Serve speed cage

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by r2473

Do you foot fault or do you start a few inches behind the baseline on your serve?

Not trying to be a wise guy. I have that same little movement with my front foot as well. Just an inch or maybe two.

I didn't realize that it had snuck into my motion I did my damndest to totally stamp it out.

I think I have it squashed again as it is a really terrible thing for your consistency, but I start a couple inches behind the line anyway just to be sure that I don't cross it.

J

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

OH SEE, here, we go. I was about to say "ok, sure, I'll check it out", then you pull this attitude. Everyone knows here who is the clueless hack. AGAIN, you can't even hit the back fence consistently with your flat serve and THINK you can hit winners just like the pros, EXCEPT, gee whiz, your opponents return them. Yet, I'M the clueless one.

UNREAL.

Yes, I have the attitude! You like to draw alot of conclusions, don't you? Where did I say I cannot hit the back fence consistently? "Usually" means more often than not, which means consistently. And clearly you don't understand the point of my other thread regarding hitting winners. Maybe you should read more into the discussion than just the first post and you will better see what I'm trying to say.

I have a quest for knowledge about this game and you have a quest for bringing people down. You sound like a real winner to me.

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Ultra2HolyGrail

Come to MN with 1k. What's the problem?

The problem is that you made a bet, and you lost the bet.

Now is when you pay.

You owe me $20.

Lets have it.

J

[5263]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

The problem is that you made a bet, and you lost the bet.

Now is when you pay.

You owe me $20.

Lets have it.

J

Jolly, where was the radar gun when you measured a 70 mph serve hitting the back fence or are you just estimating?

[Steady Eddy]

Originally Posted by 5263

Jolly, where was the radar gun when you measured a 70 mph serve hitting the back fence or are you just estimating?

When I brought my radar gun to my doubles foursome, only one could hit the back fence with his serve and it registered something in the 70's. I stood with my back to the fence at the time I zapped it.

[fruitytennis1]

Just asking what does moving your foot up do???
I guess I move my left foot up about an inch when serving, is that bad???

[mtommer]

Originally Posted by 5263

Jolly, where was the radar gun when you measured a 70 mph serve hitting the back fence or are you just estimating?

For the record I watched almost 10 top juniors today hitting some warm-up serves that registered low/mid sixties (the guns today were about 7-10 mph slow) constantly hitting the back fence. Many of those serves had some nice top spin on them and those hit higher than the the flat serves although admittedly the flatter ones barely hit the fence before the second bounce and most fell short of the fence. Still, it just goes to show how much spin has to do with height as opposed to speed. Put the two in combination together and that's when you see those really high balls on the fence.

[drakulie]

^^^how far do you estimate the back fence is from the baseline??

[magmasilk]

an interesting point of reference ...

at legg mason, after the roddick-querry match they had a speed serving competition on the center court with some VA USTA players (they won some kind of entry competiton). I found this interesting because they used the exact same speed gun that was used for the match. I always wonder how the setup of the speed cages and personal speed guns affects the results so this is nice controlled situation to compare pros and ams.

3.5 overweight taller guy in 40's pancaked the ball and got 88
3.5ish (not specifically said) ... smaller/shorter, late 20's with a puredrive hit 99
lanky taller kid in early 20's, with pretty good form hit 115

older women with no form hit 66
4.0 woman i forget exactly but something like 70-80

overall my conclusion bases of the match results (query/hewitt second serve in the 90's) and the serving competition is that it is not all too hard to get 100. In the course or usta 3.5 dbls (1st line so plenty of these players play up/ get bumped up) there a number of players that hit over 100 and most good flat serves in the 90's.

p.s. the difference from 115 and 130 qualitatively seems greater than 15 mph

p.p.s those 60ish mph serves i think bounced twice before the baseline

[5263]

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

When I brought my radar gun to my doubles foursome, only one could hit the back fence with his serve and it registered something in the 70's. I stood with my back to the fence at the time I zapped it.

From what you say here, it appears you were on the side of the net where the balls were landing correct? and your back was close to the fence or just towards it?
If you were near the fence on the landing side and recorded a 70, this would easily be 100+ the way the pro serve are measured, which is almost immed after the ball leaves the racket at it's highest velocity. It slows drasticly from there and is only about half the speed upon reaching the returner at the baseline.
The post above about the pro court mph readings at the contest gives a good account IMO.

[5263]

Originally Posted by mtommer

For the record I watched almost 10 top juniors today hitting some warm-up serves that registered low/mid sixties (the guns today were about 7-10 mph slow) constantly hitting the back fence. Many of those serves had some nice top spin on them and those hit higher than the the flat serves although admittedly the flatter ones barely hit the fence before the second bounce and most fell short of the fence. Still, it just goes to show how much spin has to do with height as opposed to speed. Put the two in combination together and that's when you see those really high balls on the fence.

I don't see how this is consistent with your other post on the subject in the other thread where the serves were all over 100 with some barely reaching the fence.

[NamRanger]

If you're serving 100 you're hitting the back fence in no time. I have a friend that cranks 90+ on his kick serve (plays for Baylor) and that thing is absolutely scary when it bounces.

[mtommer]

Originally Posted by drakulie

^^^how far do you estimate the back fence is from the baseline??

Rough estimate I would say 15-20 feet. I'll get a better gauge tomorrow as long as it doesn't rain like it's supposed to. As far as I know K's courts are pro regulation (if there is one). This video might (http://www.vimeo.com/5055944) give you some idea though the depth perception of any camera video is hard to tell by I guess. The camera is about a foot away (tripod legs about an inch away) from the fence. There's a serve video and my wall hitting video that I posted awhile ago too that may give you an idea.

[mtommer]

Originally Posted by 5263

I don't see how this is consistent with your other post on the subject in the other thread where the serves were all over 100 with some barely reaching the fence.

And yet it is what it is. I don't mean that flippantly. I merely post about what I see. You have to understand that with hard flat serves the ball can slide moreso sometimes than top spin serves and that's going to affect outgoing trajectory. Also remember, with the slow speed, like I said, many were not hitting the fence. I merely mentioned that SOME, a few, were. The numbers on the gun were what they were. The resulting balls into the fence were what they were. Understand too that it's not like there weren't balls that were going higher on the fence with the harder serves. It just happened that I decided to take "official" notice for a few balls because of the thread and I reported what I saw. It's just a small sampling. Obviously it's not exact placement but I think it's pretty close.

EDIT: I would also add that it depends on the spins. I know when I serve I sometimes get side spin instead of top spin and I think that might take away from the bounce distance (as more energy in the ball gets used for the spin but the spin doesn't cause a higher bounce like topspin). Just a thought.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

The problem is that you made a bet, and you lost the bet.

Now is when you pay.

You owe me $20.

Lets have it.

J

Why concerned over lunch money? Come get 1k. Come get some pirate, or are you a bloody scallywag?

Vimeo vids arent working here.


Btw, hit some against the wall tonight, hit a few serves on court and put one through the fence and out in the street into the gutter, different fences have bigger holes, some fences there is no way you can put a ball through..

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by Ultra2HolyGrail

Why concerned over lunch money?

It is a matter of character.

Pay.

I can have my mother call you up and explain this to you if you would like.

She is a very nice lady and explained very clearly why it is important to live up to your end of bargains many years ago to me.

You ran your mouth, you lost.

Now pay.

J

[J011yroger]

Originally Posted by 5263

Jolly, where was the radar gun when you measured a 70 mph serve hitting the back fence or are you just estimating?

Just estimating, but I can do an experiment.

Serves may be faster or slower, but 70ish seems about right.

Usually I put the radar right at the net, and figure it looses about 10%.

J

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by magmasilk

an interesting point of reference ...

at legg mason, after the roddick-querry match they had a speed serving competition on the center court with some VA USTA players (they won some kind of entry competiton). I found this interesting because they used the exact same speed gun that was used for the match. I always wonder how the setup of the speed cages and personal speed guns affects the results so this is nice controlled situation to compare pros and ams.

3.5 overweight taller guy in 40's pancaked the ball and got 88
3.5ish (not specifically said) ... smaller/shorter, late 20's with a puredrive hit 99
lanky taller kid in early 20's, with pretty good form hit 115

older women with no form hit 66
4.0 woman i forget exactly but something like 70-80

overall my conclusion bases of the match results (query/hewitt second serve in the 90's) and the serving competition is that it is not all too hard to get 100. In the course or usta 3.5 dbls (1st line so plenty of these players play up/ get bumped up) there a number of players that hit over 100 and most good flat serves in the 90's.

p.s. the difference from 115 and 130 qualitatively seems greater than 15 mph

p.p.s those 60ish mph serves i think bounced twice before the baseline

Interesting read.

[aptennis91]

Jolly, your serve reminds me of Safin for some reason..
Maybe the clothes, but the trophy pose is similar..

[5263]

Originally Posted by J011yroger

Just estimating, but I can do an experiment.

Serves may be faster or slower, but 70ish seems about right.

Usually I put the radar right at the net, and figure it looses about 10%.

J

If you get a chance, I'd like to hear what you find, even though I'm pretty sure the ball has lost more than 10% by the net area, especially if you are using an older speedtrac. I've seen the graph where the speed is noted along the path of the normal 1st serve. While there is a pretty big loss on the bounce, some of the quickest losses are right after impact where wind resistance is at it's greatest. Like in bike riding, wind resistance is very little factor up to 17-19 mph, but starts to make an extreme impact around 21-22mph and is nearly overwhelming in the high 20s and up.

also setting a speed trac on the ground near the net pretty much assures that you don't get the direct measure that most of speedtrac radars require. It is quite amazing how challenging it is to get it set up for good capture. Unlike accounting for decelleration of the ball, there is no good way to account for losses due to ball angles relative to the radar.

I think a guy like you hitting in the 120 range, can be shocked how easy it is for you to hit serves 95-100mph.

(note-this is not about special spin serves like the kick, as there is no rule of thumb in this case)