan at the game who reported it to the police, not sure if one of them asked Ferdinand if he heard anything.

I think Meags might disagree with the first bit but, yeah if we can get away with it!
I don't think context does matter to the FA charge, but it is their game and their rules. As Ross says good player but as with many who enter this profession and we expect them to be role models, they've spent so long becoming pro footballers their "personal skills" never develop and they are often little more than big children.Sadly plenty of examples litter the game over the last few years JT aside, Woodgate, Richardson, Bowyer, Marlon King have all done things which should of earned them very long bans.

[PED]

Well done Chelsea today. They bossed the middle of the park.

I think we suffered with Diaby being pulled off but Torres was fantastic today and he totally pwned Koscielny for that first goal.

Wished Per had been playing instead of him since he was at fault for both goals.

Interesting that both Carzorla and Hazard were not at their best today but Mata took up the slack and dominated.

Ramsey was poor and I'm counting the days til Wilshire returns. The Ox is up to it at the moment to play in the middle.

[NickC]

LOL Mata killed Arsenal. I thought Torres had a good game as well.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Re Terry I think it boils down to his explanation or his defence of calling Ferdinand a "black ****" as being a sarcastic comment. It has since been argued that this is maybe a form of "unconscious" racism. Any way you want to put it though, it's racism, and can't be tolerated in this day and age... or can it?

I honestly don't have sympathy for JT, because aside from this, which just totally puts the icing on the cake, there's the shagging off his team mate's missus; the way he commandeered that England press conference in the World Cup in S. Africa and decided to install himself as de facto England spokesman/leader, etc; that ridiculous needless kick he handed out in the CL semi against Barca; and so many dumb-arse incidents you lose count.

As a player he is absolutely great, no doubts there whatsoever, but character-wise he does seem to be a little, er... flawed.

Unconcious racism? His defence in court was that he used them in a denial. As i've said, if you're in a noisy bar and someone thinks you said something, asks you if you did, you deny it.. but that doesn't matter, you're still a racist? Not sure how that one works.

As for the other things, Bridge is the only one who says Terry slept with his partner. Both of them still deny it to this day, nobody knows for sure. The World Cup, England had looked like they lacked leadership in a horrible 0-0 draw with Algeria. Gerrard was so poor as captain in the World Cup. Terry knew something had to be done to try and get the team to spark something, he did what was needed.

We saw today with Arsenal how lack of leadership on the pitch cost them, nobody had the pressence or balls to organise the defence from set pieces and they lost the game. I think it's hilarious he get's stick for standing up and challenging his team to join him in salvaging a World Cup. If he had of sat back and watched it all fall apart he would of got destroyed too.

People don't like him, fair enough. Some of the things they see as facts about him are a little bit strange though really.

Originally Posted by PED

Well done Chelsea today. They bossed the middle of the park.

I think we suffered with Diaby being pulled off but Torres was fantastic today and he totally pwned Koscielny for that first goal.

Wished Per had been playing instead of him since he was at fault for both goals.

Interesting that both Carzorla and Hazard were not at their best today but Mata took up the slack and dominated.

Ramsey was poor and I'm counting the days til Wilshire returns. The Ox is up to it at the moment to play in the middle.

We were actually excellent! I was surprised.

The pressing from the front 4 was like watching Barcelona, the way they kept winning the ball back time and time again. To be able to disrupt one of the best passing teams in the world the way we did was great. I think Oscar was very good again, the way he's stopped Pirlo and Cazorla in only his first few games is a great sign.

Mata was incredible again, I said earlier in the thread how Hazard has been getting all the attention, but Mata has been head and shoulders above him.

Mikel decided to have one of his great games too, if only he could do that 75% of the time, not just the 25% he does at the moment.

[Ross K]

Fena,

I'm sorry but your state of denial over the grotesque manifest personality defects re a certain J. Terry leaves me no option other than to post the following. Please take your Chelsea glasses off just for once and take stock of this gobsmacking inventory... Posted in jest Fena but... come on!

The John Terry controversies – a complete list

By gareth mcknight on February 6th, 2012

John Terry on his day is one of the best central defenders in the Premier League, and certainly an important player for Chelsea and England.

However, the 31-year-old is in danger of missing out on Euro 2012, after being stripped of his nation’s captaincy due to the ongoing allegations of racism against the Barking-born man. This, for sure, is not the first controversy to blight Terry’s career, as the following rap sheet shows.

Fined two weeks wages for drunkenly mocking American tourists in Heathrow Airport in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of 9/11.
Charged with assault and affray after a confrontation with a nightclub bouncer in January 2002, Terry was suspended from England duty and subsequently missed out on the 2002 World Cup. He was later cleared of wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, unlawful wounding, possessing a bottle as an offensive weapon and affray.
In February 2002 Terry was caught on CCTV urinating into a beer glass and dropping it on the floor of an Essex nightclub.
Fined £60 for parking his Bentley in a disabled bay.
In 2004, Terry was reported to have gambled up to £40,000 a week on horse and dog racing with Wayne Bridge and Scott Parker.
Sent off against Tottenham in November 2006 at White Hart Lane, and accused of racially abusing Ledley King. Questioned the integrity of referee Graham Poll, and was later fined £10,000 for inappropriate conduct.
Before marrying Toni Poole in 2007, admitted to cheating on his partner up to eight times. Jenny Barker, 17, claims that Terry cheated on Poole with her in a public car park.
Investigated by Chelsea and the FA for reportedly accepting a £10,000 bribe to show a reporter around the London club’s training ground without permission in 2009.
In 2009 the centre back’s father Ted Terry was filmed allegedly selling cocaine to an undercover reporter, months after his mother, Sue, and mother-in-law had been cautioned for shoplifting.
In January 2010 Terry was alleged to have had a four-month affair with Wayne Bridge’s girlfriend Vanessa Perroncel. Bridge was deemed as one of Terry’s best friends, and Perroncel was the mother of the left back’s child. Fabio Capello stripped Terry of the England captaincy due to the scandal, handing it to Rio Ferdinand.
Accused of racially abusing QPR defender Anton Ferdinand in a 1-0 defeat for Chelsea at Loftus Road in October 2011. Investigated by the FA and police, Terry will stand trial in July 2012. Stripped of his country’s captaincy for the second time.
Terry may well look back at the above list with shame and regret once his playing days are over, as the constant controversies in his life have taken away from his ability on the pitch.

[Breaker]

^^ also he spit on Tevez in Champions League final though wasn't caught.

Anyway brilliant win over Fulham, Barry really made the difference in midfield and kept the ball moving in a way we haven't been doing so far this season. Dortmund apparently had a big win today as well so will be a battle.

[Ross K]

Three-two win away at Utd... oooooooooooh yes!

[SempreSami]

First time Spuds have won at OT in my lifetime. Someone check the temperature in hell!

[SempreSami]

Originally Posted by NickC

On a totally unrelated note it seems that Steve Keane has resigned at Blackburn. Can't say I'm not surprised.

All three parties - Venkys, Kean and the Blackburn supporters - were at fault for what was going on there. Venkys for being clueless about football, Kean stabbing Big Sam in the back and the Blackburn fans for being utter morons. One of them called his resignation 'liberating'. How small minded can you get? It's not like Colonel Gaddafi was in charge.

[Meaghan]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Three-two win away at Utd... oooooooooooh yes!

great win mate, very happy last night.......watched Liverpool run riot and tbh we got the rub of the green for a change, hopefully thats a springboard now for an unbeaten run for the rest of the season

Still making silly mistakes at the back which has cost us in every game this season so far......skyrtel was great last season, he's been a bit dodgy so far, as has Reina.......Sahin tho yesterday was quality!

[NickC]

Originally Posted by SempreSami

All three parties - Venkys, Kean and the Blackburn supporters - were at fault for what was going on there. Venkys for being clueless about football, Kean stabbing Big Sam in the back and the Blackburn fans for being utter morons. One of them called his resignation 'liberating'. How small minded can you get? It's not like Colonel Gaddafi was in charge.

That's the truth. I have no idea why Venkeys bought the club if they don't intend to actually run it efficiently. Kean was in over his head and played awful football, and had them relegated. I don't blame the supporters as much simply because they probably felt like their club was being dragged through the mud and rightly so.

[Dave M]

It is a bit curious isn't it? ^^ One presumes they knew what it costs to run a club when they bought it.

As for the JT saga, hopefully it's now over, can't see Chelsea doing anything more, sadly being on tele and being a solid defender doesn't make them a good person to be looked up to. The case should never have gone on this long and should of carrried more of a fine than what I would imagine must be about a one week pay cheque for JT. Hopefully from now on he'll only appear on the back pages.