Junior Australian Open

[Fred]

Originally Posted by ClarkC

I am pretty sure Rhyne Williams has turned pro, about a month ago. Can you go to a junior slam after you turn pro?

Did he really? That would surprise me since he said at a Challenger in November that he intended to go to college. Where did you hear that he turned pro?

Here's the relevant part of the article:

Williams lost in the first round to Slovenia's Luka Gregorc 7-6 (2), 6-3 and afterward announced his decision to play college tennis next fall.

"Yep, as of now, unless I win five of these in a row," said Williams. He said his top five schools are Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Duke, Illinois and Texas A&M.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/no...at-challenger/

To answer your question, pros can play junior slams and any other ITF event as long as they meet the age eligibility requirement. Ryan and Christian Harrison, for example, turrned pro about a year ago. Donald Young turned pro around the age of 14 and competed in juniors.

[ClarkC]

There is a pretty simple formula for deciding what tournaments to go to, for most junior players: If you are dominating at one level of tournaments, move up to the next level. Once there, even play a few at the level above that just to see what it is like and what you need to work on.

For most juniors, there are national tournaments, men's opens, Futures tourneys, and occasional ITF events in the states, all of which are very challenging and not easy to dominate. Many of these tournaments are pretty low profile compared to the junior Australian Open, but they provide great challenges and experience for a lot less money than going to Australia.

Satisfying "American tennis fans" by going to Australia, rather than to the qualifying rounds of a Futures event close to home, is not a priority. It is sad, but true, that the wishes of all of us on a tennis message board are not the determining factor in their schedule.

[ClarkC]

Originally Posted by Fred

Did he really? That would surprise me since he said at a Challenger in November that he intended to go to college unless he won "five of these tournaments in a row." Where did you hear that he turned pro?

You can play junior slams and any other ITF event even if you have turned pro. Ryan and Christian Harrison, for example, turned pro about a year ago. Donald Young turned pro around the age of 14 and competed in juniors.

Rhyne Williams dropped out of all the college recruiting stories precipitously during the November signing period. At tennisrecruiting.net, he suddenly became unranked. That usually either means (1) he turned pro, or (2) they decided he was not an American junior but was actually from some other country. #2 seems like a slim possibility, so I figured #1 was it.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by tennismom42

Here is what a child's life is like in Taiwan:

First, all children wear the school uniform. Besides obvious reasons, the less obvious reason is because if you're seen commiting something wrong, they know which school you belong to.

Second, the child is issued a certain number of uniforms at the beginning of each school year. There's a pocket in the front. On the pocket is embroidered numbers. The first sequence of numbers are in black and a reasonable size. They represent your school district, your school, your classroom & lastly the number of students in your classroom last year. So it could look like this: 4379235. Thus last year's classroom had 35 students. Next comes two RED numbers and they are a lot larger. These two numbers are your RANK out of those 35. So let's say your school-issued, mandatory uniform has red numbers of 33. You are toast! Don't even think about stopping for ice cream after school or going out for lunch. Vendors will not sell to you. Your community will see your Red 33 and not-so-nicely suggest you need to eat less ice cream & study more.

So, no, kids in Taiwan have no life. I think the Chineese alphabet has 600 characters. Those kids study or attend school at least 50 hours per week as well. That's the society where kids commit suicide if they don't pass their college entrance academic exam. They have elementary school kids commiting suicide if they don't pass. It's huge pressure!

I assume a few talented kids are carefully offered opportunities to do athletics, but they must still maintain academics

Interesting. I wonder if the suicide rate among children (say 18 and younger) is higher than it is in the U.S. The commitment to academic excellence is admirable, but based on how you've described it, it sounds like they take it to the extreme. How did you like it there?

[Fred]

Originally Posted by ClarkC

Rhyne Williams dropped out of all the college recruiting stories precipitously during the November signing period. At tennisrecruiting.net, he suddenly became unranked. That usually either means (1) he turned pro, or (2) they decided he was not an American junior but was actually from some other country. #2 seems like a slim possibility, so I figured #1 was it.

I edited my previous post to include the article in which he was quoted as saying that he planned to go to college. It's from November 17th. But you're right, it is odd that tennisrecruiting.net removed him from their rankings. He's definitely an American, so that's not the reason.

Maybe he suddenly changed his mind.

[tennismom42]

Originally Posted by Fred

I edited my previous post to include the article in which he was quoted as saying that he planned to go to college. It's from November 17th. But you're right, it is odd that tennisrecruiting.net removed him from their rankings. He's definitely an American, so that's not the reason.

Maybe he suddenly changed his mind.

He or his parent can simply ask to have it deleted & TRN will do so. Perhaps it took a lot of speculation & gossip off his plate. Perhaps they just didn't want to deal with all the comparisons & stats. I think it's pretty savvy actually. I've noticed many of the top kids don't even list which colleges they are considering & have very few details on their profiles.

[tennismom42]

Originally Posted by Fred

Interesting. I wonder if the suicide rate among children (say 18 and younger) is higher than it is in the U.S. The commitment to academic excellence is admirable, but based on how you've described it, it sounds like they take it to the extreme. How did you like it there?

they do take it to extremes, but in my opinion, the orientals & Indians are several years ahead of our kids, academically. Which ones do you think will end up in management right away?

How did I like Taiwan? Hmm. We nearly starved to death. I didn't know how to cook seafood, a beef roast was about $30 and tasted like it was 50 years old. I loved the night flea market & public transportation. I hated driving. Lots of snakes. Pretty beach. Best part was the Spanish fort from, I don't know, maybe 1600s. I liked it. I liked every place I've been on the planet except Bali -- armpit of the planet. Favorite place = Penang, Malaysia

[flat]

Originally Posted by Fred

I wouldn't say that U.S. tennis is sad compared to Taiwan. They have one player in the ATP top 100, Yen-Hsun Lu, who's ranked #61. Their next highest ranked player is #319. The U.S. has eight top 100 players, including five ranked ahead of their highest ranked player. The U.S. has 25 players ranked ahead of Taiwan's second highest ranked player. The U.S. has 25 juniors ranked inside the ITF top 200. Taiwan has four, though three are top 30. (The U.S. has four in the top 30 as well, not including Ryan Harrison and Rhyne Williams, who didn't play a lot of ITFs last year.) There is an enormous difference in population between the two countries, but I still wouldn't call U.S. tennis sad in comparison, especially when comparing what really matters, pro rankings. One also has to take into accont that tennis is far down the list of the most popular American sports. Where does tennis rank in Taiwan? That could offset part of the population disparity (though not a large portion of it, obviously).

Fred,

It's not just the enormous population difference. There are, practically speaking, little to no recreational tennis opportunities (real estate is expensive, and no money/interest to maintained public courts. Extremely humid & hot summers, rainy winter season). As far as I know, there aren't any junior tournaments at the grassroots level (novice, challengers, opens, etc)...

Basically, in a little island country where tennis is not readily available to the general public, and virtually no one plays the sport (as a % of the population), and Taiwanese aren't usually built like Croatians....they are able to (so far) consistently produce a few top juniors in the world...and a top 50 ranked pro.

It points to a fairly efficient high performance junior development program. I'm going to try to dig out more info on how they do it...

[flat]

Originally Posted by joshburger

isn't india pretty big........

but at the junior us open there were tons of american juniors for both men and wome n

Doesn't matter how big...you don't think about sports when there are other more important issues to deal with in life...

[flat]

Originally Posted by ClarkC

Satisfying "American tennis fans" by going to Australia, rather than to the qualifying rounds of a Futures event close to home, is not a priority. It is sad, but true, that the wishes of all of us on a tennis message board are not the determining factor in their schedule.

Understand why when you have to pay, you pick the best value for your $. The question that's been asked is why don't USTA foot the bill for the top juniors to play in the junior slams? Other (smaller) countries are doing it more than the USA...thus the "Taiwan" discussion we're having.

[flat]

Originally Posted by tennismom42

Best part was the Spanish fort from, I don't know, maybe 1600s. I liked it. I liked every place I've been on the planet except Bali -- armpit of the planet. Favorite place = Penang, Malaysia

Best part of Taiwan is a Spanish fort??? I think someone is biased... It's a Portugese fort, if I remember it correctly.

All SE Asian countries (Taiwan, Korea, Japan...don't know the rest) have similar education policies, and similarly high suicide rates. It's not the best place for creativity, or sports...

[Fred]

It looks like Rhyne Williams is planning to go to college, though he says he's not sure if he will start in the fall or next January.

http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=686

[Fintendo]

Originally Posted by joshburger

isn't india pretty big........

but at the junior us open there were tons of american juniors for both men and wome n

No **** sherlock.

[SoCal10s]

Originally Posted by Fintendo

No **** sherlock.

I love this reply... I haven't heard that in a while.. my brother used to always say that... and also,"so,what does that have to do with the price of fish in China?"

[SaunderS]

Good to see Laura Robson doing so well. She's the future of british womens tennis, and a future top 10 player( you heard it here first)

[NandoMania]

Originally Posted by SaunderS

Good to see Laura Robson doing so well. She's the future of british womens tennis, and a future top 10 player( you heard it here first)

Shocked to see that Laura Robson lost to Ksenia Pervak 3-6, 1-6. I never expected that. Did anyone see or hear the match?

[Techniques]

Originally Posted by NandoMania

Shocked to see that Laura Robson lost to Ksenia Pervak 3-6, 1-6. I never expected that. Did anyone see or hear the match?

Yeah I did. She's still immature but thats expected as she's only 15. Swore and cursed alot, said the F word a bit (out loud). Love her accent though. She'll definately be top 10 material though, give her 3 years and she'll be top 10 I reckon. She's got the game, she seemed to struggle with her consistency today, her opponent just kept in points all the time and made her play one more shot and she got fustrated far too easily. Her movement is ok, nothing special but as she gets older she'll be better in that department. I thought she'd be very little and thin but it looks like she's bulked up alot in the past year since her junior Winbledon win. She's probably grown quite a bit as well, she'll be pretty big once she's 18, I think she's still got some growing to go.

[NandoMania]

Originally Posted by Techniques

Yeah I did. She's still immature but thats expected as she's only 15. Swore and cursed alot, said the F word a bit (out loud). Love her accent though. She'll definately be top 10 material though, give her 3 years and she'll be top 10 I reckon. She's got the game, she seemed to struggle with her consistency today, her opponent just kept in points all the time and made her play one more shot and she got fustrated far too easily. Her movement is ok, nothing special but as she gets older she'll be better in that department. I thought she'd be very little and thin but it looks like she's bulked up alot in the past year since her junior Winbledon win. She's probably grown quite a bit as well, she'll be pretty big once she's 18, I think she's still got some growing to go.

I appreciate your description. I'm surprised to hear that the English Rose was swearing like a sailor at such a young age! Fascinating the different mental levels just like the physical.

[tenniscp]

Originally Posted by NandoMania

Shocked to see that Laura Robson lost to Ksenia Pervak 3-6, 1-6. I never expected that. Did anyone see or hear the match?

I am not really shocked. I saw her at Eddie Herr, where she lost early. She is still young, just turned 15 and is already having a great run. She won Wimbledon, finals of AO.

Next two years or three and we will see her making inroads on WTA.