Is this unsportsmanlike?

[abbeytxs]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

But they're playing serve and volley, so you hit it right to them? This gives them trouble? I don't see why they'd be a S&Ver is they can't even handle a ball right at them. Anyway, if it works, go for it. If it's a female player, (or even a male), and they say, "Hey, no fair!", then don't do it. But after this point whatever you're playing, it isn't tennis.

Wait... so if I just say "Hey, no fair!" my opponents aren't allowed to hit at me anymore?! Sweet! How did I miss that in the rulebook?

[beernutz]

Originally Posted by heninfan99

This was covered in another post but to recap:
It's a wonderful tactic and works especially well against frail older women. ALWAYS hit a person when possible. You will win 90% of your points.
Also, let out a loud grunt or howl as you do this. It adds to the intimidation factor. Then pump your fist in the air immediately after winning the point.

You either need to include some kind of sarcasm alert in your post or quit being such a jerk.

If you are in fact using sarcasm to voice disapproval with the tactic of hitting directly at an opponent I would really like to hear what your objections are.

Personally I like people to hit directly at me. If they don't how else am I going to get better at hitting those types of shots?

When playing I also generally follow the Wee Willie Keeler suggestion to "hit 'em where they ain't" but I also think hitting directly at an opponent is a perfectly acceptable choice as well, as long as you aren't attempting to head hunt and that they are ready for your shot. I wouldn't for example intentionally hit someone in the back who had turned away from the net.

Edited because I attributed the quote incorrectly.

[travelerb]

Doesn't sound unsportsmanlike to me.

Unsportsmanlike would be hitting it at an opponent who is standing out of bounds, even if your strategy is to have it hit them before hitting the ground to win the point.

[blakesq]

I disagree with coyfish. YOu may have an option to hit a "clear winner" away from the net guy, but there are many reasons for not taking that option, it might be a harder shot, their ability to run down any ball may be superior to hitting back a body shot; etc etc.

Originally Posted by coyfish

Its only unsportsmanlike if you have a clear winner but choose to hit it right at the opponent.

Other than that its a legit way to win the point.

[Power Player]

I always hit right at a net rusher just to see how they handle it. If they can't deal, I keep doing it until they stay back. If they can, I try and hit heavy topspin shots that will drop next to their forehand side.

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by abbeytxs

Wait... so if I just say "Hey, no fair!" my opponents aren't allowed to hit at me anymore?! Sweet! How did I miss that in the rulebook?

It's not a rule, it's just advice. Especially if they have a violent boyfriend nearby. Oftentimes people suppose you can't (shouldn't) hit at a female player up at the net. If that's wrong, I'll play that way. But then it should be understood that whatever game we're playing, it's not tennis.

[abbeytxs]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

It's not a rule, it's just advice. Especially if they have a violent boyfriend nearby. Oftentimes people suppose you can't (shouldn't) hit at a female player up at the net. If that's wrong, I'll play that way. But then it should be understood that whatever game we're playing, it's not tennis.

I don't know what level you play at, but I would say that 90% of the high 3.5/4.0 on up women are not going to have any issue at all if you hit at them at the net. In fact, in my experience at that level, most of the women are better net players than the men.
I also have yet to see any woman come play a mixed match with a "violent boyfriend nearby". Where exactly are you playing?

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by abbeytxs

I don't know what level you play at, but I would say that 90% of the high 3.5/4.0 on up women are not going to have any issue at all if you hit at them at the net. In fact, in my experience at that level, most of the women are better net players than the men.
I also have yet to see any woman come play a mixed match with a "violent boyfriend nearby". Where exactly are you playing?

Arizona. (See my profile). Not league matches, just get requests to play from people I'm networking with. One day, a woman tells me that last time we played, I'd hit her in the ankle, and left a bruise. I didn't remember this. She showed me the bruise, to incriminate me, I suppose. My thinking was that if it hit her ankle then I was legitimately aiming at her feet, not trying to hurt her. Still, during the warm up she hit me just to get even. I got the message, when playing with females, you've got to aim away from them even if this costs you the point. This really isn't tennis anymore, but why fight it? I don't aim at people, but I don't feel I should risk losing a point by aiming away from them either. But I can accept that some people just don't agree with me. So I don't play normally when there's women on the court.

Oh, I've been rated at 3.5. That was a while ago, I haven't improved much since then, so I'd say I'm still a 3.5. In my experience I certainly wouldn't say that the women play the net better, curious.

[Mick]

it's fair game, if you don't mind it when the other guy returns the favor and does the same to you.

[120mphBodyServe]

Bah. If I'm playing a serve & volleyer and he's kicking my ***, I'm not going to take that!!!
So stand a metre or 2 inside the baseline and just aim to make clean contact with the ball even if it is a block shot, using the pace of the serve. On kick serves you can't really block those, so just swing out and crunch the ball.. If you can...

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

it's fair game, if you don't mind it when the other guy returns the favor and does the same to you.

It's like this; if you turn your back to your opponent when he's about to hit an overhead from close range, he shouldn't hit you. Since your position concedes the point, he should just block it over for an easy point. But if I'm standing there, saying "Bring it on!" by my body language, then to expect him to aim away from me, while I, at the same time, do all I can to still win the point...that's asking too much. One time, this guy was so near, I felt I had no chance at the return, so I ducked and covered up. I still got nailed with his 100 mph shot! Since I was already conceeding the point, I thought he could've just blocked it over. But if a person believes the game is better played with a rule that isn't in the rulebook, that's ok, as long as you share this belief before the match starts. Don't assume something is widely accepted when, (as this thread proves), it is not.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

It's like this; if you turn your back to your opponent when he's about to hit an overhead from close range, he shouldn't hit you. Since your position concedes the point, he should just block it over for an easy point. But if I'm standing there, saying "Bring it on!" by my body language, then to expect him to aim away from me, while I, at the same time, do all I can to still win the point...that's asking too much. One time, this guy was so near, I felt I had no chance at the return, so I ducked and covered up. I still got nailed with his 100 mph shot! Since I was already conceeding the point, I thought he could've just blocked it over. But if a person believes the game is better played with a rule that isn't in the rulebook, that's ok, as long as you share this belief before the match starts. Don't assume something is widely accepted when, (as this thread proves), it is not.

This is what the OP wrote:
"For example: the server serves and comes in to volley. I return the first shot at their feet. They then pop up their second shot somewhere between the service line and the baseline. I then hit my next shot DIRECTLY at them with a great deal of pace. 90% of the time they are unable to hit the next shot, and sometimes it actually hits them in the body."

I was thinking, it would not be difficult for an accomplished player to hit a short ball to bring someone up to the net and then hit the next shot directly at him with a great deal of pace. So, this person should not chase short balls if he can't handle fast balls hitting at directly at him. He should just concede the points.

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

This is what the OP wrote:
"For example: the server serves and comes in to volley. I return the first shot at their feet. They then pop up their second shot somewhere between the service line and the baseline. I then hit my next shot DIRECTLY at them with a great deal of pace. 90% of the time they are unable to hit the next shot, and sometimes it actually hits them in the body."

I was thinking, it would not be difficult for an accomplished player to hit a short ball to bring someone up to the net and then hit the next shot directly at him with a great deal of pace. So, this person should not chase short balls if he can't handle fast balls hitting at directly at him. He should just concede the points.

Back in the day the popular book on tennis was Vic Braden's "Tennis for the Future". He discusses how to beat a pusher, (he used the term "dinker"). He said to bring him to the net, and then blast a shot right at him. So he didn't think it was unsportsmanlike. And many people hesitate when it comes right at them, they have to think, "forehand or backhand?". That hesitation, combined with plenty of pace makes for a winner against a poseur net player. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[stapletonj]

WAR STORY TIME:

I was playing a club type tournament back in the late 80s, doubles.
3.5 or 4.0 division if I recall.

I'm about 6'6" 220 lbs at the time and get a short soft overhead at the net.

The opponent on the duece side runs towards me (still on his side of the net) and I mean RIGHT TOWARDS ME, waving his arms and racquet and yelling at the top of his lungs, stopping about 20 inches away still yelling and waving his raquet and arms right in front of me. (I told you it was a very short soft slow overhead, he actually had time to do all this)

The temptation to just bean him was incredible, he was being such a jerk.

I just caught the ball with my hand and claimed the point. He went berserk while his partner just stood there. He eventually calmed down and conceded the point. (after a little encouragment form the tournament referee).

Very next pont (it was my serve) FOOT FAULT ! It took about 1/10 of a second for me to call for a line judge. The Director came out and asked if he really wanted to play like this. He shut up at that point and we went on from there.

I guess the point is, 30 years later I remember the guy being a jerk. Play hard, don't whine when the ball is aimed at you if you are still trying to play the point, and relax, it's just a game. None of us on this board are ever goign to make a living at this stuff.

[Cindysphinx]

Heh, heh. I have a similar story, Stapelton.

I was doing drills with teammates. My partner and I were at net, and the opponents in the drill were one-up, one-back. The deep player has having trouble hitting clean passes, so she was lobbing. Many of her lobs were falling at the perfect place for me to hit my overhead, and for once I was actually hitting decent ones.

I noticed that the net player wasn't reacting at all to my overheads, so I just hit them back to the deep player. Hey, it's just practice and I wouldn't want to bean a teammate.

During the break, I mentioned to the net player that she needed to be careful because I would have slammed some of those balls in her direction in a real match, and she needed to be alert to the net player's overhead preparation so she could fall back and contest the overhead.

She said she doesn't think you should back up when someone is hitting an overhead. Instead, she thinks it is a good idea to move forward and close the net. She says getting really close to the net will distract the smasher and make her miss. She says she has used this tactic successfully in 7.0 and 8.0 mixed.

I was, um. . . . speechless, you could say.

So any of you guys who are hitting away from the women in mixed are totally being played for suckers!

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by abbeytxs

I don't know what level you play at, but I would say that 90% of the high 3.5/4.0 on up women are not going to have any issue at all if you hit at them at the net.

Agreed, I've never seen a woman complain about shots coming at them at the net. There's not much they say can say if they do have a problem. Thats why they have 5.0 mixed for people that can't take the heat.

In fact, in my experience at that level, most of the women are better net players than the men.

Couldn't disagree more. What I've seen is that most of the women spend too much time at the baseline or are too passive at the net.

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

I got the message, when playing with females, you've got to aim away from them even if this costs you the point. This really isn't tennis anymore, but why fight it?

How about not playing with whiners?

It's like this; if you turn your back to your opponent when he's about to hit an overhead from close range, he shouldn't hit you. Since your position concedes the point, he should just block it over for an easy point. But if I'm standing there, saying "Bring it on!" by my body language, then to expect him to aim away from me, while I, at the same time, do all I can to still win the point...that's asking too much.

No he should hit it as hard as he wants. By conceding the point, you are getting out of the way and letting him have his winner. He shouldn't block a weak shot because you decide you aren't going to go for it.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by raiden031

Couldn't disagree more. What I've seen is that most of the women spend too much time at the baseline or are too passive at the net.

Hmmm. Well, on my 7.0 mixed team, you could compare the 3.5 men and 3.5 women. (The best net players are the 4.0 men, but then you're comparing apples and oranges). I'd say on balance that more of the 3.5 men will try to play the net than the 3.5 women, although only one will ever S&V..

But that doesn't tell you much. One reason the 3.5 women don't play the net is because the 3.5 guy doesn't want them to. The unspoken (and sometimes spoken) message from the men is "I got this, Li'l lady. You just let those balls come back through to me and I'll crush 'em for winners." I have certainly had male partners tell me this. I've also had male partners make it quite clear that they didn't want me attempting to come to net.

Now, there are exceptions, and there is one delightful 3.5 guy who is always encouraging me to come to net when we partner. But he is definitely the exception. Most of the guys are desperate to hold their serve, and they don't believe they need the woman's help and don't think she can provide any. As for the opposing 3.5 or 3.0 women in mixed, they don't do anything other than stand at net and volley whatever balls they cannot avoid volleying.

So let's be careful not to send messages to our female partners that they should stay back and be passive at net and then complain when they do exactly that.

[120mphBodyServe]

Originally Posted by stapletonj

WAR STORY TIME:

I was playing a club type tournament back in the late 80s, doubles.
3.5 or 4.0 division if I recall.

I'm about 6'6" 220 lbs at the time and get a short soft overhead at the net.

The opponent on the duece side runs towards me (still on his side of the net) and I mean RIGHT TOWARDS ME, waving his arms and racquet and yelling at the top of his lungs, stopping about 20 inches away still yelling and waving his raquet and arms right in front of me. (I told you it was a very short soft slow overhead, he actually had time to do all this)

The temptation to just bean him was incredible, he was being such a jerk.

I just caught the ball with my hand and claimed the point. He went berserk while his partner just stood there. He eventually calmed down and conceded the point. (after a little encouragment form the tournament referee).

Very next pont (it was my serve) FOOT FAULT ! It took about 1/10 of a second for me to call for a line judge. The Director came out and asked if he really wanted to play like this. He shut up at that point and we went on from there.

I guess the point is, 30 years later I remember the guy being a jerk. Play hard, don't whine when the ball is aimed at you if you are still trying to play the point, and relax, it's just a game. None of us on this board are ever goign to make a living at this stuff.

Old coach of mine did something similiar to me back when i was playing social doubles. I had an easy smash and i was really close to the net and he basically got in my face... I could have broken his teeth/nose/face if I had clobbered it like I should have...
Never respected him after that.... He turned out to be an *****hole...
Got him back during a club tourney we were having, and I broke a string, so he restrung my racquet.. This was on a Sunday... Never paid him.

[SiggeZ]

Originally Posted by Homey

I want you guys honest opinion on whether this is unsportsman like, or is perfectly legitimate.

Thanks!

"Ivan Lendl used to go for the guy" and so should you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xAPw...eature=related
Enjoy!