The tired excuse isn't valid, Vitas and Lendl played 130+ in a season

[tennis-hero]

Lendl on three seperate years

Vitas had a 130+ wins a season

you can't use the tired excuse with a straight face, unless you're uncle phony

[l_gonzalez]

Different eras mate, you can't compare the intensity of back then to the intensity now.

Overall it's a much stronger field right now so i'm pretty sure those guys had a lot of physically easier matches than the current field have.

[tennis-hero]

Originally Posted by l_gonzalez

Different eras mate, you can't compare the intensity of back then to the intensity now.

Overall it's a much stronger field right now so i'm pretty sure those guys had a lot of physically easier matches than the current field have.

what did you smoke when you wrote that cos i want a tenners bag

in the 70s and 80s IT WAS ALL ABOUT STAMINA

we didn't have the CHEAT raquets that gave you a 100% sweet spot zone

we had 100 shots rallies

you had to be even more physically fit

Borg is 100 times the athlete Nadal is

[maximo]

Originally Posted by tennis-hero

what did you smoke when you wrote that cos i want a tenners bag

in the 70s and 80s IT WAS ALL ABOUT STAMINA

we didn't have the CHEAT raquets that gave you a 100% sweet spot zone

we had 100 shots rallies

you had to be even more physically fit

Borg is 100 times the athlete Nadal is

Troll.

.

.

[Winners or Errors]

Originally Posted by l_gonzalez

Different eras mate, you can't compare the intensity of back then to the intensity now.

Overall it's a much stronger field right now so i'm pretty sure those guys had a lot of physically easier matches than the current field have.

You just opened the can to an endless, impossible to prove, debate. Often, when someone says something like this, the posts quickly go up and the debate becomes heated.

The fact that Lendl could post 130 wins without ever whining that he was tired, which I don't think he ever did, is hardly surprising given his training regimen, which was probably more stringent than Nadal's. I'd be curious to see a comparison, and am sure someone has done one...

That Gerulaitis could do it, with his binge drinking, cheese-burger eating lifestyle is something else, but then Vitas was never really a grinder.

It's not about the fitness. It's about the style. No matter how much Nadal trains or how good his physical condition is, he will invariably get tired because of his style. I don't think there's ever been a more accomplished defensive tennis player. Hopefully, he is planning his schedule in a way that allows him to maintain the highest level at the most important tournaments. If not, it's his own damned fault for playing the way he plays.

I, for one, am sick of people whining about their hero being tired. As a huge Nadal fan, I like to see him play well, but I also recognize that the way he plays has limitations, and exhaustion may very well be one of them.

[l_gonzalez]

actually i was smoking this awesome blend a Jamaican friend of mine gave me... but that's not the point.

what i'm talking about is the gulf in quality between number 1 and 100... the gap was much wider.

100 shot rallies and borg being 100 times fitter are the words ofa fanatic and i can't take you seriously or have a normal discussion with you based on that.

all i was merely trying to say was that in any given tournament back in the day, Lendl or Vitas would have more relatively easy matches in the early rounds than players such as Nadal would do now.

the semis and finals may have been gruelling encounters but before that the gulf in class and quality meant relatively easier matches for the top guys.

[jrachiever]

Lendl

Nadal

These are just the first two videos that popped up. The physical demands are different these days.

I'm a fan of the game of tennis much moreso than of individual players. I watched the Nadal/Djokovic semi, thought it was a great match and couldn't imagine Nadal wouldn't be tired the next day. I watched the Nadal/Federer match and thought Nadal looked tired. I don't why this is so complicated.

[l_gonzalez]

Originally Posted by Winners or Errors

You just opened the can to an endless, impossible to prove, debate. Often, when someone says something like this, the posts quickly go up and the debate becomes heated.

The fact that Lendl could post 130 wins without ever whining that he was tired, which I don't think he ever did, is hardly surprising given his training regimen, which was probably more stringent than Nadal's. I'd be curious to see a comparison, and am sure someone has done one...

That Gerulaitis could do it, with his binge drinking, cheese-burger eating lifestyle is something else, but then Vitas was never really a grinder.

It's not about the fitness. It's about the style. No matter how much Nadal trains or how good his physical condition is, he will invariably get tired because of his style. I don't think there's ever been a more accomplished defensive tennis player. Hopefully, he is planning his schedule in a way that allows him to maintain the highest level at the most important tournaments. If not, it's his own damned fault for playing the way he plays.

I, for one, am sick of people whining about their hero being tired. As a huge Nadal fan, I like to see him play well, but I also recognize that the way he plays has limitations, and exhaustion may very well be one of them.

yeah mate, i know... i'm not about to get involved in some stupidly long and pointless debate like others do, but then again i can't just idly sit by and let ignorant, troll-like comments go unchallenged.

[l_gonzalez]

Originally Posted by jrachiever

Lendl

Nadal

These are just the first two videos that popped up. The physical demands are different these days.

I'm a fan of the game of tennis much moreso than of individual players. I watched the Nadal/Djokovic semi, thought it was a great match and couldn't imagine Nadal wouldn't be tired the next day. I watched the Nadal/Federer match and thought Nadal looked tired. I don't why this is so complicated.

thanks for those videos mate... rallies may have been long but i've got just one word:

Footwork

[Winners or Errors]

Originally Posted by jrachiever

Lendl

Nadal

These are just the first two videos that popped up. The physical demands are different these days.

I'm a fan of the game of tennis much moreso than of individual players. I watched the Nadal/Djokovic semi, thought it was a great match and couldn't imagine Nadal wouldn't be tired the next day. I watched the Nadal/Federer match and thought Nadal looked tired. I don't why this is so complicated.

OK, I watched the videos. If you count the time from the shot coming off the player's racquet to the next ball strike, it is nearly identical between Borg-Lendl and Nadal-Djokovic. Of course, the shots in the Nadal-Djokovic rally were almost all short in comparison, landing around the service line because of the topspin, but to me it just looks like there's more grunting going on, not harder hitting. Someone can be smooth and still hit plenty hard.

Looks like Borg and Lendl both simply were better ball strikers and had smoother strokes. Of course, given the tiny racquets they played with, that may be true on both accounts.

[GasquetGOAT]

Originally Posted by Winners or Errors

OK, I watched the videos. If you count the time from the shot coming off the player's racquet to the next ball strike, it is nearly identical between Borg-Lendl and Nadal-Djokovic. Of course, the shots in the Nadal-Djokovic rally were almost all short in comparison, landing around the service line because of the topspin, but to me it just looks like there's more grunting going on, not harder hitting. Someone can be smooth and still hit plenty hard.

Looks like Borg and Lendl both simply were better ball strikers and had smoother strokes. Of course, given the tiny racquets they played with, that may be true on both accounts.

Great analysis.

I can't believe Nadal is such a wuss compared to the older guys.

Originally Posted by tennis-hero

Lendl on three seperate years

Vitas had a 130+ wins a season

you can't use the tired excuse with a straight face, unless you're uncle phony

yes, but did they play at the altitude?

[S H O W S T O P P E R !]

That was when S&V was the norm. Points only lasted 2-5 shots, while today 5 shots is the norm. Different eras.

[veroniquem]

Lendl and Gerulaitis (unless you meant Vilas?) also had losses in a season. On clay, Lendl was infinitely inferior to Nadal: he has never won more than 2 major clay events in the RG season, Monte-Carlo and Rome in 1988, Hamburg and RG in 1987. Compare that with Nadal winning 2 masters and a slam (3 major events) for (almost) 5 consecutive years.
Lendl lacked Nadal's endurance and stamina to pull off anything even remotely similar to Nadal's prowess on a surface as uniquely demanding as clay.

[akv89]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

Lendl and Gerulaitis (unless you meant Vilas?) also had losses in a season. On clay, Lendl was infinitely inferior to Nadal: he has never won more than 2 major clay events in the RG season, Monte-Carlo and Rome in 1988, Hamburg and RG in 1987. Compare that with Nadal winning 2 masters and a slam (3 major events) for (almost) 5 consecutive years.
Lendl lacked Nadal's endurance and stamina to pull off anything even remotely similar to Nadal's prowess on a surface as uniquely demanding as clay.

Lendl certainly isn't as talented as Nadal, but I think you're seriously underestimating the stamina of Lendl, who is credited with revolutionizing the training regimen of a tennis player.

[FloridaAG]

C'mon - everyone knows that air was much cleaner back then so their lungs were in better shape so they had better endurance and did not get so tired.

Also, due to global warming, it is hotter now so Rafa gets more tired than they did

Also, the surfaces were much different back then - it was like playing in a spa, you could go one forever and never get tired

If they had to play now, they would be very very tired and could never play matches 2 days in a row if one them was a long match. Much too tiring.

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by akv89

Lendl certainly isn't as talented as Nadal, but I think you're seriously underestimating the stamina of Lendl, who is credited with revolutionizing the training regimen of a tennis player.

I forgot to mention scoring Queen's and Wimby in the wake of one of those phenomenal clay court seasons by Nadal, something Lendl wouldn't have been able to do in a million years!
This being said I agree Lendl's fitness was exceptional for his time but I would say Borg's endurance was even more impressive.

[Gasquetrules]

Lendl did win several grasscourt tuneup events before Wimbledon during his career. He was a good grasscourt player. I believe he made a couple of Wimbledon finals, and this was at a time when some of the best grasscourt players of all time (McEnroe, Becker, Edberg) were in their prime.

I actually compare Lendl to Federer. Federer's two biggest shots are his forehand and his serve -- exactly the same combination for Lendl. And both have/had very solid backhands. Lendl was an accomplished clay court player, like Federer, but not a clay court specialist. Both Lendl and Fed are perhaps best on hardcourts and indoors.

But Lendl dominated the 80s more completely than Fed has dominated this decade.

Rallies were not played at quite the pace they are today, but they are much longer. Check out the 82 French final between Borg and Lendl. 50 stroke rallies were the norm, with some going twice that. In the 87 US Open final, Lendl and Wilander played 30 and 40 stroke rallies throughout their long match on the fast US hardcourts. Connors and Borg had grinding rallies on every surface they faced each other.

Regarding the disparity in the quality between the top 100 now and 30 years ago, I'd say Nadal wins his early round matches as convincingly and quickly as Borg or Lendl did. It's rare to find anyone who can average more than two games a set off Nadal on clay.

[ollinger]

It really is a strange thing how we always hear about all the advances made in physical conditionning, yet it was not rare decades ago for baseball pitchers like Satch Paige and numerous others to pitch a complete game, get in the car, drive 300 miles, then pitch another complete game that night. Complete games used to be commonplace, and you had guys like Bob Feller throwing 100 mph. Football players commonly played both ways in the early to mid 20th century. Even tennis players in the early "pro" days in the 50s and 60s would go from city to city and play every night. Has stamina taken such a huge step backwards??

[janipyt05]

you can't major one mans tiredness against another.