Vic Braden Update

[papa]

Originally Posted by smoothtennis

Yeah, this is true - but I rotate my body first by tracking up with the elbow to the ball, then I extend to point at the ball, and body stays coiled and you get the benefits of both.

Pointing immediately at an overhead does typically lock the body from a good coiled rotation.

EDIT - However, I will experiment with keeping the hand on the racket longer, and not pointing. I never liked the finger in the way of the ball come to think of it!

Yeah, the only problem I see with the elbow is that the hand often get right into the face - certainly within the feel of vision. This "could" effect the stroke. Having a two-stage approach seems to over-complicate things but it sounds like it works for you.

[gzhpcu]

Originally Posted by equinox

i'll assume since this thread has been revived. that good old vic has passed away. he'll be missed by many and his contribution should be recognised by entrance to tennis coaching hall of fame, a true legend of the courts.

Vic Braden has not passed away...

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by equinox

i'll assume since this thread has been revived. that good old vic has passed away. he'll be missed by many and his contribution should be recognised by entrance to tennis coaching hall of fame, a true legend of the courts.

People can be killed by just reviving some threads about them? Sort of like a web version of voodoo?

[equinox]

Originally Posted by sureshs

People can be killed by just reviving some threads about them? Sort of like a web version of voodoo?

re: kimbo slice is dead.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by film1

Did any of you instructors from there use this pressure plate or scale.
This never made sense to me and perhaps I am missing something but I don't see how a reading from a plate like this would be able to measure the force put into a serve.
I could see it being used to test some things but not force behind a serve because of the other variables.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42STJgl2K4E

An interesting aside (to me) is that Roscoe landed on his left (or back) foot in that video - the way Boris Becker did - and the way many platform tennis players do. (I don't care for the game (platform), myself, as bouncing an overhead over the fence not only loses the point, but you have to go chase the dern ball yourself). All the guys I know who play both "paddle" - as they are wont to call it - and tennis also land on their back foot when serving in tennis. Some of the reason seems to be that their caged game is always played as serve and volley, plus by landing further into the court, one significantly (I think) enlarges the window through which one can pass the ball, and land his first (and only) serve into the service box. I *think* the court is exactly half the dimensions of a tennis court. I've also wondered if some of that comes from the olden days when one, by rule, had to keep one foot on the ground when serving. I only know "old" paddle players. We're infested with retired yankees down here. I don't know when the rule change was, but I seem to recall hearing that Pancho Gonzalez could really rip it in spite of having to keep one foot on the ground. But, I came into tennis *after* white tennis balls.

Anyway, when checking my "Flickr" stats today, I noticed that this photo had been "viewed" a couple of times. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/4327116837/ I then noticed that it looks like Roscoe has changed his serve footwork to the more usual version of landing on one's front foot, and then remembered this thread.

I happened across this thread the other day (and spent a *lot* of time reading through it). Learned a *lot* about teaching tennis in the US. Also learnt that David Smith is someone whom I'd love to get to know better, and who I would like to learn to debate like when I grow up - a logical, rational, gentleman. (Logical fallacies is (are?) one of my hobbies).

I jumped on the thread when I saw Vic Braden's name. When I was getting into tennis in the late 70's and early 80's, Vic's "scientific" approach *really* appealed to me. My natural inclination is to over-analyze - which actually seems to me to be just the right amount of analysis. The fact that it seems to **** a lot of folks off is just an added bonus. I practically memorized his book and videos. I just *loved* the guy - except for the way he pronounced "backhand". It's great to hear that he's still going strong at 79.

However, when I was trying to learn to hit a topspin forehand, I managed to mix parts of what I read in his book with what I was told by multiple teaching pro's over the years. I never did get it right. Well, I think I understand it pretty well today, but I'm long past being able to utilize the knowledge. The wrist is toast. Can't do a double bend if you can't "extend" yer wrist - and you can't extend yer wrist if yer wearing a brace with a piece of metal in it (and it makes you see stars if it *does* get forced back a little). Some of my Vic-related "over-analysis* can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7600094800395/

On that Flickr "stats" thing, this (somewhat tennis-related) "set" from Key Biscayne gets infinitely more looks than any other of mine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7594094698519/ And, with my new Digital Rebel that has video and is capable of an ISO of 6400, I hope to do more with, and improve upon, this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7623006415375/

I just joined tennisone (based on reading David Smith in this thread). Anybody have any insights on that video software that they offer via their membership? TIA

Kevin Scrooge
Savannah

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by mntlblok

And, with my new Digital Rebel that has video and is capable of an ISO of 6400, I hope to do more with, and improve upon, this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7623006415375/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7625501192521/ Here's the latest effort, warts and all. . . I'll start a new thread on it and brace for abuse. Oops. Those are stills. Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIO4dbUkf6I

Kevin

[onehandbh]

Originally Posted by mntlblok

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7625501192521/ Here's the latest effort, warts and all. . . I'll start a new thread on it and brace for abuse. Oops. Those are stills. Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIO4dbUkf6I

Kevin

Interesting. I think I'll try the same thing w/my DSLR.

[julian]

[quote=mntlblok;5275241]An interesting aside (to me) is that Roscoe landed on his left (or back) foot in that video - the way Boris Becker did - and the way many platform tennis players do. (I don't care for the game (platform), myself, as bouncing an overhead over the fence not only loses the point, but you have to go chase the dern ball yourself). All the guys I know who play both "paddle" - as they are wont to call it - and tennis also land on their back foot when serving in tennis. Some of the reason seems to be that their caged game is always played as serve and volley, plus by landing further into the court, one significantly (I think) enlarges the window through which one can pass the ball, and land his first (and only) serve into the service box. I *think* the court is exactly half the dimensions of a tennis court. I've also wondered if some of that comes from the olden days when one, by rule, had to keep one foot on the ground when serving. I only know "old" paddle players. We're infested with retired yankees down here. I don't know when the rule change was, but I seem to recall hearing that Pancho Gonzalez could really rip it in spite of having to keep one foot on the ground. But, I came into tennis *after* white tennis balls.

Anyway, when checking my "Flickr" stats today, I noticed that this photo had been "viewed" a couple of times. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalblock/4327116837/ I then noticed that it looks like Roscoe has changed his serve footwork to the more usual version of landing on one's front foot, and then remembered this thread.

I happened across this thread the other day (and spent a *lot* of time reading through it). Learned a *lot* about teaching tennis in the US. Also learnt that David Smith is someone whom I'd love to get to know better, and who I would like to learn to debate like when I grow up - a logical, rational, gentleman. (Logical fallacies is (are?) one of my hobbies).

I jumped on the thread when I saw Vic Braden's name. When I was getting into tennis in the late 70's and early 80's, Vic's "scientific" approach *really* appealed to me. My natural inclination is to over-analyze - which actually seems to me to be just the right amount of analysis. The fact that it seems to **** a lot of folks off is just an added bonus. I practically memorized his book and videos. I just *loved* the guy - except for the way he pronounced "backhand". It's great to hear that he's still going strong at 79.

However, when I was trying to learn to hit a topspin forehand, I managed to mix parts of what I read in his book with what I was told by multiple teaching pro's over the years. I never did get it right. Well, I think I understand it pretty well today, but I'm long past being able to utilize the knowledge. The wrist is toast. Can't do a double bend if you can't "extend" yer wrist - and you can't extend yer wrist if yer wearing a brace with a piece of metal in it (and it makes you see stars if it *does* get forced back a little). Some of my Vic-related "over-analysis* can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7600094800395/

On that Flickr "stats" thing, this (somewhat tennis-related) "set" from Key Biscayne gets infinitely more looks than any other of mine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7594094698519/ And, with my new Digital Rebel that has video and is capable of an ISO of 6400, I hope to do more with, and improve upon, this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mentalb...7623006415375/

I just joined tennisone (based on reading David Smith in this thread). Anybody have any insights on that video software that they offer via their membership? TIA

Kevin Scrooge
-----> a post by Julian
FYI: A video by Braden about a serve by Roddick was produced sometime ago by tennisone

[TennisCJC]

I like Vic and Oscar's techniques. Been playing 30+ years and currently play 4.5 give or take a bit. Play 500 ball at 5.0 when younger, much younger.

Vic Likes:
1. low ball toss on serve
2. shoulder rotation on serve; still think shoulder rotation is better than deep knee bend for power. Almost every pro has their back to the net before uncoiling up and into the serve.
3. use kenitic chain on serve and topspin ground strokes. Federer's forehand swing is in perfect unison - his hips, shoulders uncoil whipping the arm up and thru the ball

Oscar Likes:
1. simplify the strokes: catch and hit is a good concept; get away from long backswings; Agassi busted it a ton and had practically no backswing - just pivot, move to it, and uncoil
2. late start of swing: pros move to the ball and then uncoil and hit around or after the bounce in front of them

The only thing I can criticize is Oscar's original book didn't stress the shoulder turn. Maybe he thinks it will happen naturally. But, every pro coils their shoulders on ground strokes unless they are just late and scampering to block it back. I think coiling the shoulders regardless of stance (open, closed, or square) should be taught as it is critical to power, control and spin.