Watching the ball: Not actually watching the ball throughout the whole flight path?

[Mansewerz]

I read a couple posts on here mentioning that you don't actually watch the ball all the way through to the strings. That you have to jump to the predicted contact point.

Then i've heard that you're supposed to watch it all the way into the strings (suggesting you watch it through the whole flight path)

Finally, i've heard it's about not jerking your head at contact?


So is it anyone one of these or a combo, etc?


I ask because I'm a shanker

[5263]

I very big on Fed's example of trying watch it all the way into the strings, whether it is possible or not. Also keeping the head still during the swing.

If you are sir shanks a lot, then you are probably looking up too early AND moving your head right before contact.
Good luck!

[Djokovicfan4life]

Frequent shanking could also be a result of simply going for more than you can control at your current level of play. I can't even count the number of times I've gotten a short ball to my forehand, only to miss horribly because I went for Federer-like racquet speed.

[5263]

Originally Posted by Djokovicfan4life

Frequent shanking could also be a result of simply going for more than you can control at your current level of play. I can't even count the number of times I've gotten a short ball to my forehand, only to miss horribly because I went for Federer-like racquet speed.

You don't think you jerked your head around a bit going for all that bat speed?

[Djokovicfan4life]

Originally Posted by 5263

You don't think you jerked your head around a bit going for all that bat speed?

Well, obviously I did, but I wouldn't have had I played smart and within my ability.

[Mansewerz]

Originally Posted by 5263

I very big on Fed's example of trying watch it all the way into the strings, whether it is possible or not. Also keeping the head still during the swing.

If you are sir shanks a lot, then you are probably looking up too early AND moving your head right before contact.
Good luck!

Originally Posted by Djokovicfan4life

Frequent shanking could also be a result of simply going for more than you can control at your current level of play. I can't even count the number of times I've gotten a short ball to my forehand, only to miss horribly because I went for Federer-like racquet speed.

Then a combo of both? I mean, if it's working for Fed, it should be right, no?

[phoenicks]

frequent shanking could also happen qwhen one have a steep swingpath or like to fan the ball. then, it helps to swing thorugh the ball more in this case.

[phoenicks]

as for jerking my head, that's quite true also, sometimes, I am too impatient and look at the where I want to place the ball in approach shot instead of quieting my head, as a result, I shank big time and choke !!!!

[Bagumbawalla]

If you have a ceiling fan, do you notice that, every once in a while, your eye just moves at the right speed so that, for an instant, you clearly see a blade in "frozen" motion- perfectly clear? This only happens if your eye moves at the same speed as the blade. "Jumping ahead" will still produce a blur.

This is what I think I am doing when I hit the ball. I may be wrong about what is physically happening, but I feel like I am freezing the ball in mid air like with a flash photograph.

So, let's put it this way, if you are not really focused on the ball- you don't have a chance of hitting it well.

The more you concentrate, focus on the ball, move with the ball, see the ball, no matter what really hapens visually, the better your chance of hitting it in the center of your strings.

But concentration is not easy. In fact it's boring. There are a thousand distractions- shadows on the court, the noisy kids walking by, a sudden, unrelated thought, your sock doesn't feel straight, your girlfriend said something strange the other day and hasn't called you since.

So, how do you stay focused on the boring little ball as it goes back and forth, back and forth when there is so much turmoil in your brain?

Ah, that's the question.

[phoenicks]

and once in a while, there's some hottie playing next to you, and you just can't help going over to hit with them or give them some free lesson if they are a beginner.

btw, great insight there, bagumbawalla. I often focus by watching my string more, but then again when a bombshell pass by, the distraction is just too big to resist, LOL

[Mansewerz]

Originally Posted by Bagumbawalla

If you have a ceiling fan, do you notice that, every once in a while, your eye just moves at the right speed so that, for an instant, you clearly see a blade in "frozen" motion- perfectly clear? This only happens if your eye moves at the same speed as the blade. "Jumping ahead" will still produce a blur.

This is what I think I am doing when I hit the ball. I may be wrong about what is physically happening, but I feel like I am freezing the ball in mid air like with a flash photograph.

So, let's put it this way, if you are not really focused on the ball- you don't have a chance of hitting it well.

The more you concentrate, focus on the ball, move with the ball, see the ball, no matter what really hapens visually, the better your chance of hitting it in the center of your strings.

But concentration is not easy. In fact it's boring. There are a thousand distractions- shadows on the court, the noisy kids walking by, a sudden, unrelated thought, your sock doesn't feel straight, your girlfriend said something strange the other day and hasn't called you since.

So, how do you stay focused on the boring little ball as it goes back and forth, back and forth when there is so much turmoil in your brain?

Ah, that's the question.

Focus it is. This isn't gonna be easy! LOL

[5263]

Originally Posted by Bagumbawalla

If you have a ceiling fan, do you notice that, every once in a while, your eye just moves at the right speed so that, for an instant, you clearly see a blade in "frozen" motion- perfectly clear? This only happens if your eye moves at the same speed as the blade. "Jumping ahead" will still produce a blur.

This is what I think I am doing when I hit the ball. I may be wrong about what is physically happening, but I feel like I am freezing the ball in mid air like with a flash photograph.

So, let's put it this way, if you are not really focused on the ball- you don't have a chance of hitting it well.

So, how do you stay focused on the boring little ball as it goes back and forth, back and forth when there is so much turmoil in your brain?

Ah, that's the question.

I like that ceiling fan example!

[ProfoundBasic]

Originally Posted by Bagumbawalla

If you have a ceiling fan, do you notice that, every once in a while, your eye just moves at the right speed so that, for an instant, you clearly see a blade in "frozen" motion- perfectly clear? This only happens if your eye moves at the same speed as the blade. "Jumping ahead" will still produce a blur.

This is what I think I am doing when I hit the ball. I may be wrong about what is physically happening, but I feel like I am freezing the ball in mid air like with a flash photograph.

So, let's put it this way, if you are not really focused on the ball- you don't have a chance of hitting it well.

The more you concentrate, focus on the ball, move with the ball, see the ball, no matter what really hapens visually, the better your chance of hitting it in the center of your strings.

But concentration is not easy. In fact it's boring. There are a thousand distractions- shadows on the court, the noisy kids walking by, a sudden, unrelated thought, your sock doesn't feel straight, your girlfriend said something strange the other day and hasn't called you since.

So, how do you stay focused on the boring little ball as it goes back and forth, back and forth when there is so much turmoil in your brain?

Ah, that's the question.

Excellent point!

I don't remember who have said "just hit the darn ball."

[J011yroger]

All I can tell you is that I watch the ball all the way into contact and look at the spot where it was after it is gone.

I don't know how eyes work, and I don't know what everyone else does.

That is just what the pictures say I do.



J

[AlphaCDjkr]

Originally Posted by Bagumbawalla

If you have a ceiling fan, do you notice that, every once in a while, your eye just moves at the right speed so that, for an instant, you clearly see a blade in "frozen" motion- perfectly clear? This only happens if your eye moves at the same speed as the blade. "Jumping ahead" will still produce a blur.

This is what I think I am doing when I hit the ball. I may be wrong about what is physically happening, but I feel like I am freezing the ball in mid air like with a flash photograph.

So, let's put it this way, if you are not really focused on the ball- you don't have a chance of hitting it well.

The more you concentrate, focus on the ball, move with the ball, see the ball, no matter what really hapens visually, the better your chance of hitting it in the center of your strings.

But concentration is not easy. In fact it's boring. There are a thousand distractions- shadows on the court, the noisy kids walking by, a sudden, unrelated thought, your sock doesn't feel straight, your girlfriend said something strange the other day and hasn't called you since.

So, how do you stay focused on the boring little ball as it goes back and forth, back and forth when there is so much turmoil in your brain?

Ah, that's the question.

I love your example; I once spent all night trying to sleep, staring at my ceiling fan, and before I realized it my eyes were actually following a blade consistently. I was thinking, "Whoa, this is cool. I can just see it going around and around, and it won't blur!" However, I was watching the fan subconsciously, and I wasn't really TRYING to watch it. The moment I actually realized what I was doing, I tried intentionally focusing on the blades, and I couldn't see it anymore.

It reminds me of playing tennis as well, now that I think about it. Most of the time, your subconscious knows exactly what its doing; if you want to hit there, your arm will guide the ball there mostly on its own. However, if you start thinking like... "Ok, I have to hit the ball on the rise. Don't forget the topspin. Remember that the shot is shallow so you'll have to hit a bit higher than normal. The net player might try to poach it, so maybe I should hit it a little harder. Watch out for the baseliner..." Your game tends to just fall apart.

I think that someone's best tennis game comes when they don't try thinking too hard, and they just play how they normally play and enjoy themselves. When you get something right and you repeatedly practice it, it will become locked in muscle memory and you won't have to think about it anymore.

Er.. thats how it works for me though.

I don't know whether or not I look at the ball; these things never troubled me. HOWEVER I'm just about to go play tennis with some friends, I'll go see what I do and I'll get back to you.

[matchmaker]

Well, watching it until it hits the strings is virtually impossible. But focussing on the ball long enough is very important. I have often noticed that taking my eyes off the ball just a fraction too soon ends up in netted or imprecise balls. Often you get distracted by your opponent whom you are following with your peripheral vision, it is good to know where your opponent is and to scoop an empty space or wrong positioning on his side but when you focus on that you loose the ball out of sight. So yes, it is very important to look at the ball almost until making contact.

[SystemicAnomaly]

Originally Posted by 5263

I very big on Fed's example of trying watch it all the way into the strings, whether it is possible or not. Also keeping the head still during the swing.

If you are sir shanks a lot, then you are probably looking up too early AND moving your head right before contact.
Good luck!

Sorry, the first part of this is not quite correct. Roger does not try to track the ball all the way into the strings. Federer's eyes do a "jump-ahead" saccade as the ball approaches (closely) to his contact zone. There is no possible way the Fed or anyone else can follow the ball all the way into the strings on most shots -- our smooth pursuit tracking system simply cannot keep up as the ball gets very close to us -- the ball is traversing across our field of vision too rapidly for smooth pursuit, hence the "jump" saccade to the contact zone is employed.

I have studied a couple of high-speed videos of Federer hitting a FH stroke and was able to detect the visual saccade as the ball got close to his hitting zone. I posted at least one of these videos in another similar thread within the past 6-9 months.

[SystemicAnomaly]

This saccadic eye movement is used by elite athletes in many sports. Take a look at the work of Professor Joan Vickers, a Canadian scientist who has been studying gaze and attention of elite and amateur athletes for more than 2 decades. She has developed what she calls the "Quiet Eye" technique for training amateur athletes to use their eyes the way that elite athletes do. She has also trained Olympic and other elite athletes to improve these visual-mental skills.

Facing a 95 mph fastball, a professional baseball batter is unable to see (track) the ball when it gets to within 15 feet of him. The batter will track the ball from the pitcher's hand until it reaches the point where it exceeds his smooth pursuit tracking ablility. If he decided to swing at the ball, his head turn to the expected contact point and his eyes perform a "jump saccade". Just like Federer or Nadal, the pro batter keeps his head still and his eyes fixated on the contact zone. The head/eyes will stay "quiet" until the bat has swung thru.

Elite cricket players do an interesting variation of this. In cricket, the ball is pitched (bowled) in such a manner that it bounces before it reaches the batsman. The elite cricket batsman will track the ball as it leave the bowler's (pitcher's) hand. He will track it for a while in order to determine the bounce location. Before the ball gets to that bounce location, the batsman's eyes perform a jump saccade to the bounce point -- his eyes will "lie in wait" for the ball to bounce...

Tennis linespersons are trained to do the very same thing any time a ball appears to be headed toward their line of interest (like the baseline, for instance). The linesman will quickly turn their head and perform a saccade, fixating on the outside edge of the line -- "lying in wait" for the ball to come into their foveal (central) vision. If the linesperson is moving their head or moving their eyes as the ball is bouncing, their ability to accurately make a correct call is significantly hampered.

Back to the cricket batsman:

Once the pitched ball bounces, the batsman will once again resume a smooth pursuit of the ball for a short time in order to determine the contact point. He then performs a 2nd jump saccade to the expected contact point. His head & eyes remain "quiet", fixated on the contact zone, as he swings.

I have tried a similar sequence for tennis. I do not know if elite tennis players do this, but I suspect that many of them might do so for certain shots. I will sometimes try the "cricket" technique on serve returns. I track the ball from the server's racket until it gets to the net. At some point, before or after crossing the net, I perform a jump saccade to the expected bounce location -- "lying in wait" for the bounce. Upon seeing the bounce, my eyes resume a smooth pursuit of the ball until the ball gets too close to track. At that time, I perform another jump saccade to the expected contact zone, keeping my head very still -until my racket has nearly completed its forward swing.

Has anyone else been aware of using this double saccade technique for half-volleys or other groundstrokes?

.

[J011yroger]

Moreso playing the net in dubs whilst my partner is serving.

I fixate on the service line where I expect the ball to land.

Then after the bounce, jump to the returner, and then resume tracking as the ball leaves the returners racquet.

When I consiously focus on doing this I am able to opportunity poach more often, and cut down the DTL pass off the return even if I don't make the volley through the hole, when I focus like this I get a racquet on the down the line pass 9/10 times.

J

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ Xcellent xample.