was ivan lendl ACTUALLY considered a bad guy back in the day?

[swedechris]

Originally Posted by CyBorg

Lendl was very insecure when he was young. There was the culture shock, the language issue and he also grew up in a very strict household - the media didn't really grow fond of him.

Lendl was, however, always very intelligent and funny and gradually grew more comfortable, but didn't use these skills to endear himself to the media.

Well put.. he became a symbol for all that commies stuff and seems quite undeserved.

[Borgforever]

Okey -- I've talked to Ivan a few times and he's very easy going and has great (if pitch-black) sense of humor.

Borg has only good things to say about Ivan and don't blame him for some mistakes he made. He didn't know a lot (coming from a world very different from the pro tennis-scene) and met with a lot of biased and unfair hostility which had nothing to do with him as person. His reactions sometimes had good reasons. I won't detail some of the things I heard.

Remember Ivan had Tony Roche as coach, and Tony's a swell, easy-going fella and he wouldn't stayed with Ivan if he was that "cold-mean-grey-boring-type" that media latched on to from the start. Media loves mania, hysterics in search of selling copy and more often than not act as the demagogue...

That doesn't mean he's perfect -- who is? I don't know any who is...

Ivan also has a very healthy disinterest for popularity. FiveO's comments on this are -- as always -- dead on.

[Borgforever]

Originally Posted by rod99

anyone have any pics of lendl from very early in his career? the earliest i can find is the '81 french open.

Hey Rod!

Check out this jewel -- this is Adriano Panatta against baby-Lendl in Davis Cup 1979. Amazingly cool stuff. You can see the his awesome forehand even here.

This is the earliest footage of Ivan I know available and treat to watch. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXjsi5L0_jc

[rod99]

Originally Posted by Borgforever

Hey Rod!

Check out this jewel -- this is Adriano Panatta against baby-Lendl in Davis Cup 1979. Amazingly cool stuff. You can see the his awesome forehand even here.

This is the earliest footage of Ivan I know available and treat to watch. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXjsi5L0_jc

that's interesting b/c the ATP website says that lendl and panatta only played 3 times, all in Barcelona (1979, 1980, and 1981). this match does appear to be a davis cup match though since there are coaches on the sidelines. i wonder why the atp site doesn't have this match on record (it does have davis cup matches in players' records)?

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by pmerk34

LOL. Darlings? There were probably more negative stories written about those two jerks than positive.

Lendl wasn't a nice guy and he was handcuffed by what he could say in the media by the communist authorities who threatened to take away his passport thus ending his career.

Yup! Perhaps "darlings" is the wrong term. I'd have to say "heroes", and I use it in the same context as: "pro-wrestlers are 'heroes'."

Negative on Connors and Mac? Sure, if you can call "these guys are jerks, but they're our jerks...USA all the way!", negative.

Sports Illustrated was the worst offender of all! Look up the SI covers and ink devoted to Connors and Mac, and compare to what SI gave Lendl.

[Z-Man]

I don't think Americans disliked him. I didn't. I liked how cool and in control of himself he always seemed. As a kid playing tournaments, I always tried to be super-stoic like Lendl to rattle my opponents.

[Tshooter]

"The US Open crowd didn't seem to like him, probably because he was facing McEnroe and Connors. "

That's one theory except the USO crowd couldn't stand Connors until later in his career, when he changed his behavior (and also started sucking up to the crowd). And they couldn't stand JMac throughout his career.

There was no particular animosity toward Lendl but he never cracked a smile and he simply didn't engage the crowds imagination like a Borg.

[FedFan_2009]

I like that video where Lendl nails McEnroe in the chest and Mac goes down like a drama queen. The crowd boos Lendl - he doesn't give a ****.

[vive le beau jeu !]

Originally Posted by Borgforever

Hey Rod!

Check out this jewel -- this is Adriano Panatta against baby-Lendl in Davis Cup 1979. Amazingly cool stuff. You can see the his awesome forehand even here.

This is the earliest footage of Ivan I know available and treat to watch. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXjsi5L0_jc

Originally Posted by rod99

that's interesting b/c the ATP website says that lendl and panatta only played 3 times, all in Barcelona (1979, 1980, and 1981). this match does appear to be a davis cup match though since there are coaches on the sidelines. i wonder why the atp site doesn't have this match on record (it does have davis cup matches in players' records)?

i think it's because it was a zonal tie...
http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player...layer=10000792
nowadays you even have group I/II (not III, at least until recently) matches in players' activities but i guess it's not the case (not yet ?) for old results like this.

by the way, this makes me think about how was davis cup working before the group I/II/III (and now IV) system. does anybody know more about it ? you can see some surprising things in past DC results (cf this old thread):

Originally Posted by vive le beau jeu !

i always supposed he didn't like so much the "team thing"... but i guess we will have some better explanations from some posters !

by the way, i was surprised to see that USA lost to mexico twice in 1975 !
(once in USA, once in mexico... with connors)
both countries weren't in the world group... but how was it working in that time ? (in this "america group", they were systematically playing 2 ties in each country ?)

coming back to lendl/panatta...... a double donut ?
even for a young lendl, it still surprises me !
but he was going to generously give back many of them to numerous opponents during his long career...

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by Tshooter

"The US Open crowd didn't seem to like him, probably because he was facing McEnroe and Connors. "

That's one theory except the USO crowd couldn't stand Connors until later in his career, when he changed his behavior (and also started sucking up to the crowd). And they couldn't stand JMac throughout his career.

There was no particular animosity toward Lendl but he never cracked a smile and he simply didn't engage the crowds imagination like a Borg.

Indeed. There was more to it than many of the simplistic portrayals here. In fact, Lendl was not well liked in the locker-room because....quite simply, he was poorly socialized. Bizarre sense of humour, bullying of lesser players...basically, I believe he had some serious self-esteem issues, and he'd also overcompensate for that with arrogance. Not suprising given the environment he had to grow up. It took a long time for him to find his way out of that. Furthermore, he created a very antagonistic relationship with the press. Since, they didn't like him, it wasn't suprising that the stories about him were not too favorable. (IT WASN'T an "American" thing, as some simplistically portray here. The American media wasn't exactly kind to Mcenroe or Connors until later in their career..and other players, for example Borg, were hardly treated badly by the American media...in fact, all the players, as a whole, get worse treatment from some European media).

So, early on, you had a person who disliked the media and made no secret of it, looked and acted like a robot on court, except for displays of NEGATIVE emotion, choked in finals, had Mcenroe and Connors making fun of him, physically looked harsh, unpopular among the players, arrogant in the locker room...yes, he came across as a bit of a villain. Mostly, he was just a scared young man, trying to hide it behind a mask of sterness and a scowl.

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by CyBorg

Lendl was very insecure when he was young. There was the culture shock, the language issue and he also grew up in a very strict household - the media didn't really grow fond of him.

Lendl was, however, always very intelligent and funny and gradually grew more comfortable, but didn't use these skills to endear himself to the media.

Yes, this was a big part of it.

[FedFan_2009]

I think Lendl probably enjoyed playing that part of "the villain". He certainly didn't give a frak what anyone thought about him. 19 GS finals, 8 GS titles speak volumes.

[pmerk34]

Originally Posted by FedFan_2009

I think Lendl probably enjoyed playing that part of "the villain". He certainly didn't give a frak what anyone thought about him. 19 GS finals, 8 GS titles speak volumes.

And 5 masters.

[FedFan_2009]

* 8 straight US Open finals.
* 10 straight Masters finals.
* made at least GS finals in all 4, only Agassi and Federer have done it since

[pmerk34]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Indeed. There was more to it than many of the simplistic portrayals here. In fact, Lendl was not well liked in the locker-room because....quite simply, he was poorly socialized. Bizarre sense of humour, bullying of lesser players...basically, I believe he had some serious self-esteem issues, and he'd also overcompensate for that with arrogance. Not suprising given the environment he had to grow up. It took a long time for him to find his way out of that. Furthermore, he created a very antagonistic relationship with the press. Since, they didn't like him, it wasn't suprising that the stories about him were not too favorable. (IT WASN'T an "American" thing, as some simplistically portray here. The American media wasn't exactly kind to Mcenroe or Connors until later in their career..and other players, for example Borg, were hardly treated badly by the American media...in fact, all the players, as a whole, get worse treatment from some European media).

So, early on, you had a person who disliked the media and made no secret of it, looked and acted like a robot on court, except for displays of NEGATIVE emotion, choked in finals, had Mcenroe and Connors making fun of him, physically looked harsh, unpopular among the players, arrogant in the locker room...yes, he came across as a bit of a villain. Mostly, he was just a scared young man, trying to hide it behind a mask of sterness and a scowl.

Great post.

[Don S]

When I think of Ivan Lendl, one word comes to mind - Sawdust! lol

[David_86]

I can't remember Lendl ever refusing to shake an umpire's hand at the end of a match, no matter how much he was complaining during it, such as Australian Open 85 against Edberg.

Still, I wouldn't blame him if he did refuse in that case. That umpire loved the sound of his own voice. Even when he was talking one-on-one with Lendl he was using the microphone. And what kind of umpire uses phrases like "it was well long".

[suwanee4712]

Originally Posted by AndrewD

Problem was the the tennis and sporting press was dominated by a country, America, whose fear of anything with even the slightest connection to communism meant they couldn't write without unhealthy bias. Lendl was an easy target. They led people to believe that he was a communist, instead of coming from a country that had been invaded and annexed by Russia. They allowed simpletons like John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors to call him a communist and not challenge their ignorance. They allowed their 'America first, last and always' mentality to cloud their judgement of him as a player and as a person. Naturally enough, Lendl wouldn't cooperate with the press which meant he wasn't able to defend himself.

Funny thing is, Lendl was popular here in Australia whereas Connors and McEnroe weren't. No-one ever thought of Lendl as a warm kind of bloke or that he played an exciting game but no-one disliked him they way they did with Jimmy and John.

As an American that loves his country, I absolutely agree with this. I have collected tennis mags, books, and commentaries from other countries, and I have come to the conclusion that the American tennis media was horrible. It's shameful propaganda in some cases. The kind of unrealistic journalism that we had taught to expect to find in Pravda.

To hear even Chris Evert talk about Fed Cup 86 in Prague, it's so twisted. When you actually watch Martina play Hana, it does not unfold in the manner in which we were told that it did.

For one thing, Hana defied officials and risked serious trouble by introducing Martina by her name in her address in both Czech and English during the opening ceremonies. You didn't read about that in Tennis magazine or hear about that from American commentators. All you heard about was this USA vs. Communism build up for the entire week. In fact, what was the big news item in the American press about Hana that week? Cindy Schmerler, amongst others, wrote that Hana was jealous of the media attention that Martina was receiveing and decided to get married to gain attention. Unbelievable........

Though Hana says in her book that she was disappointed by the fairness of the crowd in their cheering, when you watch the match, the only times the Czechs do their national clapping cheer was in Hana's behalf when she was down break point at 5-6 in the first set and again midway through the 2nd when they were trying to cheer her back into the match.

The Czechs, as a team and as fans, were wonderful towards Martina, as well as Chris whom they showed a lot of affection for. Hana even made the comment that she was so glad that Chris had come to Prague. Because she hoped that they would gain a better understanding of each other. Not only did Martina thank Hana for her kindness, but Chris and Hana gained a new respect for one another based on Hana's actions that week. More than anything, the Czechs exuded the kind of fairness and appreciation without politics that our own media could not produce. When I read the shoddy job that people like Peter Bodo, Cindy Schmerler, et al did in covering that event, I'm actually embarrassed as an American. Because their work was worthy of the same kind of biased and propagandized inaccuracies that we often accused Czechs, Romanians, and Russians of doing.

It made me change some opinions that I had of Mandlikova, Lendl, and others from behind the Iron Curtain. These are people that they often baited, taking advantage of their lack of understanding of English, to get them to say things and then take them out of context. Because when someone like Hana played against Chris America, that made for great press.

That's not to excuse boorish behavior by Mandlikova, Lendl, and others that truly had a chip on their shoulder. But now I can look back and see why they sometimes had that chip. Why on Earth would they trust American media? They often assumed the worst, and with at least some good reason.

When you read European, Japanese, and Australian accounts of the exact same events, Hana comes out looking a lot more civil. And there's no surprise in why Hana chose Australia as the place where she wanted to take out citizenship. She was one of the 2 or 3 most popular non-Australian female tennis players of the 80's in that country. She was often villianized here. Though she and Lendl both behaved rather poorly at times. However, at some point, you see people simply giving others what they wish to see. But it's hard to accept when you see the same American media going out of their way to forgive Americans like Mac and Connors for what they did and said. There was a definite double standard to say the least.

[Doulers]

Originally Posted by d-quik

i mean the guy is methodical, yes, as per old school baseliners should be. but on the boards i have seen words like EVIL used to this guy. why was this? is it because he came from a communist country at the time and fufilling the western world's stereotype of the soviet "robot" type athlete?

In my view, Lendl was very unfairly treated by the media, particularly in the United States. There was, of course, the fact that he was from a communist country at that time. American's probably likened him to the "Drago" character from Rocky IV. So being from a communist country did not help him to be accepted at all by Americans. He was also something of a victim of the era he played in because in the United States, fans love athletes with personality, flare, and "color" (e.g., McEnroe, Connors, Agassi). With American tennis players like that to support and cheer for, Lend's stoic character was never destined to be accepted well by Americans. You might remember the September 1986 Sports Illustrated cover that had a picture of Lendl and said "The Champion That Nobody Cares About." And that was right after Lendl won the US Open for the second consecutive time I think. However, I think that cover summed up his status in the eyes of American fans.

Here is a link to that cover: http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedi...ivan-lendl.jpg

As another example, Tennis Channel keeps talking about and/or showing that clip of Michael Chang doing that dink serve to Lendl in the 1989 French Open. A recent Tennis magazine also had an article on that one match. Of course, Americans love it because it is about an American making a "fool" of Lendl. However, does anyone ever talk about when Lendl did the same thing to Mcenroe. Search lendl on google video and you should find a clip of him doing a similar dink serve to Mcenroe sometime in the early eighties and I believe McEnroe still has his wooden Dunlop.

Unfortunately, I don't think in the United States tennis professionals are judged enough on their merits at times. Lendl was one of my favorite players growing up in the eighties as a teenager. I also loved Mcenroe even though they were very different players and I think hated each other. However, I actually met Lendl once and got a chance to hit with him. He was a very nice guy. More importantly, I believe that if you had to pick one player who you could point to and say "he played a huge role in ushering in the modern era of tennis" it is Lendl. In the late seventies and early eighties, he ushered in the "power" game of tennis as he was one of the first top pros to use a graphite racquet and hit blistering groundstrokes and have a big serve. He would win virtually all the tour tournaments he played in except it took him a couple years to finally win his first slam. He was also one of the first to really bring off-court training to a different level (kind of like Martina did on the women's side). His conditioning was superior to everyone's. Prior to him, the game was not played quite the same way with pros still using wooden racquets and relying more on finesse and strategy to win points. He came out blasting which is much closer to what the pro level game is like now. It is unfortunate that he is not given enough credit for what he accomplished during his career and the significance of his place in the history of the game.

[spiderman123]

I remember reading somewhere that when some player announced the birth of his daughter in the locker room, Lendl had asked him if he was not man enough to father a son.

Ivan Lendl has five children, all daughters.