video of high level 94 player at copper bowl

[floridakeys]

Just found this on youtube. This match was from this years copper bowl..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtdb...&feature=email

[Ronny]

wow, look at 36secs in...he cheated sooo badly

[SoCal10s]

wow what a cheat,who is this guy? what age division ?

[Ronny]

94, so im guessing 14's

[Petekbladetour1]

he is a big cheat!!!
by the way im 14 and my shots are just as good as his

[Moz]

What an odious little ****.

[scraps234]

sweet i was there! but yeah he did cheat

[joshburger]

Cheatttttttterrrr

[jamesbond4]

that call in jr tennis is very acceptable. Everyone knows that the backline is the hardest to call so they figure the line is out. pretty rediculous i know but its something the players have to deal with

[tenniscp]

Originally Posted by floridakeys

Just found this on youtube. This match was from this years copper bowl..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtdb...&feature=email

Did you post this thread because you were impressed with the level of play or was your intention to expose the kid for making a bad call?

I do agree, the kid does make a wrong call, but he does it rather quickly and convincingly, which could point to one of two scenarios:

1) He is a master at making bad calls and does it in style OR
2) While running hard to track down a well struck ball by his opponent, he makes a wrong call, but considering the angle and speed of the ball, it was not intentional.

To label someone a cheater, there has to be more than one instance where bad calls are made. Unless there is history with this particular kid (whom you do mention by his first and last name, so I am assuming you have an invested interest here) that you are aware of.

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Actually, it must have been sent along pointing out an ironic submission to yoputube; I doubt the youtube poster even saw the bad call on the tape and posted it, which kind of confirms your idea the kid made one isolated call.

However, there has been numerous posts lately concerning the amount of obvious cheating that has been on the increase and in 2009 already seen in Arizona at the Winternationals and the Copper Bowl.

Lets put this in perspective; All the little children, running around an adult size court with pencil- like physiques and huge feet dealing with large amounts of invested money, expectations, and sense of entitlement hanging on their shoulders.

Guys spitting water on opponents equipment, guys from So. Cal nick named "psycho", not shaking hands, following the referees to the scoring table berating them all the way; All the classy stuff that makes junior tennis what it is.

[eeytennis]

Originally Posted by MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER

Actually, it must have been sent along pointing out an ironic submission to yoputube; I doubt the youtube poster even saw the bad call on the tape and posted it, which kind of confirms your idea the kid made one isolated call.

However, there has been numerous posts lately concerning the amount of obvious cheating that has been on the increase and in 2009 already seen in Arizona at the Winternationals and the Copper Bowl.

Guys spitting water on opponents equipment, guys from So. Cal nick named "psycho", not shaking hands, following the referees to the scoring table berating them all the way; All the classy stuff that makes junior tennis what it is.

First, to comment on the video...that kid got mad when he missed his FIRST serve...I never understand why people do that, that is why you have a SECOND SERVE!!!

Secondly, the cheating and player behavior has gotten absolutely absurd on both the junior and college level. I watch some people and wonder how they DON'T feel badly about how they behave...whether is cheating on line calls, berating their opponent because they thought they made a bad line call, mouthing off to coaches (in the college level), and much much more. I was watching a local tournament and one girl was arguing left and right over her opponents line calls, when the calls were good. Are coaches teaching their students to do this? To get in the heads of their opponents? Whenever I compete I give my opponent the benefit of the doubt and DON'T argue their line calls. People who argue line calls come across as a jerk most of the time...especially with woman players.

[ayyhwang]

haha i played ognjen at the tennis plaza cup in 2008 b14s and lost 6-0,6-0

[Fred]

Originally Posted by tenniscp

Did you post this thread because you were impressed with the level of play or was your intention to expose the kid for making a bad call?

I do agree, the kid does make a wrong call, but he does it rather quickly and convincingly, which could point to one of two scenarios:

1) He is a master at making bad calls and does it in style OR
2) While running hard to track down a well struck ball by his opponent, he makes a wrong call, but considering the angle and speed of the ball, it was not intentional.

To label someone a cheater, there has to be more than one instance where bad calls are made. Unless there is history with this particular kid (whom you do mention by his first and last name, so I am assuming you have an invested interest here) that you are aware of.

Agreed. It's not at all inconceivable that he honestly missed that call. Who here can say that they don't occasionally miss a call? You try not to, but chances are you do. (Though if you're being honest, about half of your missed calls should benefit your opponent - in the long run). Cheating certainly occurs, but let's not label this kid a cheater based on such scant evidence.

[GeorgeLucas]

Originally Posted by floridakeys

Just found this on youtube. This match was from this years copper bowl..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtdb...&feature=email

Props - they're both pretty bomb players

[rosenstar]

Originally Posted by eeytennis

First, to comment on the video...that kid got mad when he missed his FIRST serve...I never understand why people do that, that is why you have a SECOND SERVE!!!

First serve is crucial to winning a match. The first serve is your chance to take the offensive. Not only that, but teach pros have definitely emphasized the importance of a high first serve percentage to these kids. Also this clip looks like it was one point mid way through the match. If that's the case it's quite possible that his first serve has been failing him this match. Take it from a former tournament player; it's incredibly frustrating when you loose your first serve.

Secondly, the cheating and player behavior has gotten absolutely absurd on both the junior and college level. I watch some people and wonder how they DON'T feel badly about how they behave...whether is cheating on line calls, berating their opponent because they thought they made a bad line call, mouthing off to coaches (in the college level), and much much more. I was watching a local tournament and one girl was arguing left and right over her opponents line calls, when the calls were good. Are coaches teaching their students to do this? To get in the heads of their opponents? Whenever I compete I give my opponent the benefit of the doubt and DON'T argue their line calls. People who argue line calls come across as a jerk most of the time...especially with woman players.

These kids aren't taught to play matches, they're taught to win matches, at all cost. Most academies condone this behavior. They see it as something that can't hurt. I've been told many times at academies to "cheat back" if necessary, but I've never really been cheated out of a match. Of course I've been hooked on many many calls, but it's never lost me a match.

As far as the college game goes, the higher level you play at, you'll see that players show more respect. matches with players at the bottom of the ladder can get ugly, you don't usually see it at the 1 and 2 spots though.

[william7gr]

I wish I could hear what they are saying . . .

[l_gonzalez]

Originally Posted by ayyhwang

haha i played ognjen at the tennis plaza cup in 2008 b14s and lost 6-0,6-0

Gaston Gaudio got double-bageled by Federer a few years ago and he's a French Open champion. Keep your chin up, happens to just about everyone at some point!

[eeytennis]

Originally Posted by rosenstar

First serve is crucial to winning a match. The first serve is your chance to take the offensive. Not only that, but teach pros have definitely emphasized the importance of a high first serve percentage to these kids. Also this clip looks like it was one point mid way through the match. If that's the case it's quite possible that his first serve has been failing him this match. Take it from a former tournament player; it's incredibly frustrating when you loose your first serve.



These kids aren't taught to play matches, they're taught to win matches, at all cost. Most academies condone this behavior. They see it as something that can't hurt. I've been told many times at academies to "cheat back" if necessary, but I've never really been cheated out of a match. Of course I've been hooked on many many calls, but it's never lost me a match.

As far as the college game goes, the higher level you play at, you'll see that players show more respect. matches with players at the bottom of the ladder can get ugly, you don't usually see it at the 1 and 2 spots though.

I am a competitive player and I know that it's frustrating when all your opponent is seeing is 2nd serves...but getting mad like that shows your opponent that you are frustrated and possibly easier to beat mentally.

I think it's awful that academies would teach that...to "cheat back"...I don't care if it gets in their opponents head, most truly good opponents wouldn't let it affect them anyway, and the person who "cheated back" looks like a bad sport with some sportsmanship issues.

[rosenstar]

Originally Posted by eeytennis

I am a competitive player and I know that it's frustrating when all your opponent is seeing is 2nd serves...but getting mad like that shows your opponent that you are frustrated and possibly easier to beat mentally.

I think it's awful that academies would teach that...to "cheat back"...I don't care if it gets in their opponents head, most truly good opponents wouldn't let it affect them anyway, and the person who "cheated back" looks like a bad sport with some sportsmanship issues.

as far as showing anger on the court, yes it can hurt your game, but sometimes it just happens, especially for juniors. The mental game is the biggest difference between the juniors and pros. You can't go to a junior tournament without seeing a few melt downs. It's just the nature of the sport; It's a lot of pressure and it's all on one person. It's tough for a young kid to understand that "it's just a sport" when there spending a minimum of 2 hrs on the court each day. When that's the case, it's not just a sport, it's life. Pressure builds up, showing frustration is nearly inevitable.

And I agree that cheating back is wrong, but what can you do? These kids really don't understand that there is life beyond tennis. It's the nature of the sport (at least in America). Again, these kids don't care about sportsmenship; they care about winning.