Better system for ratings?

Lendl · 12-06-2008, 03:04 PM

I play on an adult travel team and we've had a terrible time getting players eligible to play. Some background ...

We play 4.5 which is the highest in our area. There is no 5.0 so anyone rated 5.0 or higher is SOL as far as getting on a team. We have a few players rated at 5.0 or higher that are far removed from any college experience, and none of them did anything beyond college yet they fail any and all appeals. One player did play four years at Iowa which is very tough and a solid college but he is in his 40s now. He played at Iowa 20 years ago.

Shouldn't there be some common sense involved in these ratings instead of what a computer spits out?

CrocodileRock · 12-06-2008, 06:55 PM

I'm with you Ivan. That has been one of the frustrating things about playing NTRP - computer mistakes that should easily be corrected by a human being with a brain stem. Back before DNRTP, section coordinators would meet one weekend a year to discuss ratings, and who should move up or down, and who shouldn't, based on results and visual ratings at sectionals. I'm sure the computer is doing some good things, but there are also countless of examples of player A being better than player B, yet player B has a higher computer rating, and can't do anything about it. People need to understand that this is an inexact science, and will have inherent flaws, but until someone invents something better, we just have to live with it.

goober · 12-06-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendl

I play on an adult travel team and we've had a terrible time getting players eligible to play. Some background ...

We play 4.5 which is the highest in our area. There is no 5.0 so anyone rated 5.0 or higher is SOL as far as getting on a team. We have a few players rated at 5.0 or higher that are far removed from any college experience, and none of them did anything beyond college yet they fail any and all appeals. One player did play four years at Iowa which is very tough and a solid college but he is in his 40s now. He played at Iowa 20 years ago.

Shouldn't there be some common sense involved in these ratings instead of what a computer spits out?

I am not sure I follow you. First you say that you have a hard to getting 5.0 players elgible for 4.5. Then you say well one guy played D1 college 20 years ago, he really should be allowed to play 4.5.

It sounds like you are most upset about trying to fill out a roster for your team.

The USTA experienced player guidelines does in fact make adjustments for age. If he played on a top 75 D1 team, he can self rate 4.5 at age 51. If his team was ranked lower than that he can rate 4.5 at age 46.

Even if he hasn't done much tennis since then he could easily train hard and get himself to a high level versus some adult that started tennis in his age 30-40s and just got bumped to 4.5. You know this, I know this and you want to stack your team. It sounds like the system worked.

Lendl · 12-07-2008, 09:51 AM

I'm saying these guys are rated at 5.0 and there is no 5.0 here. I only play 4.5 because that is the highest available in our area and these guys who are trying to play are being told no because they played division 1 20 years ago. If he was 27 years old and 5 years out of college and has been a teaching pro since or something I can see. 20 years out of college tennis and being told too bad is ridiculous.

I can't see why people like this cannot be given a chance to play and even put them on "probation" where they will be moved up if they win too easily. Being told "no" without the chance to play seems contradictory to the USTA's main goal of increasing participation.

goober · 12-07-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendl

I'm saying these guys are rated at 5.0 and there is no 5.0 here. I only play 4.5 because that is the highest available in our area and these guys who are trying to play are being told no because they played division 1 20 years ago. If he was 27 years old and 5 years out of college and has been a teaching pro since or something I can see. 20 years out of college tennis and being told too bad is ridiculous.

I can't see why people like this cannot be given a chance to play and even put them on "probation" where they will be moved up if they win too easily. Being told "no" without the chance to play seems contradictory to the USTA's main goal of increasing participation.

You have plenty of options:

1. Start your own 5.0 USTA league. 5.0 leagues have 1 line of singles and 2 lines of doubles.

2. Start your own 5.0 league that is nonUSTA. I know a group of high level guys that started their own league. They all pay a small fee and the winners get a small prize at the end. You can set it up any way you want- singles/doubles. Why do have to rely on USTA?

3. Interclub leagues: There is a pretty strong 5.0 interclub league in my town.

4. Internet leagues: Peach/Kswiss

5. Lastly you make it sound, like either these guys play 4.5 league tennis or they won't be playing at all! USTA leagues are not the be all end all. I know plenty of players who do not play them and they play competitive matches all the time. The are USTA tourneys, USTA flex which has a 4.5 and above division, and a whole host of nonUSTA leagues.

Lendl · 12-07-2008, 10:35 AM

Not sure where you are but here (SW Michigan) that is pretty much our only option

We play a ton of practice matches but there in nothing outside of USTA travel teams. Next to nothing as far as tournaments without traveling (Chicago or Indianapolis) and no other 5.0 teams in and city in Michigan I know of.

Cruzer · 12-07-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendl

I play on an adult travel team and we've had a terrible time getting players eligible to play.

What is a "travel" team?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendl

We play 4.5 which is the highest in our area. There is no 5.0 so anyone rated 5.0 or higher is SOL as far as getting on a team. We have a few players rated at 5.0 or higher that are far removed from any college experience, and none of them did anything beyond college yet they fail any and all appeals. One player did play four years at Iowa which is very tough and a solid college but he is in his 40s now. He played at Iowa 20 years ago.

Is there an Open level? In that league you can have as many of your college buddies as you want on your team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lendl

Shouldn't there be some common sense involved in these ratings instead of what a computer spits out?

Common sense and USTA ratings don't go together partially because the USTA is not loaded with staff to review all the computer generated ratings. It is very difficult to guess what someone's rating should be if you have not actually seen them play.

Lendl · 12-07-2008, 01:39 PM

No, 4.5 is highest. Travel team is just my term, basically you play for a "TEAM" and travel around through the state and play other teams rated at the same NTRP. Two singles and three doubles teams, eight total players.

12-06-2008, 03:04 PM	#1
Lendl Semi-Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 514	Better system for ratings? I play on an adult travel team and we've had a terrible time getting players eligible to play. Some background ... We play 4.5 which is the highest in our area. There is no 5.0 so anyone rated 5.0 or higher is SOL as far as getting on a team. We have a few players rated at 5.0 or higher that are far removed from any college experience, and none of them did anything beyond college yet they fail any and all appeals. One player did play four years at Iowa which is very tough and a solid college but he is in his 40s now. He played at Iowa 20 years ago. Shouldn't there be some common sense involved in these ratings instead of what a computer spits out? __________________ Babolat APDC - Synthetic Gut 55 lbs.

12-06-2008, 06:55 PM	#2
CrocodileRock Rookie Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Waco, Texas Posts: 348	I'm with you Ivan. That has been one of the frustrating things about playing NTRP - computer mistakes that should easily be corrected by a human being with a brain stem. Back before DNRTP, section coordinators would meet one weekend a year to discuss ratings, and who should move up or down, and who shouldn't, based on results and visual ratings at sectionals. I'm sure the computer is doing some good things, but there are also countless of examples of player A being better than player B, yet player B has a higher computer rating, and can't do anything about it. People need to understand that this is an inexact science, and will have inherent flaws, but until someone invents something better, we just have to live with it. __________________ I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far.

12-07-2008, 09:51 AM	#4
Lendl Semi-Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 514	I'm saying these guys are rated at 5.0 and there is no 5.0 here. I only play 4.5 because that is the highest available in our area and these guys who are trying to play are being told no because they played division 1 20 years ago. If he was 27 years old and 5 years out of college and has been a teaching pro since or something I can see. 20 years out of college tennis and being told too bad is ridiculous. I can't see why people like this cannot be given a chance to play and even put them on "probation" where they will be moved up if they win too easily. Being told "no" without the chance to play seems contradictory to the USTA's main goal of increasing participation. __________________ Babolat APDC - Synthetic Gut 55 lbs.

12-07-2008, 10:35 AM	#6
Lendl Semi-Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 514	Not sure where you are but here (SW Michigan) that is pretty much our only option We play a ton of practice matches but there in nothing outside of USTA travel teams. Next to nothing as far as tournaments without traveling (Chicago or Indianapolis) and no other 5.0 teams in and city in Michigan I know of. __________________ Babolat APDC - Synthetic Gut 55 lbs.

12-07-2008, 01:39 PM	#8
Lendl Semi-Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 514	No, 4.5 is highest. Travel team is just my term, basically you play for a "TEAM" and travel around through the state and play other teams rated at the same NTRP. Two singles and three doubles teams, eight total players. __________________ Babolat APDC - Synthetic Gut 55 lbs.