What do you think of Jo11yroger's Forehand take back?

[Mansewerz]

Originally Posted by TonLars

About a week ago! Has definitely taken some getting used to, since its a pretty drastic change. 107 to 95 in head size, and like 11 oz to 12 in weight, and quite a bit more head light now in balance. I played rather poorly for a few days lately but am starting to get used to the racquet and im liking the control alot. Im playing more smooth letting the racquet do the work rather than swiningly so hard with the flexpoint os, and that has helped. I was getting very frustrated with playing with the yonex at first since I was missing offensive shots, and mishitting some shots, but once I started to just try to play smooth and consistent Ive gotten accustomed to the racquet and I feel like Im playing offense better. I think Ive sacrificed some power with the switch but im going to gain control, and maybe a little heavier ball on the ground by staying smooth, and maybe a little pop to the serve with the added weight.

Oh I know the feeling. With my ntour, I have to do more work. But the fischer feels much better and smoother. Plus way more stability with volleys (I love volleying if you didn't know, just gotta get better at them )

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by TonLars

You apparently must be smoking a muffler.

well, I'm trying to feel what you are feeling.

Originally Posted by TonLars

OR, you misread what I wrote in that (and this) thread completely.

I don't think so. You commented on Wilder based on the video I provided. Then, after I posted his accomplishments, you still were saying the same thing. Same goes for Lake. And, it doesn't matter that you know him or not, or have seen him hit or not. In fact, you even said Lake was not a 5.5 because of his age.

Originally Posted by TonLars

The issue was that as people age, they cant necessarily, or usually, be called the same rating as when they were 20 years younger.

Really??? So a 50 year old, goes and plays an open tournament. He beats everyone on the way to winning the championships. Every player has a NTRP rating of 5.0 +, and includes 15, 20, 25 year olds. But because this guy is older, he is not a 5.0??????

Originally Posted by TonLars

Val doesnt hit a big ball

And you know this???? How???? have you played him, or seen him play live???? You would consider a serve near 120 "not big"??? Interesting.

[Rui]

Okay, Jolly, I've seen your backhand slice clip. Is it your habit to let the ball drop like that for your slice?

[TonLars]

Originally Posted by drakulie

I don't think so. You commented on Wilder based on the video I provided. Then, after I posted his accomplishments, you still were saying the same thing. Same goes for Lake. And, it doesn't matter that you know him or not, or have seen him hit or not. In fact, you even said Lake was not a 5.5 because of his age.



Really??? So a 50 year old, goes and plays an open tournament. He beats everyone on the way to winning the championships. Every player has a NTRP rating of 5.0 +, and includes 15, 20, 25 year olds. But because this guy is older, he is not a 5.0??????



And you know this???? How???? have you played him, or seen him play live???? You would consider a serve near 120 "not big"??? Interesting.

Wow, didnt realize you were like this. Yes, I am still saying what I said even now considering Val; I said so in this thread too. Disagree if you want, but I believe that a high, young, or college playing 5.0 player on any given Sunday could beat Val. At the very least, they would likely have great points and possibly close scores often. You are correct that I have never seen Val play, and I am simply making a judgement of him based on the video you posted, and based on his age. Not only his age, but a few of his results. I can show you what I mean concerning results if you insist on continuing to argue about this. However, the same discussion does NOT go for Lake, again. I did not say what you are saying I said about him. I briefly considered trying to find the thread and the posts to show you, but this is just rediculous and I dont think I have the need to do so... so ill leave the burden of proof of that with you to dig that up. If its indeed true, then I will apologize and admit my mistake. Most likely, you just misread something or got it out of context, because I dont know Andy Lake whatsoever and do not remember making any judgement on him. Im sure he is a 5.5 or whatever you say he is based on his ranking; it makes sense to me.

NTRP is what it is, and if Val is winning and doing what you say he is then Im sure he is about a 5.5 player. The point I made, and tried to make now although not specific enough for you since youre misreading everything I say, is that if he was a 6.0 or 6.5 when he was much younger, he may not, and in other cases others usually would not, be that same rating. Theyre slower and weaker. Would you seriously call Val a 6.0 or 6.5 or whatever? Based on the video I would confidently say he is definitely not. Based on results he is amazing for his age group but he is not on par with good 5.5 to 6.0 players

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by SirBlend12

I love how people try to negate his playing abilities based on what he blatantly stated was a practice drill. I believe I saw in one thread somewhere on the board that Jo11y is actually a ~5.5? Not sure of it, but if he is, I can only assume that most of you are truly qualified to advise a 5.5.

Someone else may have said that, but it certainly wasn't me. I don't have the creds.

J

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak15347

disregarding the discussion over NTRP ratings, great videos, jolly. more videos are always welcome .

Thanks man, I will put them up as Vimeo allows me.

And I will tell you how my tournament playing goes in 09, hopefully I will be able to put up some respectable results. As sup can tell you, I only played a handful this year and got clobbered by everyone who figured out how to put their shoes on.

Bustin my tail, trying to fix up a bunch of things with my game, so hopefully the video will provide some good documentation.

J

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Rui

Okay, Jolly, I've seen your backhand slice clip. Is it your habit to let the ball drop like that for your slice?

No, my hitting partner was off the court and that ball bounced at about the service T, while I was camped behind the baseline, so it was comming very slowly and I decided to lay into it with a heavy slice.

The sequence of pics came out really really well, and I thought it looked cool, so I posted it up, and everyone saw fit to tell me that my slice sucked and wasn't nearly as good as Djokovics.

J

[Mansewerz]

Wait, how'd you do this year jo11y

[Rui]

Okay. So you're really normal.

[Mike Cottrill]

Originally Posted by TonLars

NTRP is what it is, and if Val is winning and doing what you say he is then Im sure he is about a 5.5 player. Would you seriously call Val a 6.0 or 6.5 or whatever? Based on the video I would confidently say he is definitely not. Based on results he is amazing for his age group but he is not on par with good 5.5 to 6.0 players

Tony,
No disrespect, but your signature say NTRP 6.0. However the USTA has you as a 5.0. You know, NTRP is was it is ..
Now, maybe I should go watch him hit with Knowles and maybe take a few clips lol..
Most of the college kids do not have the mental strength to take him.. I do know a ex Div I player much younger than him and it took him a long time to take a practice match off of him. And this much younger player was top 400 ATP doubles at one time.. Don’t under estimate the old man. Oh, and they have him at 5.5 as well.

[TonLars]

Originally Posted by Mike Cottrill

Tony,
No disrespect, but your signature say NTRP 6.0. However the USTA has you as a 5.0. You know, NTRP is was it is ..
Now, maybe I should go watch him hit with Knowles and maybe take a few clips lol..
Most of the college kids do not have the mental strength to take him.. I do know a ex Div I player much younger than him and it took him a long time to take a practice match off of him. And this much younger player was top 400 ATP doubles at one time.. Don’t under estimate the old man. Oh, and they have him at 5.5 as well.

Im sure Ive explained this to you before, if not I have explained it a dozen times to others. My NTRP rating is based on the league I play in: 5.0. There are not enough good players for a 5.5 league here as may be the case in other tennis hotbed states. I enjoy playing and competing at this game a great deal, and I enjoy being on a team with some friends, but mainly I think of it as getting a scheduled practice match in from the league. I never even have close 5.0 matches outside of the other 5.5 players I play in the league, or when I served underhanded due to an injury for a stint. My rating is based on tournament results and ability, and is about a 5.5-6.0. Ive been bumped and close to getting bumped out of the 5.0 league every year but the USTA crew puts me and some others back in so we can represent our section decently (we are in fact a weaker section due to our location/climate).

I say Val is a 5.5 player and I say a good young college player, maybe a strong 5.0, could potentially beat a player like Val on a given day. How is that unreasonable? He has beaten a player in his age group with more difficulty than I have had (common opponent), he is relatively old and does not move as fast, does not hit a big groundstroke, so my point of him no longer being a 6.0 or 6.5 makes sense does it not? He is a great player; Im sure he can beat college players and wins Open tournaments but I would not say he is better than a 5.5 rating and could go beat ranked Division 1 players or blaze the Futures circuit at his age. The above is all Ive ever been saying, and we are entitled to opinions I guess outside of the concrete results

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Mansewerz

Wait, how'd you do this year jo11y

I only played 4 tournaments this year, twice I lost to my friend and I got thumped by 2 other guys.

I make no excuses, but I can't wait to play those other two guys again.

Oh and I had to withdraw from one and they kept my mother *&^$*$ entry fee of $95. Because my dumb *** didn't bother to look up the dates when the tourney was scheduled and see that it was during the week instead of over the weekend.

The last 2 I entered were both cancelled by the director, so I pretty much gave up on 08. I will play the national in December and then go full steam into 09.

I will keep you posted as I play in 09.

J

[Sup2Dresq]

Hey Tony,

I got your email, but my response keeps getting bounced back. If you are on AOL IM, my screen name is the same as my email address: Sup2dresq@aim.com

Thanks
Sup

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by TonLars

Im sure Ive explained this to you before, if not I have explained it a dozen times to others. My NTRP rating is based on the league I play in: 5.0. There are not enough good players for a 5.5 league here as may be the case in other tennis hotbed states. I enjoy playing and competing at this game a great deal, and I enjoy being on a team with some friends, but mainly I think of it as getting a scheduled practice match in from the league. I never even have close 5.0 matches outside of the other 5.5 players I play in the league, or when I served underhanded due to an injury for a stint. My rating is based on tournament results and ability, and is about a 5.5-6.0. Ive been bumped and close to getting bumped out of the 5.0 league every year but the USTA crew puts me and some others back in so we can represent our section decently (we are in fact a weaker section due to our location/climate).

I say Val is a 5.5 player and I say a good young college player, maybe a strong 5.0, could potentially beat a player like Val on a given day. How is that unreasonable? He has beaten a player in his age group with more difficulty than I have had (common opponent), he is relatively old and does not move as fast, does not hit a big groundstroke, so my point of him no longer being a 6.0 or 6.5 makes sense does it not? He is a great player; Im sure he can beat college players and wins Open tournaments but I would not say he is better than a 5.5 rating and could go beat ranked Division 1 players or blaze the Futures circuit at his age. The above is all Ive ever been saying, and we are entitled to opinions I guess outside of the concrete results

I think both you and Drak have points. Val is the typical former pro who is actually a very difficult opponent to play due to his experience. If we're talking about a D1 player who's never played him before, I'd definitely give Val the edge. This is not to say that the D1 player is bad, but it's more like the D1 player just doesn't play someone like Val every day. They are normally accustomed to players like themselves.


Val is very seasoned, and extremely tough to play against. I don't even have to see him play to know that he would be extremely difficult to play against, as he knows how to win without hitting huge balls all the time (very typical of former pros). A D1 player would struggle simply due to the consistency and placement, along with the firepower he brings (he may be older, but guys around his age can still bring the heat). Val was an ATP pro for a reason.


However, if the D1 player has had experience playing against Val, and knows how to play against him (as in, they know what type of gameplan to use), then I think the D1 player would win a few times simply due to sheer athleticism. When you are younger, there are things you can do simply because your body is in it's peak physical condition.


All in all, it would depend on the situation, the surface, etc.

[Mansewerz]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

I only played 4 tournaments this year, twice I lost to my friend and I got thumped by 2 other guys.

I make no excuses, but I can't wait to play those other two guys again.

Oh and I had to withdraw from one and they kept my mother *&^$*$ entry fee of $95. Because my dumb *** didn't bother to look up the dates when the tourney was scheduled and see that it was during the week instead of over the weekend.

The last 2 I entered were both cancelled by the director, so I pretty much gave up on 08. I will play the national in December and then go full steam into 09.

I will keep you posted as I play in 09.

J

$95?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be so ****ed..........................Was there a deadline for withdrawals?

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Rui

Okay. So you're really normal.

Woah, hey, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I am certainly not normal

I have been working hard on the slice for the past year and a half. It is still a fairly new shot to me, and I am getting almost frigteningly good at hitting it, though I am still inconsistent.

I struggle on the eye and shoulder high ones, but I have a 2 hander, so I can just thump those.

In matchplay I mainly slice when I can be very aggressive with it, or on very low balls, otherwise I just use the 2 hander.

In practice I slice a lot because I want to get better with it, and become more versatile.

J

[Mike Cottrill]

Yes you have explained your rating before. I was just responding to your statement NTRP is what it is. You need to remember Val plays on many surfaces too. That individual you mention, he beat handily on grass. The other on clay was with a bum knee. How do you know he does not have power? Did you talk to your friend? His game is not power and the same goes for many top players. He has so many spins. He is not going to blow a 120 serve, but he will put you into the fence out wide. How do you know he does not have power? Oh, and I have seen this other player who has about 6% body fat and built like a tank grab his side after a long rally.. While he is fresh as a daisy.. I’m sure he has lost a ½ step or so.. A 5.0 beat him? Not when he is healthy IMO.

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Mansewerz

$95?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be so ****ed..........................Was there a deadline for withdrawals?

I didn't ask, I am ****ed at that whole club. They claimed to have a red clay tourney, and I ended up having to play on mud mixed with parking lot gravel with a net slung across it. I proceded to lose 0 and 2.

The only reason I entered is because I really wanted to play on grass.

I kind of want to go back there for revenge, and I kind of don't ever want to set foot in there again.

J

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by Mike Cottrill

Yes you have explained your rating before. I was just responding to your statement NTRP is what it is. You need to remember Val plays on many surfaces too. That individual you mention, he beat handily on grass. The other on clay was with a bum knee. How do you know he does not have power? Did you talk to your friend? His game is not power and the same goes for many top players. He has so many spins. He is not going to blow a 120 serve, but he will put you into the fence out wide. How do you know he does not have power? Oh, and I have seen this other player who has about 6% body fat and built like a tank grab his side after a long rally.. While he is fresh as a daisy.. I’m sure he has lost a ½ step or so.. A 5.0 beat him? Not when he is healthy IMO.

I think a strong D1 player (5.5) could beat Val if he has had experience playing against Val before. From my own experience (from watching USTA matches), many former pros beat up on younger guys simply due to their experience and their superior game plan, not because they blow them off the court (although I have seen this before). The younger guys typically like to play a game centered around power, which plays right into the hands of a player like Val.


However, if the D1 player KNOWS that he can't overwhelm Val with power, I think he stands a pretty good chance of winning a match or two, simply due to sheer athleticism. This is of course, if the D1 player knows what kind of gameplan to use.

[Mike Cottrill]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

I think a strong D1 player (5.5) could beat Val if he has had experience playing against Val before.

I agree as stated above in my post to Tony. Gave and example.. It took a long time for him to do it, he was not happy and the next time they played.. well, lets say he took the practice match serious. Years latter they still hit and he does win some.