Was I really out of line here?

[beernutz]

Originally Posted by seleswannabe

Just got back and wow, I did not expect such a response from my post. Just wanted to make a couple of points:
*This "match" was the last 10 minutes of our team drill, with two coaches watching. Our coach and one other pro were watching. She never stopped to asked for help and they never offered any.
*Our coach is notorious for setting lineups based on the outcomes of these end of practice matches. We frequently discuss this as a team, so we "all" take them seriously, not just me.
*Her comments annoyed me but are pretty much the norm for her. Four different team members have personally told me and our coach they flat out refuse to play with her.
*sureshs - I like your comment about bragging about my serve Honestly, if you saw my serve you would probably fall over laughing.

Knowing all this plus what you originally wrote you have kind of taken the fun out of the question as you are obviously in the right and she obviously has issues.

The only debate to me is whether you should have kept quiet as you apparently did, or not. The 'or not' has many different options from just doing a Nelson haha in her face http://www.eventsounds.com/wav/haha.wav to letting her have it with both barrels http://www.reelwavs.com/movies/sound...acket/ugly.wav.
Based on what you've said about her I don't think a confrontation is going to solve anything.

[kylebarendrick]

The part I find most amusing is that this time it was the pusher that was complaining about their opponent's style of play not being fun. Usually it is the other way around!

[Gemini]

Originally Posted by JavierLW

Exactly, some people are obsessed with how everyone perceives them because they dont realize that nobody cares..... (or they are so busy rattling on about other people that they assume everyone else does the same....)

Still wouldnt kick her off the team though. Players spend around $65 to join some of these teams plus whatever they paid to help pay for courts, balls, etc..... It's more of a business then anything.

The way I figure it is Im really careful to avoid picking up players that act like that, but if I get one, that's my fault, Im just going to have to put up with it.

(and it's not really all that awful as long as you understand where they are coming from)

I hear what you're saying. As a captain, to hear a player make that remark about practice for "fun" concerns me though. That tells me that every time she comes out to practice, she's not trying to develop as a player and she's completely content to stay in that safe place win or lose. Granted, she wins a fair bit with her style of game in doubles at her level but I would rather have someone who wins less with an attitude of building his/her game for the future than someone who wins consistently but is essentially stuck because they refuse to develop his/her skills.

I recruit players that have the basics and can compete well on their given levels but are willing to take a chance/risk and add a new skill. Overall, it helps us move forward as a team.

[seleswannabe]

Regarding kicking her off the team....I wouldn't do that, especially in this situation. We are in the same circle of friends and our daughters are friends from school. Also, at my club, the captain is more of the organizer while the coaches are the ones who "boot" people off teams. I think it's for good reason.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Gemini

I hear what you're saying. As a captain, to hear a player make that remark about practice for "fun" concerns me though. That tells me that every time she comes out to practice, she's not trying to develop as a player and she's completely content to stay in that safe place win or lose. Granted, she wins a fair bit with her style of game in doubles at her level but I would rather have someone who wins less with an attitude of building his/her game for the future than someone who wins consistently but is essentially stuck because they refuse to develop his/her skills.

I recruit players that have the basics and can compete well on their given levels but are willing to take a chance/risk and add a new skill. Overall, it helps us move forward as a team.

Ninety percent of the people I know fit this description and are happy with how they play and have no desire to develop as a player. It's very hard to fill a team with those who comprise the other 10% . . .

[maverick66]

So what if she got mad and made a petty comment. You play your tennis. Its not your job to make others look good. All you can do is play as well as you can and let others worry about there own game. She got killed and her ego got hurt. By saying something other then asking the pro what she could have done differently she is showing a lack of wanting to improve. If i was the pro the score wouldnt have been my issue but where she put the blame.

[seleswannabe]

^^Agreed Cindy. At 3.0 you pretty much take what you can get and hope to have enough people to play. Sad but true.

[cak]

The only way you might possibly consider what you did out of line is if you are seriously short singles players and needed to stroke her ego to keep her on your available roster. Otherwise I think you were right. (Unfortunately, any team I've ever been on begs for singles players, and if you happen to beat one you win their spot, no matter how much better you are at doubles.)

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by cak

The only way you might possibly consider what you did out of line is if you are seriously short singles players and needed to stroke her ego to keep her on your available roster.

So in a dilemma over losing a meet and taking her crap you'd worry about losing a tennis meet? I wouldn't care much about winning or losing some adult, league thing, (esp. for 3.0s). I wouldn't take her garbage just so I don't lose some 'meet'. My opinion/values, anyway.

[10sfreak]

seleswannabe, I don't think you did anything wrong at all. Furthermore, I think your teammate was way out of line.

[cak]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

So in a dilemma over losing a meet and taking her crap you'd worry about losing a tennis meet? I wouldn't care much about winning or losing some adult, league thing, (esp. for 3.0s). I wouldn't take her garbage just so I don't lose some 'meet'. My opinion/values, anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean by a tennis 'meet'. The dilemma is fielding a team for a season, which is up to 14 regular season team matches. Sometimes the captain finds putting up with the petty, egotistical player is worth it. Sometimes not. The question is, does she need the player. If not you certainly don't have to baby her.

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by cak

Sometimes the captain finds putting up with the petty, egotistical player is worth it. Sometimes not. The question is, does she need the player.

Can't see how you'd need any of them. It's only 3.0 tennis. No money or prestige.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

Can't see how you'd need any of them. It's only 3.0 tennis. No money or prestige.

Yes, but the same can be said of men's 4.5 tennis. No money, no prestige. Yet people will come to blows over it. Level has nothing to do with it.

Either you have to take some crap to avoid defaults, or you have enough people that you don't.

[Gemini]

Originally Posted by seleswannabe

^^Agreed Cindy. At 3.0 you pretty much take what you can get and hope to have enough people to play. Sad but true.

I've never found that to be the case. I'm not sure where you and Cindy are seles..but I've been able to find lots of players for respective teams that are looking to improve from the 3.0 level here in the Atlanta. I don't play on that level but I've helped build several men's teams with ambitious players because I'm actively "recruiting" players for various teams with certain "character traits". I leave the captaining to the captains but help them find players that have an A-gameplan but are more than willing to work on their B & C-gameplans to become better players.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Gemini

I've never found that to be the case. I'm not sure where you and Cindy are seles..but I've been able to find lots of players for respective teams that are looking to improve from the 3.0 level here in the Atlanta. I don't play on that level but I've helped build several men's teams with ambitious players because I'm actively "recruiting" players for various teams with certain "character traits". I leave the captaining to the captains but help them find players that have an A-gameplan but are more than willing to work on their B & C-gameplans to become better players.

That makes you very fortunate indeed.

I find that people are, well, busy. They have little kids. They have limited funds. They have husbands who aren't keen on the stay-at-home wife dashing off to play tennis and leaving them home alone to take care of the kids after a day of work. They are at whatever level they are at, and they see no reason to kill themselves to get to the next level, where they will simply have to play stronger players.

And they sometimes conclude that, despite the instruction they are getting and the practice they are doing, they still don't play any better or differently.

It takes a ton of commitment to improve in tennis. I can understand why people decide not to bother, but it makes it hard to find players who will try to improve.

I'm starting up a new 7.5 combo team in the fall. So far, we have no 4.0 players, so it will be tough sledding. I have a few 3.5s who take clinics and do seem to want to improve and are willing to practice. Hopefully, this core group will improve and become the 4.0 players that the team needs.

[seleswannabe]

Originally Posted by cak

The only way you might possibly consider what you did out of line is if you are seriously short singles players and needed to stroke her ego to keep her on your available roster.

We've got 4-5 five people who play well at singles, so this is not a concern.

Gemini - I am in Michigan and Tennis is pretty popular here. We have 2 daytime 3.0 teams, a 3.0 Working Women's and a 3.0 Senior team. Same setup for 3.5. I think some of the problem is supply/demand here.

[bluegrasser]

Originally Posted by drakulie

Kick her off the team.

Good luck.

It really depends on the personality of the team - IOW, I've been on USTA teams that were all about the winning & others that were all about the beer after the match.. Lately seeing how my game has went to the toilet, it's about the beer.
I think on a team when you're playing sets there should be communication between points, work on weaknesses with each other, talk... it's a team, right ?
That is, unless your competing for seeding on the team, then let the hair down a little... both barrels.

[Gemini]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

That makes you very fortunate indeed.

I find that people are, well, busy. They have little kids. They have limited funds. They have husbands who aren't keen on the stay-at-home wife dashing off to play tennis and leaving them home alone to take care of the kids after a day of work. They are at whatever level they are at, and they see no reason to kill themselves to get to the next level, where they will simply have to play stronger players.

And they sometimes conclude that, despite the instruction they are getting and the practice they are doing, they still don't play any better or differently.

It takes a ton of commitment to improve in tennis. I can understand why people decide not to bother, but it makes it hard to find players who will try to improve.

I'm starting up a new 7.5 combo team in the fall. So far, we have no 4.0 players, so it will be tough sledding. I have a few 3.5s who take clinics and do seem to want to improve and are willing to practice. Hopefully, this core group will improve and become the 4.0 players that the team needs.

Cindy,

You're exactly right! The time people would have to invest in improving is considerable. I've been fortunate enough to find guys that have total family involvement in tennis (and other athletic endeavors). Both husband, wife and sometimes the kids play so it's a trade off. There are surprising few guys on the respective teams I prospect for that do not have tennis-playing wives. The remaining guys are single (so-to-speak) so the family commitment isn't really an issue for them

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Yes, but the same can be said of men's 4.5 tennis. No money, no prestige. Yet people will come to blows over it. Level has nothing to do with it.

Either you have to take some crap to avoid defaults, or you have enough people that you don't.

I suppose so. There's no money at the 4.5 level, but a 4.5 is a pretty good player. Not good enough to get a ranking anywhere, though, so probably can't really win prestige. Depends how far we'll take the word "crap". You have to "put up" with people, but people who are repeatedly rude, I'd try to avoid them. Can't stand deliberate rudeness. Maybe this is off topic, but at one time I played several tournaments every year. You can do that on your own. What does someone get out of joining a team? Tennis is an individual sport. The existence of a team doesn't really change that. There seems to be alot of downside, but I can't see the upside.

[Verno Inferno]

Originally Posted by seleswannabe

Afterward, in front of the entire team she laid into me saying that practice is supposed to be about "fun" and that is EXACTLY what she does not like about singles. The kicker was when she said, "you could at least give me a serve I can return". I actually took that as a compliment I apologized and she spat back that she was not looking for an apology. Was I really that much of a "you know what"? After all I am just a 3.0 player, I can't move mountains.

The stuff during the match was just fine, by my book. Maybe you could have handled things differently afterwards. I'm betting she felt like a loser, and she took it out on you. Instead of apologizing (which is sorta patronizing---nobody wants an "I'm sorry" from someone who beat them soundly), I'd suggest, especially since you're the captain, you could have given her pointers on the service return.

"You could at least give me a serve I can return."

"Yikes, I know. I saw you were having trouble with that kick serve. That's why it's my favorite---a lot of people at our level have problems with it. But when you're returning a kick serve, you can do (a), (b) and (c) and it will neutralize it. Let's give it a shot next week. You'll like the results. You have good groundstrokes, so if you can just get these serves back you can work yourself back into any point and you'll probably start breaking more serves."

That's my lame After School Special script. But seriously, something like that probably would have gone better than "I'm sorry that I kicked your butt so soundly."

Good luck, though! I don't have the patience for captaining something like this