Clay Court GOAT - Page 61

Dan Lobb · 10-28-2012, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

Ellis Park hosted the biggest hard court, cement court event for many many years, so in SAF players start their tennis careers on hard hard, similar to California.

The British always refeered to their clay court championships as hard courts, see Bournemouth, considered one of the world´s premiere cc events till 1970.

I don´t knoe about Australians, they seem to have no cc all round the country¡

In Australia, the dark shale clay, referred to in Australia as "hardcourt", was traditionally the most common surface, cheaper to build and maintain than grass, so the great generation of Aussie players, Sedgman, Hoad, Rosewall, Emerson, Cooper, Anderson, Laver, Newcombe, Roche, grew up playing on "hardcourt" clay.
This explains why the Australian players did so well on the European clay court circuit, and won so many French and Italian titles.
The Americans, especially the Californians, grew up playing on fast cement, and were at a disadvantage on the European clay.
The Australian Hardcourt Championship was a major national title in Australia.

kiki · 10-29-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

In Australia, the dark shale clay, referred to in Australia as "hardcourt", was traditionally the most common surface, cheaper to build and maintain than grass, so the great generation of Aussie players, Sedgman, Hoad, Rosewall, Emerson, Cooper, Anderson, Laver, Newcombe, Roche, grew up playing on "hardcourt" clay.
This explains why the Australian players did so well on the European clay court circuit, and won so many French and Italian titles.
The Americans, especially the Californians, grew up playing on fast cement, and were at a disadvantage on the European clay.
The Australian Hardcourt Championship was a major national title in Australia.

I didn´t really know it although now that youm mention it, Laver in his book also mentioned some bricky courts aroun Rockhampton and the Queensland, where he grew up, and so did Emerson.You might be right but, then again, why there´s never been a great cc event there? why did Australians chose the Sidney Indoors on carpet to be the second biggest tournament?

Dan Lobb · 10-30-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

I didn´t really know it although now that youm mention it, Laver in his book also mentioned some bricky courts aroun Rockhampton and the Queensland, where he grew up, and so did Emerson.You might be right but, then again, why there´s never been a great cc event there? why did Australians chose the Sidney Indoors on carpet to be the second biggest tournament?

The Australian Hardcourt WAS a major clay court event, a true national title.

BobbyOne · 10-30-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

The Australian Hardcourt WAS a major clay court event, a true national title.

But mostly only Aussies participated.

Dan Lobb · 10-30-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

But mostly only Aussies participated.

Including Hoad, Rosewall, Bromwich, Rose, etc. The toughest national lineup on clay on the planet.

hoodjem · 03-15-2013, 07:16 AM

Here we go--

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Rosewall
4. Wilding
5. Cochet
6. Lendl
7. Wilander
8. Lacoste
9. Kuerten
10. Laver
11. Borotra
12. Drobny
13. Vilas
14. Santana
15. Bruguera
16. Pietrangeli
17. Courier
18. Muster
19. Federer
20. Kodes
21. von Cramm
22. Emerson
23. Nastase
25. Trabert
26. Orantes
27. Panatta
28. Agassi
29. Connors
30. Nusslein
31. Tilden
32. Gimeno
33. Frank Parker
34. Roche
35. Sven Davidson
36. Jack Crawford
37. Fred Perry
38. J.E. Patty
39. Decugis
40. Segura

(Latest version, as of 10-23-12.)

As of 3-15-2013, I believe Djokovic should find a place on here now.

BobbyOne · 03-15-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Here we go--
As of 3-15-2013, I believe Djokovic should find a place on here now.

hoodjem, I would omit Emerson. I also would rank higher Nüsslein, Gimeno and Segura.

forzamilan90 · 03-15-2013, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Here we go--
As of 3-15-2013, I believe Djokovic should find a place on here now.

Based on what? I love the man, but at the current stage in his career it'd be premature putting him in such a list.

kiki · 03-18-2013, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Here we go--
As of 3-15-2013, I believe Djokovic should find a place on here now.

Santana,Bruguera and Kodes should AT LEAST be at Vilas level
Wilding, as great as he was, did not get too tough opposition...

hoodjem · 03-18-2013, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

Wilding, as great as he was, did not get too tough opposition. . .

Oh yea! Where's the video?

hoodjem · 03-18-2013, 08:27 AM

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Rosewall
4. Wilding
5. Cochet
6. Lendl
7. Wilander
8. Lacoste
9. Kuerten
10. Laver
11. Borotra
12. Drobny
13. Vilas
14. Santana
15. Bruguera
16. Pietrangeli
17. Courier
18. Muster
19. Federer
20. Kodes
21. von Cramm
22. Nusslein
23. Nastase
25. Trabert
26. Orantes
27. Panatta
28. Gimeno
29. Agassi
30. Connors
31. Tilden
32. Frank Parker
33. Roche
34. Sven Davidson
35. Jack Crawford
36. Segura
37. Fred Perry
38. J.E. Patty
39. Decugis
40. Emerson

hoodjem · 03-18-2013, 08:39 AM

So, no Djokovic . . . yet.

BobbyOne · 03-18-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

Santana,Bruguera and Kodes should AT LEAST be at Vilas level
Wilding, as great as he was, did not get too tough opposition...

kiki, I believe that these three were not as strong as world No.1 player Vilas (1977). I agree regarding Wilding.

BobbyOne · 03-18-2013, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

1. Nadal
2. Borg
3. Rosewall
4. Wilding
5. Cochet
6. Lendl
7. Wilander
8. Lacoste
9. Kuerten
10. Laver
11. Borotra
12. Drobny
13. Vilas
14. Santana
15. Bruguera
16. Pietrangeli
17. Courier
18. Muster
19. Federer
20. Kodes
21. von Cramm
22. Emerson
23. Nastase
25. Trabert
26. Orantes
27. Panatta
28. Agassi
29. Connors
30. Nusslein
31. Tilden
32. Gimeno
33. Frank Parker
34. Segura
35. Roche
36. Sven Davidson
37. Jack Crawford
38. Fred Perry
39. J.E. Patty
40. Decugis

hoodjem, I cannot agree that Nüsslein is much lower ranked than von Cramm (or even at all).

kiki · 03-18-2013, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

kiki, I believe that these three were not as strong as world No.1 player Vilas (1977). I agree regarding Wilding.

They all won twice at Paris
I Agree Vilas 77 run at RG & FH is a great achievement
Maybe Vilas and Santana are a bit ahead Bruguera@Kodes on clay

robow7 · 03-18-2013, 10:05 AM

Nice list, though many are unknown to me (admittingly not a student of tennis pre 50's) but .......Vilas was awfully good to be listed at 13 considering the clay court streak he ran up. 2nd only to Borg during a Golden Age of great clay courters. Just my opinion of course.

forzamilan90 · 03-18-2013, 10:32 AM

How does one rank Decugis?

BobbyOne · 03-18-2013, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

They all won twice at Paris
I Agree Vilas 77 run at RG & FH is a great achievement
Maybe Vilas and Santana are a bit ahead Bruguera@Kodes on clay

kiki, Santana was claycourt No.1 in amateur times only, Vilas was No.1 in open era...

kiki · 03-18-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forzamilan90

How does one rank Decugis?

Good remark, he seems to be the most unknown of past champions

kiki · 03-18-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

kiki, Santana was claycourt No.1 in amateur times only, Vilas was No.1 in open era...

And both won Rome as well
Close call IMO
If you feel Nusslein is underrated....Imagine Santana!

03-18-2013, 08:27 AM	#1211
hoodjem Legend Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bierlandt Posts: 9,964	1. Nadal 2. Borg 3. Rosewall 4. Wilding 5. Cochet 6. Lendl 7. Wilander 8. Lacoste 9. Kuerten 10. Laver 11. Borotra 12. Drobny 13. Vilas 14. Santana 15. Bruguera 16. Pietrangeli 17. Courier 18. Muster 19. Federer 20. Kodes 21. von Cramm 22. Nusslein 23. Nastase 25. Trabert 26. Orantes 27. Panatta 28. Gimeno 29. Agassi 30. Connors 31. Tilden 32. Frank Parker 33. Roche 34. Sven Davidson 35. Jack Crawford 36. Segura 37. Fred Perry 38. J.E. Patty 39. Decugis 40. Emerson __________________ The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 03-19-2013 at 06:33 AM.

03-18-2013, 08:39 AM	#1212
hoodjem Legend Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bierlandt Posts: 9,964	So, no Djokovic . . . yet. __________________ The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 03-19-2013 at 06:38 AM.

03-18-2013, 10:32 AM	#1217
forzamilan90 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: The Black Lodge Posts: 3,961	How does one rank Decugis? __________________ The Black Lodge Military Visionary at your service...

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