Article: More Evidence that Refined Carbs not Fats Threaten the Heart

[snoopy]

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...against-cardio



“If you reduce saturated fat and replace it with high glycemic-index carbohydrates, you may not only not get benefits—you might actually produce harm,” Ludwig argues. The next time you eat a piece of buttered toast, he says, consider that “butter is actually the more healthful component.”

[ollinger]

The data actually suggest that moderation of anything, including refined carbs, is fine. The increased cardiac risk was mainly seen in people who ate so much refined carbs that they developed obesity or diabetes, or both. Cardiac risk of any significance has not been shown in those who don't develop those complications of eating too many carbs of any kind. Carbs can raise triglycerides, but if they don't, you probably need not worry too much.

[charliefedererer]

From the article, one good quote:

"Another issue facing regulatory agencies, notes Harvard’s Stampfer, is that “the sugared beverage industry is lobbying very hard and trying to cast doubt on all these studies.” "
-Really high glycemic means sugary soft drinks, sugar coated cereal and sugary snacks and deserts.

And one not so good quote:
"The next time you eat a piece of buttered toast, he says, consider that “butter is actually the more healthful component.” "
-Whole grain high fiber bread is a "good" food.

[Cindysphinx]

^He must be thinking of Wonderbread.

[OKUSA]

refined carbs have no nutrition, bread? candy? soda? flour? all that stuff is garbage and empty calories

even though I know that they can develop some serious disorders, just looking at the label is enough to tell me that this stuff is worthless for my body

[albino smurf]

Originally Posted by ollinger

The data actually suggest that moderation of anything, including refined carbs, is fine. The increased cardiac risk was mainly seen in people who ate so much refined carbs that they developed obesity or diabetes, or both. Cardiac risk of any significance has not been shown in those who don't develop those complications of eating too many carbs of any kind. Carbs can raise triglycerides, but if they don't, you probably need not worry too much.

Seems to be the case with most foods and other health related issues, eh? Moderation of most things seems to be critical.

[r2473]

“Moderation, which consists in an indifference about little things, and in a prudent and well-proportioned zeal about things of importance, can proceed from nothing but true knowledge, which has its foundation in self-acquaintance.”

[Avles]

Originally Posted by r2473

“Moderation, which consists in an indifference about little things, and in a prudent and well-proportioned zeal about things of importance, can proceed from nothing but true knowledge, which has its foundation in self-acquaintance.”

Nice quote!

Looks like it's misattributed all over the internet, though: lots of pages say it's from Plato, but Google Books says it's by a man named John Mason.

[eeytennis]

i have heard and read that high fructose corn syrup is turned into fat during the digestion process and has been linked to heart disease. Kind of scary considering that so many food contain high fructose corn syrup.

[ollinger]

Well, certainly not during digestion, which is the breakdown and absorption of what you eat. Fructose is actually a more natural type of sugar, commonly found in fruit, than the table sugar you consume, a combination of fructose and glucose. It's not inherently more risky than any other sugar, but consuming lots of it has the same hazards as other sugars, and it is cheaper than table sugar so shows up in more and more products.

[heycal]

Originally Posted by albino smurf

Seems to be the case with most foods and other health related issues, eh? Moderation of most things seems to be critical.

Yup. This is all you really need to know about virtually everything (not that I follow these rules...) Foods, behaviors, etc, and most of them are common sense like carrots are better for you than M and M's and six hours of hard court tennis is too much for an older guy, etc.

That's why I pay no attention to any of these nutrition studies, or the latest fad diet advice. You wanna lose weight? Exercise more and eat less, period. You wanna be healthier? More fruit, less donuts. Next topic!

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by heycal

Yup. This is all you really need to know about virtually everything (not that I follow these rules...) Foods, behaviors, etc, and most of them are common sense like carrots are better for you than M and M's and six hours of hard court tennis is too much for an older guy, etc.

That's why I pay no attention to any of these nutrition studies, or the latest fad diet advice. You wanna lose weight? Exercise more and eat less, period. You wanna be healthier? More fruit, less donuts. Next topic!

If you wanna lose weight, log your diet and count your calories explicitly so you know what you are working with from the start. Everything you are saying is absolutely correct, but it's easier to figure out where a donut or two might fit into your diet if you know how many calories you eat per day and how many you can eat and still lose weight.

[Cindysphinx]

If you want to lose weight, ignore your scale. Just make the healthiest choice available to you at all times. And get lots of regular exercise.

Cindy -- whose pants provide more solid feedback than a scale ever could

[r2473]

With the varying opinions about dieting / weight loss from the above posters, I can see why it is such a big business.

The interesting thing about dieting is how adaptive your body is to any set program you care to follow. To me, this is what makes dieting so difficult for most people.

[Kevin T]

One of my old mentors in grad school was the 'fructose man'. Hardest exams I ever took in my life but I sure do remember a lot of what he said. Studies are inconclusive, as the exact mechanism of metabolism/transport of fructose isn't precisely understood.

Fructose must be converted to glucose by the liver. Virtually every cell in the human body can metabolize glucose but nearly 100% of fructose metabolism occurs in the liver. When we ingest a large amount of fructose, the liver will essentially "drop" everything else and get to work breaking it down. To put it as simply as possible...a good amount of research shows that eating a large amount of fructose leads to 1. increase pyruvate production....which leads to 2. an increase of Krebs cycle intermediates....which leads to 3. increased fatty acid synthesis and triglyceride (fat that circulates in the blood and our bodies store) production.

Modern beverages (sodas, Sunny D, that type of crap) can lead to fructose overload due to high loads of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). As an example, an apple has ~6g fructose, grapes = ~8g, honey is ~50% fructose. The human body's absorption capacity in one "sitting" ranges from 5-50g, ~30g for the average human. HFCS comes as HFCS 42 (42% fructose), HFCS 55 (55% fructose) and HFCS 90 (90%). Most soft drinks use HFCS 55. A typical Coca Cola has 40.5g sugar in a 12oz serving, so using HFCS 55=22.3g of fructose. Who drinks 12oz of Coke these days? No one, as 24oz or greater is the norm. You drink 24oz, you get 44.6g fructose in one shot and that's not counting the candy bar you had with it or the fact that many people drink 2-3 per day. That big Coke just put the majority of people past the fructose threshold and fatty acid synthesis/TG production is in full speed=you're getting fat. Not to mention your insulin is activated for the next few hours, essentially blocking off fat metabolism and ramping up fat storage. Oh, by the way, HFCS is produced by chemical/enzymatic reactions and high levels of mercury and other heavy metals have been found in a number of HFCS products over the years.


The simple advice is...listen to Heycal. Eat less, exercise more, use common sense and don't drink calories. The average person drinks 500-600kcal per day and cutting that out alone would lead to 1 1/4lb of weight loss per week.

[1stVolley]

Originally Posted by charliefedererer

From the article, one good quote:

"Another issue facing regulatory agencies, notes Harvard’s Stampfer, is that “the sugared beverage industry is lobbying very hard and trying to cast doubt on all these studies.” "
-Really high glycemic means sugary soft drinks, sugar coated cereal and sugary snacks and deserts.

And one not so good quote:
"The next time you eat a piece of buttered toast, he says, consider that “butter is actually the more healthful component.” "
-Whole grain high fiber bread is a "good" food.

Actually, there are two misconceptions here. One that I also made until recently is that whole grain breads are healthy. Actually ANY FLOUR-based bread has a high glycemic index. That's because flour is very finely ground grain and this creates a food that's very quickly digested. Fast digestion is what a high glycemic index index. You can ameliorate the effect of flour-based foods by also eating high fiber foods that are NOT flour-based (e.g. walnuts or oatmeal) just before or during that slice of whole wheat bread.

The 2nd misconception is that sugar is a high glycemic food. Actually, it is a moderate glycemic index food, below the index of any flour-based breads. Lots of sugar is bad because it promotes tooth decay and is high calorie.

I'd recommend that anyone concerned about glycemic index issues, esp. diabetics and pre-diabetics, download from the internet an actual glycemic index listing.

[corners]

Originally Posted by charliefedererer

And one not so good quote:
"The next time you eat a piece of buttered toast, he says, consider that “butter is actually the more healthful component.” "
-Whole grain high fiber bread is a "good" food.

Is it, really? Who told you that?

[charliefedererer]

Originally Posted by 1stVolley

Actually, there are two misconceptions here. One that I also made until recently is that whole grain breads are healthy. Actually ANY FLOUR-based bread has a high glycemic index. That's because flour is very finely ground grain and this creates a food that's very quickly digested. Fast digestion is what a high glycemic index index. You can ameliorate the effect of flour-based foods by also eating high fiber foods that are NOT flour-based (e.g. walnuts or oatmeal) just before or during that slice of whole wheat bread.

The 2nd misconception is that sugar is a high glycemic food. Actually, it is a moderate glycemic index food, below the index of any flour-based breads. Lots of sugar is bad because it promotes tooth decay and is high calorie.

I'd recommend that anyone concerned about glycemic index issues, esp. diabetics and pre-diabetics, download from the internet an actual glycemic index listing.

"High GI foods have a glycemic index of more than 70. Low GI foods have a glycemic index of less than 55. Medium GI foods are in between.

Glycemic Index of Breads
inc. Muffins & Cakes
Bagel 72
Blueberry Muffin 59
Croissant 67
Donut 76
Pita Bread 57
Pumpernickel Bread 51
Rye Bread 76
Sour Dough Bread 52
Sponge Cake 46
Stone Ground Whole wheat bread 53
Waffles 76
White Bread 70
Whole Wheat Bread 69"
-http://www.carbs-information.com/glycemic-index-food-chart.htm

"How to Switch to a Low GI Diet
◦Use breakfast cereals based on oats, barley and bran
◦Use breads with wholegrains, stone-ground flour, sour dough
◦Reduce the amount of potatoes you eat
◦Enjoy all other types of fruit and vegetables
◦Use Basmati or Doongara rice
◦Enjoy pasta, noodles, quinoa
◦Eat plenty of salad vegetables with a vinaigrette dressing"
-http://www.glycemicindex.com/

I would definitely agree that consumers need to be very careful on how their food is labled. There are a lot of "whole wheat" breads out there that are not really any better than white bread, while that hearty stone ground whole wheat bread with a glycemic index of 53 sounds pretty good.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

...and don't drink calories. The average person drinks 500-600kcal per day and cutting that out alone would lead to 1 1/4lb of weight loss per week.

#1 easiest and most important move to make for anyone, especially in the US where you see soda on kitchen tables at dinner.

When I reached my fatty most heaviest period at almost 208lbs, the first thing i did was drop all sugar drinks..I had been drinking at least 1-2 snapples or cokes per day, plus OJ in the morning, etc.

Just eliminating that crap I got down to 195.

I occasionally have a soda now and then, but I'm conscious to never have 2 days in a row with a sugar drink. I do put one sugar packet in my coffee in the morning, but that's nothing compared to what's in soft drinks.

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by dman72

#1 easiest and most important move to make for anyone, especially in the US where you see soda on kitchen tables at dinner.

When I reached my fatty most heaviest period at almost 208lbs, the first thing i did was drop all sugar drinks..I had been drinking at least 1-2 snapples or cokes per day, plus OJ in the morning, etc.

Just eliminating that crap I got down to 195.

I occasionally have a soda now and then, but I'm conscious to never have 2 days in a row with a sugar drink. I do put one sugar packet in my coffee in the morning, but that's nothing compared to what's in soft drinks.

Yep. In my practice, I focus on small, gradual changes. If you can change one bad habit per month, and stick with it, I'm happy and you're healthier. First two things on the list are: 1. don't drink calories 2. just do something everyday, walking for 30 minutes/etc. In grad school, I worked with a severely obese (~600#) dude who drank 10 Mountain Dew sodas every day. He was a really cranky dude and basicaly refused every suggestion. I was finally able to get him to change to 10 Diet Dews/day and he lost 150# in 6 months. No exercise, no diet changes, just Diet Dew. True story.