How Long to Get to a 5.0?

[SlapShot]

I'll echo a lot of the sentiments here. You may never get to 5.0, but that's not a reason to put in the effort. You do need to hit with other people - a ball machine doesn't shank, doesn't mix up spins, etc.

If you're looking to get better, play with better players. Watch what they do, how they move to the ball, etc. Even if the better player is a "lowly" 4.0, you can most likely learn something from their game.

[goober]

It can be done, but by far the biggest hurdle will be going from 4.5 to a legit 5.0. I have seen very few people who have done that starting how late you did. You have to be totally dedicated for a very long time. You will hit major plateaus at the 4.0 and 4.5 level (if you even get to this level). Health and declining athletic ability with age will definitely factor in.

The 5.0 level is filled with former high level college tennis players, teaching pros and ex real pros. By the time you are in your 40s it will be very difficult to compete at this level in singles. Almost all the 40+ year old players playing at 5.0 were former 5.5-6.0+ players who are slowing down with age.

But as a story of inspiration- one of the head teaching pros at a center in my town, started tennis at age 40. He played on the junior college team and went on to have a pretty high national ranking in his age group.

[Nellie]

I know of a couple of male players who were able to get to 5.0 in about 8 -10 years of heavy playing. In my experiance, you can be a 3.5 player in about 1 year of training and lessons, and a 4.5 in about 5 years. That 4.5 -5.5 is really hard, and per the original post, based upon natural talent and mental strength regardless of how many lessons you take.

I think that you can improve levels quite fast by developing one great shot. For example, I have a friend (a very tall and quick former scholarship volleyball player) who serves easily 130+, and after a couple of years of playing, is a tough 4.5 due to that serve, height, and quickness. His grounds strokes are horrible though, and when he enters a tournement, there are some players who make him look foolish.

Oddly, I know of many women who started playing later in life and easily became open level players in a few years due to their superior athletic skills. They had other athletic backgrounds, like being former soccer or basketball players.

I think you would need to play and practice a lot. Playing is needed for putting your self under pressure and getting used to hitting shots outside you comfort zone. On the other hand, you really cannot improve without practice because, for example, you often will not get enough strokes in a match to improve your forehand and backhand technique.

[nyc]

A coach once told me 5 years to master the strokes, 5 years to master the game....give or take based on talent, and time spent practicing...

Now that's to reach your potential. Who knows if you have a 5.0 potential in you mentally or physically?

The most important thing is that it is a beautiful game and can be played until the end of your days, and enjoyment is key.

[misterchris]

Thanks for the advice. You are right that one of the two things you mention could be the source of downfall. I will either get injured or frustrated; both could cause me to scale back my plans.

I read your blog and its inspirational! You are doing something similar to me, except rather than learning to play well, you have taken your game to the next level and have gone pro. I wish you great success!

I have thought about blogging about my progress as well. I plan to record monthly videos to track my progress.

Two of the courts in my housing association are har-tru (sp?) and the club I am looking to join has a few clay courts. I will start practicing on them as much as possible.

Originally Posted by Moz

Good luck, you already have a plan - which is more than most people will ever have.

Assuming you have the technical and physical talent, there are 2 major obstacles in your path.

1. Health & Fitness: Tennis is a brutal sport on the body particularly as it sounds as though you will be playing on hard courts (get on clay if possible). Listen to your body and get injuries seen to straight away.

If you are 100% serious about this I suggest you see a podiatrist and also a physio who has good tennis experience (maybe get a suggestion from a local college coach) asap. Before you continue I would get a program of preventative exercises together and the physio should be able to check you out for areas of tightness / vulnerability to injury.

2. Your Philosophy: As you already realise progress is not linear and you have to be prepared for the upds and downs. You may lose a stroke for weeks on end, you'll lose to people you don't feel you have any right losing to, you will get fed up. Accept these as part of the challenge, expect them and you'll get through them.

I also think you should start playing matches as soon as possible. You don't want to be a trained circus animal who can't live in the wild.

Keep us posted.

[40lovebaby]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a 5.0 goal. It should take you several years to get there.

I started tennis in my 30's, and have now progressed to a solid 4.5 level, and am knocking on the door to 5.0. I'd like to be a 6.0 player before it's all over with, so we'll see how my body holds up. I am a testament to the fact that it can happen though. I don't know that I'd say everyone can reach 5.0 - I had a lot going for me when starting tennis.

There will be levels and levels to your improvement. You'll find once you start playing competitively, your improvement will be geared towards beating the guys you face, which means once you start to beat them and move up, guys at the next level will handle what you do well, and you'll have to adjust again.

My own improvement was not constant or linear. I would reach a certain level, say 4.0, where I sat for years before making a breakthrough. It's rare that a single shot holds you back - it's normally a number of things that have to come together right before you move up.

As you move up you'll play a wider variety of players who have different strengths. This year I played a guy that aced me 30 times in a 3 set match, followed by a guy that I couldn't hit a winner against because he was so damn fast. You'll face pushers and counterpunchers with subtle differences.

I was a very good athlete to start who was dedicated and played a lot. I am obsessed with the sport, and would play every day if I could.

There will be times before you are a 5.0 where you might burn out a little on what you are excited about now. Change of seasons, learning a new stroke, or buying a new pair of tennis shorts might all be things that will lure you back to full commitment.

Your dedication to your fitness will dictate you making that 5.0 goal as much as your stroke dedication. You'll need both. I don't know of any out of shape 5.0 players that don't have some serious weapon to compensate (110mph serve they can put in the corners).

I'd also say that you should mix in some doubles play as well as singles, so that you take on positive attributes of both types of players, and you will learn a broader range of strokes and truely understand the angles of the court.

Best of luck to you! Your real reward will be the sport itself - it's amazing to improve and to beat players along the way that you once couldn't.

[misterchris]

Thanks, this is good advice. I will keep everyone posted.

Originally Posted by 40lovebaby

I don't think there is anything wrong with a 5.0 goal. It should take you several years to get there.

I started tennis in my 30's, and have now progressed to a solid 4.5 level, and am knocking on the door to 5.0. I'd like to be a 6.0 player before it's all over with, so we'll see how my body holds up. I am a testament to the fact that it can happen though. I don't know that I'd say everyone can reach 5.0 - I had a lot going for me when starting tennis.

There will be levels and levels to your improvement. You'll find once you start playing competitively, your improvement will be geared towards beating the guys you face, which means once you start to beat them and move up, guys at the next level will handle what you do well, and you'll have to adjust again.

My own improvement was not constant or linear. I would reach a certain level, say 4.0, where I sat for years before making a breakthrough. It's rare that a single shot holds you back - it's normally a number of things that have to come together right before you move up.

As you move up you'll play a wider variety of players who have different strengths. This year I played a guy that aced me 30 times in a 3 set match, followed by a guy that I couldn't hit a winner against because he was so damn fast. You'll face pushers and counterpunchers with subtle differences.

I was a very good athlete to start who was dedicated and played a lot. I am obsessed with the sport, and would play every day if I could.

There will be times before you are a 5.0 where you might burn out a little on what you are excited about now. Change of seasons, learning a new stroke, or buying a new pair of tennis shorts might all be things that will lure you back to full commitment.

Your dedication to your fitness will dictate you making that 5.0 goal as much as your stroke dedication. You'll need both. I don't know of any out of shape 5.0 players that don't have some serious weapon to compensate (110mph serve they can put in the corners).

I'd also say that you should mix in some doubles play as well as singles, so that you take on positive attributes of both types of players, and you will learn a broader range of strokes and truely understand the angles of the court.

Best of luck to you! Your real reward will be the sport itself - it's amazing to improve and to beat players along the way that you once couldn't.

[Spokewench]

DID YOU HAVE TO SHOUT SO LOUD?? I think I'm deaf now.

[misterchris]

Originally Posted by raiden031

How do you have 3+ hours a day to spend on tennis as someone in their mid-30s? Are you not married and no kids, have no job, and have a tennis court in your backyard?

That makes it sound pathetic! I dont have a family and im currently between jobs.

Even when i am working I go to the gym and workout every night (running or lifting) and on weekends spend entire days competing in other sports, so this will just be a shift in training for me. I may not be able to keep up 3 hours a day, but 2 hours each evening is realistic. I dont watch TV or any crap like that.


There are 9 tennis courts in my backyard.

[nyc]

sounds cool - keeps us posted on your progress!

[misterchris]

Thanks for the encouragement; you have the same outlook that I do.

Originally Posted by jmverdugo

I say give it a try and have fun while on it. A couple of thoughts:

An adult learn faster than a young kid, he can put more focus on the learning and keep thinking about it all day, he can watch an analyze how others people hit and how they play and can think better on court, and adult can learn from reading and practicing.

About injuries, most sport people that have problems with injuries is because they have doing it for years, given that he hasnt put his knees and a back, etc... in to a continuos stress over the years, I do not think he would be prone to injuries, of course all the streching, warming up, fitness has to be done properly.

You will not lose anything. Let say that the best you can get is 4.0, so what, it is still a good level of tennis an a very competitive one.

Im not saying that the posters here are wrong, they are being realistc, some of them maybe to much, but you cant make projects thinking they will fail, you have to aim to the success and the problems you will find in the way, solve them on the run.

One thing that you will have to work harder than anybody else is match toughness, you simply cant get it unless you play, and it is a lot of playing. I think that this will be your biggest problem.

But go ahead, play some tennis, have fun, be healthy, do tournaments, the bump on the ratings will come by itself. JMO.

[Spokewench]

One key to improving in any sport that I have found in the past, is to focus on small goals instead of larger ones. It does not hurt to have the larger goals, but if you have only that goal, it becomes too hard to keep yourself motivated if you have some goal that is way out there.

So if you have small goals, you are always going to be able to improve that forehand, then the backhand, then the serve, then your footwork, and so on and so on until you have moved up a level of play; and then keep going. So keep your eye on those small goals and you will achieve the long term goals eventually.

[CoachingMastery]

If you hope to reach a 5.0 level, you must first understand what 5.0 level strokes, strategies, footwork and techniques are and then second, understand how to emulate these patterns.

The reason only 5% of the playing public reach 5.0 levels is because they are the ones who learned the game within this level of expectation.

The VAST majority of players learn the game within the context of transitional learning...that is, they learn patterns that get them "hitting the ball over the net" but then, at some point, must change to more advanced, more effective techniques. This is the rub: most players can't change from their mediocre, ineffective methods to new methods that feel uncomfortable, unfamiliar and produce initially unsuccessful results.

The outcome: They all resort back to their familiar, comfortable, but ineffective strokes basically maintaining the level they are at for life. Ever see a person who has been at the 3.0 level for a number of years suddenly move out of that level and reach higher levels? It is rare.

The vast number of players are stuck at the 3.0 adn 3.5 levels for these reasons.

Personally, I've trained hundreds upon hundreds of players to reach 5.0 levels and above. (Many reaching professional tour level play, college play, national and state ranked play, etc.) The point is, all of these players developed what I call in my books, an "Advanced Foundation" one that does not REQUIRE change for more advanced levels.

I've had a number of adults move out of the 3.5 levels because they understood the first paragraph of this post...and diligently worked to change their game...even as it meant playing at a perceived lower level initially while they became more accustomed to and confident with the higher level techniques.

Hope this makes sense to all.

[Power Player]

2 hours on a wall or with a machine will beat you up fast. Be careful. An hour of playing on the wall or hitting with a good 4.0+ partner is pretty intense too.

Getting in tennis shape is not easy. And I am in a lot better shape then many people. The start/stop movements and quick bursts are fantastic ways to get in shape, but they do wear you down at first.

[VGP]

misterchris - you sound determined and motivated.

Since essentially, you're a blank slate, would you mind posting videos of your progress? You just might set a good (even inspirational) example around here.

[Djokovicfan4life]

Originally Posted by Spokewench

DID YOU HAVE TO SHOUT SO LOUD?? I think I'm deaf now.

It goes well with his avatar.

[Topaz]

Originally Posted by misterchris

*When I am nailing groundstrokes with pace and have a respectable serve, start the local ladder/tournament system to learn about game play, but stay more focused on practice than competition against other losers. When I get very good at hitting, seek out other great players to practice with. There is a tennis academy outside Washington DC near where I live.

I am interrested to see what I can do with this.

Hey there! There is a group of us TTWs members that live in the DC metro area...we get together, hit, drink, eat...etc! We have a thread in odds and ends...follow link...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=130010

[babolat41]

This guy is a beauty!! He's an athlete, but he's 10-15 pounds overweight. He's got technique, but he hasn't played in any games, just against a ball machine. He's 35 but he feels like a teen. His first lesson he learned everything and got confidence. And worked on his forehand 1 day and backhand 2 day's so hes pretty much got it!..... Listen guy, you get good at what you practice, if you practice everyday for two or three years,l the sky is the limit! You obviously have confidence in you athletic abilities which is great for detremination! You shoud map your goals a bit diffrent, like working on finding matches with guys that are better then you until you surpass them and move on! If your practicing everyday the matches that you lose will show you what to get better at fast!!! Good luck!

[LafayetteHitter]

Originally Posted by BullDogTennis

years. chances are you'll hit 4.0ish in about a year or maybe a little longer and then you'll start to flatline and it takes SO long to move up from there. if you keep the work ethic you have now maybe 3 years at the earliest.

How is it possible to even predict 4.0 after a year. I know some guys that have played 10 years and they can barely hang with the top notch 3.0's around here. As others have pointed out talent has alot to do with rising above the 4.0 level. I think there are people that ASSUME they are a 4.0 and probably are not even close. The difference between a solid 4.0 and a benchmark 4.5 is quite noticeable and the difference between a 4.5 and 5.0 is not so visual but it's there. Most of the guys that are the best 4.5 in this area are former 5.0-5.5 college guys that are aging. Very few of the 4.5 guys started during their thirties and worked up from there.

[smoothtennis]

You have a solid and definitive goal - as Moz pointed out, that is something most rec tennis players will never have. It is a great start.

I like that you have laid a plan out - however - it seems a bit mechanical regarding a sport that is far more than a mechanical or technical endevor. I don't mean this in any sort of negative way.

If you don't want to burn out - and it's easy to do with your approach, please consider adding to your goals, some tacitical goals that are based on emotional well being, and love of the sport. You simply MUST truly enjoy running around, tyring to hit that little ball back over the net - just for the pure joy of hitting and having some fun. I cannot stress this enough, and I am a 42 yr old player, started when I was 30, and was very athletic as yourself when younger.

You may find this interesting, but from my understanding of your original post, you are approaching tennis exactly to the letter, as Tim Gallwey describes in Chapter 8 of his book (The Inner Game of Tennis), called the 'Perfect-O' Game. This will lead to much emotional frustration over time, and only worse ----believe it or not-----as you get BETTER and BETTER!

I digress, yes, but understand something about this sport. There is always but always but always skills that are just out of your current grasp no matter what level of play your are at. As you get better, and your skills improve, the next set of skills become more subtle, and far harder to attain.

None of what I say here is to discourage you, but hopefully, to add another dimension to your current plan. What you have laid out is strategical in nature, but will require a lot of tactical planning, including emotional development, to really bring it all together.

There likely isn't any 5.0 player that exists, that doesn't have a real true inner passion to play the game - for the fun of the game.

I'll post a secone post on your query about fitness....